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[metatheurgist]

This is an expansion because it is not a new stand-alone product. It requires the original game to play, therefore it is an expansion of the game. Story, characters, world, player expectations have nothing to do with it.

[Default137]

Actually whose to say they won't reference the US ending with an Orlesian.



Its not like DA:O was amazingly complex in choices, you either recruited the dwarves, or well, you recruited the dwarves, you either helped the Mages, or well, you help the Mages, the only option that you could really alter is whether or not you help the Werewolves or the Dalish, and both end up pretty much the same as well. I mean, how would any of that transfer over to a Orlesian Warden? Why would he care that some other Warden managed to unite the Werewolves and Elves to live in harmony, he just cares that the other Warden got an army, same with the Mages, and the Dwarves, And its not like Bioware is going to completely omit the fact there was another Warden, they already said your US Warden will be mentioned, it just won't be by name, and your deeds won't be picked over by a fine tooth comb.



What exactly where you expecting when you did the US? A huge ceremony, tons of praise, and in the next game, your exact deeds would be common knowledge to every man women and child? How the heck does that make any sense, most people wouldn't care how you did something, just that you did it. and in that matter, they can easily throw together a Canon story.

[Nhadalie]

I hated having to make Alistair sleep with Morrigan to survive on my HNF. Especially when she told him he'd enjoy it. So I started writing an alternate story about Alistair and Kendra, my HNF.

Which expanded into me making several other characters with different stories. Like Talia, who gets dumped by Alistair because she's a mage.. Then she runs back to Cullen or moves on to Anders. I'm not sure which.


Maybe I'll make one of my dwarves make the ultimate sacrifice.

I'd have pre-ordered it myself, but my father was harrassing me about birthday presents. Which is funny, since this is the first year they've given me one in.. A few years.


But back on topic. I'm reserving judgement on 90% of the things I've heard about Awakening until it actually comes out.

[Nessin]

DoodleMG wrote...
No, the main issue is the fact that they are trying to sell a new story as an EXPANSION, whereas an EXPANSION is meant to expand upon a story. To clarify: The original story was about YOUR grey warden as he/she struggled to bring the lands of Middle-Earth together with the aid of Vala Mal Doran, Puss in Boots and the rest of your motley crew.

It's pretty common knowledge that Expansions aren't intended to be used as sequels. They are meant to supplement the already existing material... not replace it as new content.

Sure, you can carry your character over into DAA, but not without first giving up pretty much everything that makes your character... well, your character. The most obvious point being the discussions going on on the forums right now: The fact that the climax in DAO that helped to define our character is going to be... well... meaningless.

...

My point is... this isn't an expansion. This is a business decision designed to give players new content disguised as an expansion. Why would this be a bad thing? Because, if it's an expansion, you expect less than you would from a sequel... meaning they have to actually make less (This is what I find wrong.). My proof is basically in the design: It's just obviously not designed as an expansion to your existing story.

So yeah, this mostly only applies to Roleplayers, and those that want to be involved in their own story.

I own the Collector's Editions of ME, ME2 and DragonAge... but I'll be getting this one used. Thanks.

There are tons of games out there that have an expansion that isn't a direct attachment to the games storyline.  I'm sorry you haven't seen them before, as some of them are pretty good, but I suppose those are the breaks.  On top of that, there is no where (be it "ethically" - how do you attach ethics to a problem with a definition of a word? - or otherwise) that states an expansion has to be a direct carry over of another game.

I get where you're coming from.  You feel jipped that Bioware is not releasing content that fits into your ideal world-view/situation/whatever... Fine, take that position and make your complaint known.  But don't come around and state its "ethically" wrong for them to do it, or that its "common knowledge" of something that blantantly isn't even true let alone commonly accepted across the breadth of PC gaming.

[DoodleMG]

Nhadalie wrote...

I hated having to make Alistair sleep with Morrigan to survive on my HNF. Especially when she told him he'd enjoy it. So I started writing an alternate story about Alistair and Kendra, my HNF.

Which expanded into me making several other characters with different stories. Like Talia, who gets dumped by Alistair because she's a mage.. Then she runs back to Cullen or moves on to Anders. I'm not sure which.


Maybe I'll make one of my dwarves make the ultimate sacrifice.

I'd have pre-ordered it myself, but my father was harrassing me about birthday presents. Which is funny, since this is the first year they've given me one in.. A few years.


But back on topic. I'm reserving judgement on 90% of the things I've heard about Awakening until it actually comes out.

Yeah... It's kinda unavoidable on that end... Either Alistair Leaves, Alistair Dies or Alistair sleeps with a sneaky witch thief.
As for the dwarves, they're actually quite awesome to play as if you haven't already. Never cared for dwarves until Dragon Age honestly. (Except for all the politics.)

[DoodleMG]

Nessin wrote...

DoodleMG wrote...
No, the main issue is the fact that they are trying to sell a new story as an EXPANSION, whereas an EXPANSION is meant to expand upon a story. To clarify: The original story was about YOUR grey warden as he/she struggled to bring the lands of Middle-Earth together with the aid of Vala Mal Doran, Puss in Boots and the rest of your motley crew.

It's pretty common knowledge that Expansions aren't intended to be used as sequels. They are meant to supplement the already existing material... not replace it as new content.

Sure, you can carry your character over into DAA, but not without first giving up pretty much everything that makes your character... well, your character. The most obvious point being the discussions going on on the forums right now: The fact that the climax in DAO that helped to define our character is going to be... well... meaningless.

...

My point is... this isn't an expansion. This is a business decision designed to give players new content disguised as an expansion. Why would this be a bad thing? Because, if it's an expansion, you expect less than you would from a sequel... meaning they have to actually make less (This is what I find wrong.). My proof is basically in the design: It's just obviously not designed as an expansion to your existing story.

So yeah, this mostly only applies to Roleplayers, and those that want to be involved in their own story.

I own the Collector's Editions of ME, ME2 and DragonAge... but I'll be getting this one used. Thanks.

There are tons of games out there that have an expansion that isn't a direct attachment to the games storyline.  I'm sorry you haven't seen them before, as some of them are pretty good, but I suppose those are the breaks.  On top of that, there is no where (be it "ethically" - how do you attach ethics to a problem with a definition of a word? - or otherwise) that states an expansion has to be a direct carry over of another game.

I get where you're coming from.  You feel jipped that Bioware is not releasing content that fits into your ideal world-view/situation/whatever... Fine, take that position and make your complaint known.  But don't come around and state its "ethically" wrong for them to do it, or that its "common knowledge" of something that blantantly isn't even true let alone commonly accepted across the breadth of PC gaming.

That's funny, it's fine that I state it as long as you don't have to read about it and be forced to make a post telling me how I suck for stating my opinion.

Nice? No, Not really. ;P

And everything you need to understand are in the posts I've already made. It's ethically wrong to sell you a book at book price when it's only a short story, sad to say. Not the best example (Since that makes it sound more like a price issue... which it won't be, in a few months - Which I can survive, I assure you.), but that's all I'm giving you.

[Fycan]

DoodleMG wrote...
Yeah... I'm 23. I have to buy all of my Collector's Editions and game copies myself. xD As for my first character, he was also very complex... which is why he ended up losing EVERYTHING in the end. Killing the archdemon was partly due to this. Seeing as how his woman wanted him to create a demon spawn while he was trying to purge the world of demons... and then leaves him on the eve of battle.
It sucked.

throughout all my 4 playthroughs, Morrigan always is my 1st and last time with the baby thing... again.. this happened in all my playthroughs, i didn't know the baby is a demon...
he' just got the Spirit of the Gold God in him that's it i think
So there's no need to worry abou the kid.

you know this brings up the point that we wernt able to force the taint down these "party members" throat the first time we met. I say this because these members just come and go as they wish, its like my group is a freaking charity dinner! Had I have the abilities, Leliana, Oghren, Morrigan.. (I HATE ALL THESE GUYS) they wont be in my group if they havnt drank the taint..
and that's what so good about the AWakening, u get to conduct the Joing Ritual.. No more Free Boat Rides!
you want in? you are with me all the way.

[Nhadalie]

DoodleMG wrote...



Yeah... It's kinda unavoidable on that end... Either Alistair Leaves, Alistair Dies or Alistair sleeps with a sneaky witch thief.
As for the dwarves, they're actually quite awesome to play as if you haven't already. Never cared for dwarves until Dragon Age honestly. (Except for all the politics.)

Yeeeah. But between Talia and Kendra, I've had enough romancing Alistair. One of these days, I'll actually romance Zev.


I quite like the dwarves. I've played through all of the beginning origins. The only issues I have are that I can't really see either of my dwarves romancing anyone. They're both still in love with guys from their past. But then again, so is my Dalish elf.


I'm still hoping for flirting with Anders. If he can hit on Mhairi, I should be able to flirt with him on Talia damnit.

[Drasanil]

DoodleMG wrote...
Wooooooooowwwwww. Rebuild the engine for one cutscene/explanation? Are you seeerrrious? Wow guy.

 
Uhm sure, why don't you put some thought into what you say first? Have you considered that there might be issues with directly importing a dead character? Or that they might have an ingame work around for the US problem?

Just wow. Seriously, read more than just the recent posts: I've said like FIVE TIMES, relationships are MINOR, and the story -... look, just... learn to read. It's all there.

Good Boy.

Guess what I did:

DoodleMG wrote...
Romances are a minor issue, although it still bugs me.

DoodleMG wrote...
As for the relationship issue... yeah, it's a big thing for roleplayers. Why bother allowing it if it doesn't matter on down the road. It's basically as silly as Ashley telling you to stuff it in ME2, whereas everyone else goes, "I'm here for you! Not the bad people!" 8D

Or did you forget you managed to contradict yourself one post after the other?

Modifié par Drasanil, 03 mars 2010 - 02:11 .

[SwordsmanofShadow]

metatheurgist wrote...

This is an expansion because it is not a new stand-alone product. It requires the original game to play, therefore it is an expansion of the game. Story, characters, world, player expectations have nothing to do with it.

Actually, from what was said by the devs in a thread asking about the awakenings disk, the game will not need the origins disk to play- to play Origins, you need the origins disk, for awakenings you need the awakenings disk.

So... yeah. I don't really have any problem with the carryover decisions. The only decision I'm not really into is the fact that there are hot chicks my Grey Warden can't lay with<_< But in the end, this really is more like a direct sequel than an expansion.

Modifié par SwordsmanofShadow, 03 mars 2010 - 02:02 .

[DoodleMG]

If you're going to post about:

How romances will be acknowledged.
I've heard it.

How you can play as your character.
You don't get it, reread the first post.

How I'm supposedly misusing "ethics".
It's my opinion, you don't have to like it.

How I'm a whiner.
Beat it Troll.

How anyone could possibly have an opinion other than yourself.
I'm sorry.

How Alistair is busy being King.
We're past that.

How you don't like my opinion.
That's fine. I'll allow it.

How there are too many decisions for the game the next game to remember.
We obviously aren't talking about the same game.

Modifié par DoodleMG, 03 mars 2010 - 02:06 .

[Fycan]

can we uninstall Origins after installing AWakening? do we need to have 20+20 = 40gb of space now? what about the next expansion 20+20+20+20+20+20+20+20+20+20+20+20+????

[Cuthlan]

If you're going to post about:

How you're a real roleplayer so you're upset because Bioware is, in your mind, doing you an injustice;
We've heard it.





...comes off pretty douchey, huh.

[Fycan]

k

[DoodleMG]

Nhadalie wrote...

Yeeeah. But between Talia and Kendra,
I've had enough romancing Alistair. One of these days, I'll actually
romance Zev. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]


I
quite like the dwarves. I've played through all of the beginning
origins. The only issues I have are that I can't really see either of my
dwarves romancing anyone. They're both still in love with guys from
their past. But then again, so is my Dalish elf.


I'm still
hoping for flirting with Anders. If he can hit on Mhairi, I should be
able to flirt with him on Talia damnit.

I tried playing as a girl, since I usually like to stick to one guy as my main man... but... every time I make a girl, I fail as a roleplayer and go lesbian... each and every time. xD; Maybe I'll try a blood-mage... although I see that being an issue in Awakenings too, should that carry over.

Fycan wrote...

throughout all my 4 playthroughs, Morrigan always is my 1st and last time with the baby thing... again.. this happened in all my playthroughs, i didn't know the baby is a demon...
he' just got the Spirit of the Gold God in him that's it i think
So there's no need to worry abou the kid.

you know this brings up the point that we wernt able to force the taint down these "party members" throat the first time we met. I say this because these members just come and go as they wish, its like my group is a freaking charity dinner! Had I have the abilities, Leliana, Oghren, Morrigan.. (I HATE ALL THESE GUYS) they wont be in my group if they havnt drank the taint..
and that's what so good about the AWakening, u get to conduct the Joing Ritual.. No more Free Boat Rides!
you want in? you are with me all the way.

My character still worried about the kid, since it was a matter of not knowing or understanding how it would work. I was a warrior, not a mage by any means.

But yeah, now you've got me thinking of ME2... and how Awakenings is basically collecting the baddest of the bad, for New Wardens, to take on the machine ra-... I mean the blight. D:

[DoodleMG]

Cuthlan wrote...

If you're going to post about:

How you're a real roleplayer so you're upset because Bioware is, in your mind, doing you an injustice;
I love you guys.





...comes off pretty douchey, huh.

No. Not really. I'm glad you appreciate me though. Now stay on topic plz troll.

[DoodleMG]

SwordsmanofShadow wrote...

metatheurgist wrote...

This is an expansion because it is not a new stand-alone product. It requires the original game to play, therefore it is an expansion of the game. Story, characters, world, player expectations have nothing to do with it.

Actually, from what was said by the devs in a thread asking about the awakenings disk, the game will not need the origins disk to play- to play Origins, you need the origins disk, for awakenings you need the awakenings disk.

So... yeah. I don't really have any problem with the carryover decisions. The only decision I'm not really into is the fact that there are hot chicks my Grey Warden can't lay with<_< But in the end, this really is more like a direct sequel than an expansion.

Someone else sees it too? xD Wow.

But yeah, I only started this because the big issue for me is: It's NOT an expansion, It's a direct sequel, yet everyone feels content to argue with me for the sake of arguing.

Fun fun.

[Default137]

So people who disagree with you are trolls?

Honestly, what did you expect at the end of Origins, please indulge me, what exactly did you think would happen after the Ultimate Sacrifice?

Modifié par Default137, 03 mars 2010 - 02:19 .

[Cuthlan]

DoodleMG wrote...

Cuthlan wrote...

If you're going to post about:

How you're a real roleplayer so you're upset because Bioware is, in your mind, doing you an injustice;
We've heard it




...comes off pretty douchey, huh.

No. Not really. I'm glad you appreciate me though. Now stay on topic plz troll.

What topic is that?

You posted a thread, then basically said you don't want any counter arguments to your opinion because you've already heard them. There's really nothing to discuss then, is there?

[Nhadalie]

DoodleMG wrote...


I tried playing as a girl, since I usually like to stick to one guy as my main man... but... every time I make a girl, I fail as a roleplayer and go lesbian... each and every time. xD; Maybe I'll try a blood-mage... although I see that being an issue in Awakenings too, should that carry over.

~snickers~ Can't resist it? Why does that sound like a typically male problem there?


I made a male human noble once. To see how the origin was different. It was even funnier than the female one. Telling Ferghus that you had someone waiting for you to make being sent to bed early better made me giggle.

But then part of it was because the guy character was the polar opposite of Kendra. Womanizer and flirt to the core.

I also made a male city elf once. I don't think the origin was all that different. I liked the female one better.

[DoodleMG]

Default137 wrote...

So people who disagree with you are trolls?

Honestly, what did you expect at the end of Origins, please indulge me, what exactly did you think would happen after an Ultimate Sacrifice?

Quite the contrary, people who disagree with me are fine. It's people who insist on disagreeing with me and being as rude as possible about it that are trolls.

Lack of social skills is no excuse, should that be the case.

Quite frankly, I expected my character to DIE and stay DEAD. On that note, I did still expect that a real expansion would remember the decisions the hero made, as many other discussions are currently complaining. All I did was address to the forums why I was going to buy the game used, to chat with others of a similar opnion, or hear their opinions otherwise. That's not to say I want to hear either, "Your right, these other people are dumb." or "You're a douchebag. Bioware is awesome."

You asked... so I answered.

[DoodleMG]

Cuthlan wrote...

DoodleMG wrote...

Cuthlan wrote...

If you're going to post about:

How you're a real roleplayer so you're upset because Bioware is, in your mind, doing you an injustice;
We've heard it




...comes off pretty douchey, huh.

No. Not really. I'm glad you appreciate me though. Now stay on topic plz troll.

What topic is that?

You posted a thread, then basically said you don't want any counter arguments to your opinion because you've already heard them. There's really nothing to discuss then, is there?

Then why are you still here? It's true, I would like people to not repeat what's already been said. If they want to repeat themselves, it's not like I can stop them or you anyway.

So, by all means, go ahead... I'm just saying don't get mad when I specifically don't reply.

[Fycan]

my only Human Noble character ended up being the King consort. So if the story is going to break and he's gonna start out The Awakening with any amount of money less than 100,000g, i wont consider it an expansion either

srsly

[DoodleMG]

Nhadalie wrote...

DoodleMG wrote...


I tried playing as a girl, since I usually like to stick to one guy as my main man... but... every time I make a girl, I fail as a roleplayer and go lesbian... each and every time. xD; Maybe I'll try a blood-mage... although I see that being an issue in Awakenings too, should that carry over.

~snickers~ Can't resist it? Why does that sound like a typically male problem there?


I made a male human noble once. To see how the origin was different. It was even funnier than the female one. Telling Ferghus that you had someone waiting for you to make being sent to bed early better made me giggle.

But then part of it was because the guy character was the polar opposite of Kendra. Womanizer and flirt to the core.

I also made a male city elf once. I don't think the origin was all that different. I liked the female one better.

I'll admit it... I'm a total "dude". I can't sleep with Alistair... even when I'm supposed to be a woman. xD;

I do feel bad when I tell him "No, I don't want to sleep with you." though... because all of the turn downs sound so... blunt, and mean.

[DoodleMG]

Fycan wrote...

my only Human Noble character ended up being the King consort. So if the story is going to break and he's gonna start out The Awakening with any amount of money less than 100,000g, i wont consider it an expansion either
srsly

Ha! Smart-butt.

Well! If my armor is the same when I start DAA then I'll be mad that my character hasn't changed clothes in months! D:< ( xP )