121 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

Daeion wrote...

Yes, it is a lore thing for me, it doesn't make sense for the universe imo.  If a hybrid system is pointless because I don't need the ammo, then a clip system is pointless because I never ran out of ammo either.  To me if you are going to impliment an ammo system, then you need to make it count for more then it did in ME2.

You still have to stop shooting at some point to reload.  You can't just spray forever.  You can't just throw bullets away either, as you will eventually run out if you're being dumb.  In ME1, you were capable of running down a hallway with the trigger held down, never having to stop.  With the weapon skills in ME1, you would be able to run straight down the hall, never moving your crosshair, and you would kill everything at the other side.  It was broken. 

They made the combat more invovled, more tactical than "hold right trigger, win", and penalized you for missing with Snipers, Heavy Pistols, and Shotguns.  It's a game mechanic choice that they tried to justify with in-game lore.  Some people buy it, obviously some don't, and then there's the vast majority that don't care.  All comments like your last line will do, is make sure we have less ammo available in ME3.  Personally, I won't care, but some people might.

[CmdrFenix83]

Daeion wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Except when you load in, Shepard couldn't even hit Sovereign on the back if he was fliyng in front of him, despite being a graduate of the N7 program.  He also wielded a sniper rifle as though he spent 5 minutes chugging Red Bulls before touching down on Eden Prime. 

This is a seasoned soldier, not some rookie fresh out of boot.  He should be able to hit a target in front of him without needing to shoot 6+ times.  If you got to choose proficiencies in ME2, that would be fine, but I never, ever want to see the weapon skills back from ME1.

Now read and respond to my later post where I say I understand and I don't think the way the tree's were done was the best ways to do weapon skills for an eliite soldier.  I would have simply liked to have picked proficiencies instead of BW saying no you can't use this AR anymore and then going oops, now you can since you found soemthing on the bug ship.

Now go reread the bolded line in the post you quoted.

[Darth_Ultima]

What I thought was funny is that Shepard has been dead for two years and as soon as he wakes up he knows what thermal clips are. The reloading thing was one of the few changes to the game that I did not like.

[CmdrFenix83]

Wow, my first double post ever... 

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 03 mars 2010 - 05:13 .

[ccconda]

We can't use our guns while running around cities. Why? Becaue we'd run out of ammo for the next mission. So Bioware took that out.



I LOVED shooting random crap and seeing the effects while running around the citadel in ME1. But oh well... so long as we get to reload.

Also, reloading takes up a button on xbox controllers. Without reloading, we could have room for a 'crouch' key, or 'grenade' key. Nobody thinks about these things..

[ccconda]

dubble bubble

Modifié par ccconda, 03 mars 2010 - 05:05 .

[ccconda]

We can't use our guns while running around cities. Why? Becaue we'd run out of ammo for the next mission. So Bioware took that out.



I LOVED shooting random crap and seeing the effects while running around the citadel in ME1. But oh well... so long as we get to reload.

Also, reloading takes up a button on xbox controllers. Without reloading, we could have room for a 'crouch' key, or 'grenade' key. Nobody thinks about these things..

[HelterSkelter89]

someone should start one of those gay "it's up to you..." threads for bringing back the me1 gun overheat mechanic.

[binaryemperor]

I think for ME3 they should have cerberus engineer reusable heat sinks made out of a really effective heat dispersing alloy rather than a coolant. That way you can have a reloading system along with unlimited ammo. The best of both worlds.



I loved the pistols in Left 4 Dead for this very reason. Ammo was not an issue with them, but you still had to reload clips, so there were plenty of moments where you were vulnerable.

[binaryemperor]

Darth_Ultima wrote...

What I thought was funny is that Shepard has been dead for two years and as soon as he wakes up he knows what thermal clips are. The reloading thing was one of the few changes to the game that I did not like.

Yeah, I thought it was funny, too. I mean, he could have at least said "This weapon does not have a heat sink in it". but he actually says "thermal clip".

At least with the "heat sink" comment, Miranca could correct him and tell him modern guns use thermal clips, no longer heat sinks.

[CmdrFenix83]

Darth_Ultima wrote...

What I thought was funny is that Shepard has been dead for two years and as soon as he wakes up he knows what thermal clips are. The reloading thing was one of the few changes to the game that I did not like.

Not to mention that the mechs on Jacob's loyalty mission drop them... or that said mechs are even there.  They've been on that planet for 10 years, essentially in hiding, and yet their tech is up to date. 

[CmdrFenix83]

ccconda wrote...

We can't use our guns while running around cities. Why? Becaue we'd run out of ammo for the next mission. So Bioware took that out.

I LOVED shooting random crap and seeing the effects while running around the citadel in ME1. But oh well... so long as we get to reload.
Also, reloading takes up a button on xbox controllers. Without reloading, we could have room for a 'crouch' key, or 'grenade' key. Nobody thinks about these things..

Grenades were superfluous with the heavy weapons.  They sucked in ME1 anyway.  Crouching could easily have remained in the game, the LS button is bound to the same thing as the RS, and is unnecessary.  They just decided it was unneeded to make the player decide to do so. 

[binaryemperor]

Yeah, I was a little disappointed you could not manually crouch.

[Darth_Ultima]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Yes, it is a lore thing for me, it doesn't make sense for the universe imo.  If a hybrid system is pointless because I don't need the ammo, then a clip system is pointless because I never ran out of ammo either.  To me if you are going to impliment an ammo system, then you need to make it count for more then it did in ME2.

You still have to stop shooting at some point to reload.  You can't just spray forever.  You can't just throw bullets away either, as you will eventually run out if you're being dumb.  In ME1, you were capable of running down a hallway with the trigger held down, never having to stop.  With the weapon skills in ME1, you would be able to run straight down the hall, never moving your crosshair, and you would kill everything at the other side.  It was broken. 

They made the combat more invovled, more tactical than "hold right trigger, win", and penalized you for missing with Snipers, Heavy Pistols, and Shotguns.  It's a game mechanic choice that they tried to justify with in-game lore.  Some people buy it, obviously some don't, and then there's the vast majority that don't care.  All comments like your last line will do, is make sure we have less ammo available in ME3.  Personally, I won't care, but some people might.

They could have easily nerfed the idiots with double heat sinks from the first game without having to impliment a major rewrite of canon established in ME1.  I hate it when game companies make radical gameplay changes becasue of
douchebags who like to use exploits.  I liked having a barrel extension and combat optics on my assault
rifle even if it caused it to overheat more.  As much as I loved the game I haven't talked to a single one of my friends who own ME2 who is a fan of the ammo system.  I would not say that there is a vast majority of people that don't care.  Most just overlook it because the rest of the game is so great.  The problem is that every time I drop that last enemy and go on that obligatory hunt for ammo... er excuse me... "thermal clips" it just makes the combat feel like Gears of War in space or every other shooter out there.  To me that is not a good feeling because I HATE LOOKING FOR AMMO but what can you do when weapons need ammo.

Which is why I liked Mass Effect and its heat based system which gave it a different  flavor then every other shooter on the market.  I would have prefered the hybrid ammo/heat system that people have unlocked via mods.  I would be one of those people but alas I bought the game on the 360.  A few of the old Mechwarrior games had a heat based firing system and you could flush the coolant for an instant cool down but only until you ran out of coolant and that system worked really well.  I do not understand why a similar system didn't work in ME2.

Modifié par Darth_Ultima, 03 mars 2010 - 05:46 .

[ccconda]

The 'flushing' thing works yes, but its still illogical. Universal thermal clip design = universal thermal clips for all weapons. None of this "10 shot" limit on snipers. It really makes no sense, and it's just messy retconning. Just say "ammo clips now shave off more metal per slice, so you run out faster and gotta reload"

Still, my bigest gripe is no gun modifications. Sigh

Modifié par ccconda, 03 mars 2010 - 07:46 .

[Poison_Berrie]

Daeion wrote...
See, that's why I like ME better, everyone has access to the weapons and then you get to decide what weapons your shep was most proficient in.

No you didn't. Only a soldier could afford to do that, since you know he had all the weapon skills. You could hardly hit the broadside of the barn with AR with any other class and the shotgun wasn't much better (though the short range in which it was used made good aim less of a problem).

As for the lore. Gameplay decisions trump Lore. That's the explanation. They could and probably should have made a better lore explanation, but people should really stop making the it doesn't make sense argument. 
When making a game Lore is sacrificed when it benefits game-play.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 03 mars 2010 - 12:45 .

[Daeion]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Yes, it is a lore thing for me, it doesn't make sense for the universe imo.  If a hybrid system is pointless because I don't need the ammo, then a clip system is pointless because I never ran out of ammo either.  To me if you are going to impliment an ammo system, then you need to make it count for more then it did in ME2.

You still have to stop shooting at some point to reload.  You can't just spray forever.  You can't just throw bullets away either, as you will eventually run out if you're being dumb.  In ME1, you were capable of running down a hallway with the trigger held down, never having to stop.  With the weapon skills in ME1, you would be able to run straight down the hall, never moving your crosshair, and you would kill everything at the other side.  It was broken. 

They made the combat more invovled, more tactical than "hold right trigger, win", and penalized you for missing with Snipers, Heavy Pistols, and Shotguns.  It's a game mechanic choice that they tried to justify with in-game lore.  Some people buy it, obviously some don't, and then there's the vast majority that don't care.  All comments like your last line will do, is make sure we have less ammo available in ME3.  Personally, I won't care, but some people might.

Oh I know I can't just  spary and pray, I just think that in the future when you used to be able to go 4000 shots before having to do any sort of a reload, saying you can now only go 40 shots is kind of a step backwards.  They could have just gotten rid of being able to do double frictionless materials and then you'd ahve the system as it was originally intended and you'd have to stop to let the weapon cool down just like you have to stop no to reload.  As for my last comment, meh, maybe then I'll actually be more careful with my shots and actually cringe when I miss a headshot because I just wasted precious ammo.

[Daeion]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Daeion wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Except when you load in, Shepard couldn't even hit Sovereign on the back if he was fliyng in front of him, despite being a graduate of the N7 program.  He also wielded a sniper rifle as though he spent 5 minutes chugging Red Bulls before touching down on Eden Prime. 

This is a seasoned soldier, not some rookie fresh out of boot.  He should be able to hit a target in front of him without needing to shoot 6+ times.  If you got to choose proficiencies in ME2, that would be fine, but I never, ever want to see the weapon skills back from ME1.

Now read and respond to my later post where I say I understand and I don't think the way the tree's were done was the best ways to do weapon skills for an eliite soldier.  I would have simply liked to have picked proficiencies instead of BW saying no you can't use this AR anymore and then going oops, now you can since you found something on the bug ship.

Now go reread the bolded line in the post you quoted.

Notice how I pretty much said the exact same thing that you said?  I know the post you quoated was more of me being a tired ass but I was more looking to see if you had anything to say about me agreeing with the whole elite soldier not being able to hit anything was lame.

[Daeion]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

ccconda wrote...

We can't use our guns while running around cities. Why? Becaue we'd run out of ammo for the next mission. So Bioware took that out.

I LOVED shooting random crap and seeing the effects while running around the citadel in ME1. But oh well... so long as we get to reload.
Also, reloading takes up a button on xbox controllers. Without reloading, we could have room for a 'crouch' key, or 'grenade' key. Nobody thinks about these things..

Grenades were superfluous with the heavy weapons.  They sucked in ME1 anyway.  Crouching could easily have remained in the game, the LS button is bound to the same thing as the RS, and is unnecessary.  They just decided it was unneeded to make the player decide to do so. 

I like grenades in ME, tossing them above guys in cover and then blowing them just above their heads, good times.

[Daeion]

Darth_Ultima wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Yes, it is a lore thing for me, it doesn't make sense for the universe imo.  If a hybrid system is pointless because I don't need the ammo, then a clip system is pointless because I never ran out of ammo either.  To me if you are going to impliment an ammo system, then you need to make it count for more then it did in ME2.

You still have to stop shooting at some point to reload.  You can't just spray forever.  You can't just throw bullets away either, as you will eventually run out if you're being dumb.  In ME1, you were capable of running down a hallway with the trigger held down, never having to stop.  With the weapon skills in ME1, you would be able to run straight down the hall, never moving your crosshair, and you would kill everything at the other side.  It was broken. 

They made the combat more invovled, more tactical than "hold right trigger, win", and penalized you for missing with Snipers, Heavy Pistols, and Shotguns.  It's a game mechanic choice that they tried to justify with in-game lore.  Some people buy it, obviously some don't, and then there's the vast majority that don't care.  All comments like your last line will do, is make sure we have less ammo available in ME3.  Personally, I won't care, but some people might.

They could have easily nerfed the idiots with double heat sinks from the first game without having to impliment a major rewrite of canon established in ME1.  I hate it when game companies make radical gameplay changes becasue of douchebags who like to use exploits.  I liked having a barrel extension and combat optics on my assault rifle even if it caused it to overheat more.

See that what I did, I was always playing around with different mods instead of this double frictionless materials thing.

[Daeion]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Daeion wrote...
See, that's why I like ME better, everyone has access to the weapons and then you get to decide what weapons your shep was most proficient in.

No you didn't. Only a soldier could afford to do that, since you know he had all the weapon skills. You could hardly hit the broadside of the barn with AR with any other class and the shotgun wasn't much better (though the short range in which it was used made good aim less of a problem).

As for the lore. Gameplay decisions trump Lore. That's the explanation. They could and probably should have made a better lore explanation, but people should really stop making the it doesn't make sense argument. 
When making a game Lore is sacrificed when it benefits game-play.

I only ever put points into AR on any class that I made and it was always my bonus ability yet I still had 150 kills with each of the weapons, granted sniper rifle sucked..ugh.  I know not every class started with the AR but they could still use it and after the first playthrough any class could gain proficency in it.  That's what I liked about the ME tree where weapons were concerned. 

Except for they could have come up with something that better fit the lore and still had the same gameplay mechanics.  I disagree that lore should suffer for gameplay, if something isn't gamebreaking, which I don't feel the way ammo worked in the first game was, then you need to come up with the best possible lore reason for the change and if you can tell people are still going to go wtf, then you shouldn't do it.

[Poison_Berrie]

Daeion wrote...
Except for they could have come up with something that better fit the lore and still had the same gameplay mechanics.  I disagree that lore should suffer for gameplay, if something isn't gamebreaking, which I don't feel the way ammo worked in the first game was, then you need to come up with the best possible lore reason for the change and if you can tell people are still going to go wtf, then you shouldn't do it.

I never said anything about what I thought. It's a fact of game design/industry.
They probably could have thought something more reasonable up than "it just is". I just don't think it's that essential. They made the change for gameplay reasons and they did not hide it in some convoluted explanation of why things changed in two years. At least it's honest.