249 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthKaldriss]

Slipfeed wrote...

Oh sweet, the fanboi's have arived!!!

Enjoy paying .25 cents per quest three years from now once they figure out you're tolerance for this sort of thing fanbois.

"Advertising" DLC in game by offering a quest that requires payment crosses a line. If you tolerate it and allow that line to be crossed, you bend over of your own free will.

Don't complain later when they stick it in.

             So let me figure this one out. Some other forum users (Not all of them of course) come here and well blow your arguement out of the water and you start with the insults well ok then.    

[DAO_Taha]

I love the game. I really do. I enjoyed every moment of it and I send to hell 3 customers just to be able to play it in peace. Did I mentioned that I love the game?



Anyway.



I have nothing against DLCs, and nothing against payed DLCs. Some people invest time and effort to create another piece of virtual reality for me. I would be an ingrate to not recompensate those people for what they did. Still I don't like to be told about that when I play the game. When I play the game, is the only thing I do. I get angry even if the phone rings (yeah, that's why I lost those customers). So I don't want to stop and download things. And especially don't want a guy in leather armor standing near a cart to talk to me about Internet. Maybe I'm an idiot, but all the game made me to feel THERE. I cared about my "friends" and I hated L. with passion. I wish there was an option to decapitate his treacerous daughter too, but... Anyway, that stupid questmaster broke that feeling each time I was in camp. That sign hovering over the head was - to quote Alistar - "poke - poke - poke", and finally I HAD to buy the stupid DLC, but was much more to get rid of that feeling of "unfinished business" than to enjoy the new content.



Was like you go to a restaurant, the waiter comes with your order, and when you start eating, he comes again and tells you that the salt, pepper and the ketchup are extra and if you want your food salty or spicy you need to pay extra. I did not liked it, but was the only bad thing in 2 playgrounds. (~100 hours of play)



Bottom line, is one of the best games I ever played, if not THE best. Thank you BW for it.

[triggerhippy]

ToJKa1 wrote...

It was a bad i idea to have that NPC there before purchasing the DLC. As i said in the other thread, use that launcher news feed to inform me of DLCs, not ingame NPCs.

Needles to say to say i may not take it too well if you patch more NPCs like that to promote your future DLCs.

This.

[Molton4]

Me thinks maybe, the "Gimme money NPC" had less to do with Bioware and perhaps more to do with EA

[Vininsane]

Sereaph502 wrote...

The-Cyber-Dave wrote...

That last post is bologna though. I have played 30+ hours, and I am not anywhere near half finished all of the content present in the game. This game has 80+ hours in it. And while it might have been nice to have a few more mage textures, lacking them really doesn't indicate that the game is not finished. Its a fairly minor issue.

Perhaps only if you spend the whole game revisiting every single town after every major story line event talking to every single NPC in the game while going through every single dialog option in the game in order to maybe find a sidequest to do to maybe prolong the game for another few minutes

If you dont want to play through all the game content whgos fault is that.

[triggerhippy]

Molton4 wrote...

Me thinks maybe, the "Gimme money NPC" had less to do with Bioware and perhaps more to do with EA

I think most people would agree with you. But it still needs to disappear.

[Rayne Myria Solo]

technically, EA and Bioware are "married" and thus are now one entity, so it has to do with both. I agree the NPC ad is eggregious, I have no problem with DLC if they're good value for the money, and good quest or items. What I don't want to see is a "Champions Online" style of "1.00 for this armor set" 3.00" for this quest" $10.00" for that pack. If things are more focused, like they seem to be right now (I got all the DLC for "free" in my DDE game, and was one of the reasons I picked it up, besides the fact every physical store I could find "sold out" of the CE 3+ months before release). But a new NPC or two, a new area like warden's keep, new quests, complete with some new armors weapons and items, and new dialogue, when all of that is put TOGETHER in a DLC and it costs 5-10-15 bucks (depending on length and complexity) then it's a great idea, and a wonderful use of the Internet. That's just my take on it.

[Seraosha]

Hehe, so this NPC micro payments thing is pretty much Oblivions Horse Armour Pack. No point moaning though. The DLC horse has already bolted the stable, when so many thousands of people bought their horse armour. DLC is here to stay. Developers could be a little more tactful about it however.

[omgahamsandwich]

I bought the collectors edition of this game and I thought the 65 or whatever dollars I spent was a bargain for how much content, replayability, length, and fun this game has and will give me. I will gladly spend 7 dollars for new stuff, I hope they constantly put out new stuff

[miltos33]

DLC is ok for as long as it is not advertised in-game, and at some stage it is offered as a collection on a retail disk for all those people who like to have a physical product.

[AndarianTD]

northernNether wrote...

It feels as if we paid $50 for the game, to have to pay an additional fee to access a part of the purchase.

I don't understand why. The extra DLC quests aren't part of your original purchase. That's why they're purchaseable DLC.

Personally, I think it's brilliant, and I've thought so ever since we learned about the plans for adding content to the game this way at the Builder's Event this summer. No one is forced to buy the additional content, and it gives them a revenue stream from which to keep dynamically adding to and improving Dragon Age. It's brilliant marketing.

[Darkholynova]

DAO_Taha wrote...

I love the game. I really do. I enjoyed every moment of it and I send to hell 3 customers just to be able to play it in peace. Did I mentioned that I love the game?

Anyway.

I have nothing against DLCs, and nothing against payed DLCs. Some people invest time and effort to create another piece of virtual reality for me. I would be an ingrate to not recompensate those people for what they did. Still I don't like to be told about that when I play the game. When I play the game, is the only thing I do. I get angry even if the phone rings (yeah, that's why I lost those customers). So I don't want to stop and download things. And especially don't want a guy in leather armor standing near a cart to talk to me about Internet. Maybe I'm an idiot, but all the game made me to feel THERE. I cared about my "friends" and I hated L. with passion. I wish there was an option to decapitate his treacerous daughter too, but... Anyway, that stupid questmaster broke that feeling each time I was in camp. That sign hovering over the head was - to quote Alistar - "poke - poke - poke", and finally I HAD to buy the stupid DLC, but was much more to get rid of that feeling of "unfinished business" than to enjoy the new content.

Was like you go to a restaurant, the waiter comes with your order, and when you start eating, he comes again and tells you that the salt, pepper and the ketchup are extra and if you want your food salty or spicy you need to pay extra. I did not liked it, but was the only bad thing in 2 playgrounds. (~100 hours of play)

Bottom line, is one of the best games I ever played, if not THE best. Thank you BW for it.

I'll agree with you there, having an npc go through his heart felt story to me and then telling me to buy "Premium" content from the internet completely ruins my sense of imursion. All sense of being there in this fantasy is destroyed and reality comes crashing through asking for my credit card.

And that big golden exclaimation mark... it's like a slap in the face every time I go to camp. I'm a completionist when it comes to questing. I see a quest, I gotta do it. That ****er shouldn't have the BIG FLASHY GOLDEN mark above his head unless I can accept his quest. I didn't buy the DLC yet, so his lightbulb shouldn't be lit up like a christmas tree. It's insulting. I want to "complete" the game but this quest is gunne be there... unaccepted... glowing in my nightmares and making my butt hairs twinge when I go back to camp.

I like dragon age and I like Bioware.I realy do enjoy this game and I hope I find it replayable. And I hope they release more DLC or even an expansion pack or 2. But a quest npc for a DLC I haven't downloaded yet... I'd have an easier time with that if the quest marker didn't light up until I baught it.

DLC for single player games is dificult enough for me to accept as the norm. Hundreds of games launch every year. I generaly buy a new game every month, sometimes more depending on situation with launches and my needs. Spending an extra 20 bucks on a game I'll play through 2-3 times doesn't sound like a good investment unless the game is so god damn exceptional that I'll keep coming back to it for years. Expansion packs I can understand, but single quests with price tags?

I can understand the OP's complaints. Forcing us to see the DLC quests as ingame advertisements is only the first step in a potentialy ugly future of gaming. His concerns for games 3 years from now charging $.25 per quest you accept is VERY REAL. Look at arcades. You go and put a buck worth of tokens into the House of the Dead shooter for 1 life and you keep filtering your tokens into the machine until you get it done or run out of time or tokens. How long until we have to pay for the disk (for the convenience of playing at home) and pay for our tokens via credit card? It's scary to think, but DLC has prety much replaced "expansion packs" for non MMO games and micro transactions are the future of DLC.

As for finding the game "incomplete"... I doubt it. It seams like a big enough game. I've certainly spent the same or more and gotten LESS from other games in the past. I do have my own opinions on the 'gear' problem. Mage gear is certainly RARE. Even mages don't have any. I just scaled the whole damn mage tower and I've got 1 ****ty robe, 3 silly hats, and 7 crappy "mage staves" with 1 spell power... whoop-de-doo!

My Morigain is level 14 and she's wearing her starter robes and staff still. I see this as a problem. Leather and metal armor is found in GRAND abundance. Though not much of it is worth mentioning. Weapon drops are... odd. It seams I'm just as likely to find grey iron garbage as I am to find something of dragonbone. The locked chests seem ill thaught out to me. I realize they're probebly random, but you kill 10 darkspawn to find that these savage bast***s have tough locks on their chests... only to find that they're locking up rough leather boots or elf root. Shops are ill thaught out too... in all of the dwarf city I could not find a single vendor for flasks. And yeah... all the gear looks the same, except recoloured.

There are parts of the game that, to me, feel rushed and ill thaught out. The world map is convoluted and needlesly confusing. I understand the need to show 'sub areas' on the world map it's self, but the sub area of the elf village IS the elf village... Theres a big yellow box for the 10 feet of mountain area infront of Orzamar's front doors and another big yellow box for being 10 feet inside Orzamar but theres no quick way to get into the Deep Roads world map... and SOMEHOW while traveling from OUTSIDE to INSIDE by clicking the other world map icon for Orzamar instead of walking the 10 feet and clicking on the door... I encountered Zevran in a grassy field... no where near the snowy mountains I had been traveling in. And the first time you go to Denerium City, they should open the city map so you KNOW that theres more than just the marketplace you're set in. I spent 20 minutes looking for some bar called "The Pearl" before I tried leaving.

And the sidequests... well they come in 2 varieties. The gold marker on a dude who tells you what needs doing kind... or the scrap of paper that puts a note in your "quest related" codex and vaguely hints at something that *might* be a quest if you can find some more vague notes by clicking on **** in the envronment that doesn't "glitter" to tell you that your charactor notices it might be usefull. I don't have all day to MOUSE OVER everything I see to see if the icon changes... just make it all ****ing glitter, I spend enough time trying piece the quest together from a few cryptic sentances on a post-it note someone left behind. Some dude in the dwarf bar gave me a note about some "unbound" beast or something and ran off all paranoid. Is that a quest? I'm not sure. I clicked the king's throne and got another part of the note randomly. WTF? I don't rightly understand what this **** is hinting at. It's hardly "griping" or "immursive content" to toss me RANDOM PUZZLE PIECES to 20 different puzzles. All I know is, my quest log is mostly empty and my quest items are 2 pages long.

Maybe the game is incomplete? My sidequests certainly feel that way! Haha. I understand that these sidequests require some reading and some thaught... but some of them are so vague and poorly presented that I honestly lose interest in trying to figure out what the developer wanted me to do with this cryptic message aside from ignoring it until I find more so it pops up in the quest menu.

[Rayne Myria Solo]

Serosha: No it's really not. Shale is the only thing you could even compare to that..and well..it's not lame, so..no.

Militos: I'm torn actually. I've always been the sort of person who HAD TO HAVE the physical disk/box, etc, and refused to buy most things digitally, because you don't really "own" anything that way. It's similar to a comment Giles makes in early 1st season Buffy the Vampire Slayer: "I like the way books feel, they have a texture, a smell, they're heavy, these computers don't have any of that..they're just sterile." or something to that effect (in regards to scanning books into digital formats).

I felt a lot like that, but the more MMOs I've played, and realizing that Mass Effect's disk was largely a "digital/rental copy" anyway with the SecureROM limits and activations placed on it, that I started to de-value physical discs. After recently discovering some games I didn't "care that much about" physically for really good prices on Direct2Drive, I've gotten into them a bit. 5-10 bucks for what would've cost 30-50 a few months ago is a great deal. However, I still fully intend to try to get a "real" physical copy of ME2. I don't like services like Steam or EA's Store that make you run their software/download manager/whatever to run a game. D2D has you use their manager to download and activate sometimes, but not to run it, it behaves the same as a physical disc, and in most cases can be safely burnt to a disc and installed that way. That makes me feel better too.

I guess the point of this ramble is, to a degree, we have to face that the way MMOs work, and the way BW/EA is handling DAO is "the future" of gaming, and it might be best to accept the loss of our physical discs. I would've gladly bought a physical CE of DAO, but they were sold out around here at the places that cared to bother offering preorders 3+ months before release.

The obstinate side of me plans to hold on to my physical DVDs Blu-Rays and things as long as I can, and largely refuse the "download now" mentality of iTunes and such (streaming through Netflix and things are fine, means I can watch something, then buy it later). I figure that one has a longer lifespan than games, as in general even less tech-savvy people watch DVDs and things, and will want their discs.

Games though...I would bet within 10, years, you won't really be ABLE to buy a physical game disc anymore, or they won't be very prevalent. You might have kiosks (probably EBs and gamestops) with box art and things on little wall-shelves, but when you buy it, you'll just get a download or a code, and if you can't do it, they'll burn the disc there for you.

I'm sort of sad for that, in a way, but I'm oddly old-fashioned for a technophile.

edit: was going to put an edit in and apologize for waxing poetic and nostalgic and threadjacking, but I see the general tone is headed this way anyway from the post above me Besides, it was originally just a massive complaint thread, so salvaging it helps.

Modifié par Rayne Myria Solo, 08 novembre 2009 - 02:02 .

[Sunagwa]

 I think it's definetly messed up that they had downloadable content from the release of the game.

 Theres simply no way to deny what they are doing, witch is ripping us off. They should have waited at least a month or two before releaseing there withheld content to make it seem somewhat believable...

 With that said, single player rpgs are my absoloute favorite genre and regardless of what they did I wasn't going to miss out on this game for an mere $15 extra for the CE...but thats just me...

[Killian Kalthorne]

Don't like it, then don't buy it. This has been known about Dragon Age for the longest time and anyone who doesn't make an informed purchase nowadays thanks to the Internet gets what they get.

[Rayne Myria Solo]

Sunagwa wrote...

 I think it's definetly messed up that they had downloadable content from the release of the game.

 Theres simply no way to deny what they are doing, witch is ripping us off. They should have waited at least a month or two before releaseing there withheld content to make it seem somewhat believable...

 With that said, single player rpgs are my absoloute favorite genre and regardless of what they did I wasn't going to miss out on this game for an mere $15 extra for the CE...but thats just me...

I'm confused. It's messed up they had stuff available for people to buy at release? How are they ripping you off? Would you rather them have the content done..wait a month or two, withold it, make you think they designed and worked on it and then put it out to make you feel better? That means they're lying to you, and you'd rather have them do that?

I'm just..confused. All you're really talking about is a perception issue, but that's half the problem with most people these days anyway...

[MikeStark]

I loved the game. My only real complaint is that I had hoped for more varied loot. I'm looking forward to seeing what the community can come up with in regards to mods.

[AndarianTD]

Sunagwa wrote...

Theres simply no way to deny what they are doing, witch is ripping us off.

No, they are not. They're offering us more stuff. If you don't want it or think it's a ripoff, then don't buy the DLC. It's that simple.

They should have waited at least a month or two before releaseing there withheld content to make it seem somewhat believable...

Why? I think it's much better that they did it as soon as possible -- for example, to familiarize players with the idea and how it works, and to work out any bugs in the implementation.

[Grendel72]

Slipfeed wrote...

Seriously.  $15.00 for the shale dlc?  Then to include it in the box, and put a price tag on it anyway?

Then to price wardens keep at $7.00

Am I the only one that see's the sales pitch here?

"Regularly 75.00, but CALL NOW!!! for only 19.95!!!!"

I can see complaining about the salesman, but anyone complaining about the Shale DLC is outing themselves as playing a bootleg copy. Why do you think it was "free with purchase"?
And people claiming Warden's Keep is only a storage chest are idiots. Don't want it, don't buy it. But don't pretend you're being ripped off when you're getting a bigger and better game than anything else out there *and getting a free dev-toolkit* that will lead to loads of free user generated content, much like we got with Neverwinter Nights.

[addiction21]

Sunagwa wrote...

 I think it's definetly messed up that they had downloadable content from the release of the game.

 Theres simply no way to deny what they are doing, witch is ripping us off. They should have waited at least a month or two before releaseing there withheld content to make it seem somewhat believable...

 With that said, single player rpgs are my absoloute favorite genre and regardless of what they did I wasn't going to miss out on this game for an mere $15 extra for the CE...but thats just me...

The DLC team was and are typically a seperate team apart from the main game.  Bioware has stated they wanted to get some stuff out for people at launch and there it is.  How is that ripping you off? Maybe you can elaborate some on that. 
And why not just pay the "mere" 15 bucks to get the DLC's?

[GreenSoda]

[inappropriate cartoon removed]

EDIT: Removed inappropriate cartoon.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 08 novembre 2009 - 08:37 .

[Danman500]

yea was confussed reading all this .... i mean the story (for me so far) has been long and without any character trying to get me to buy DLC - and if it really bothers you don't buy the DLC ? ...there is plenty of other stuff to be done...leveling, side quests etc ...+ the DLC is only like 1 other mission

[Undead Hunter 27]

addiction21 wrote...

Sunagwa wrote...

 I think it's definetly messed up that they had downloadable content from the release of the game.

 Theres simply no way to deny what they are doing, witch is ripping us off. They should have waited at least a month or two before releaseing there withheld content to make it seem somewhat believable...

 With that said, single player rpgs are my absoloute favorite genre and regardless of what they did I wasn't going to miss out on this game for an mere $15 extra for the CE...but thats just me...

The DLC team was and are typically a seperate team apart from the main game.  Bioware has stated they wanted to get some stuff out for people at launch and there it is.  How is that ripping you off? Maybe you can elaborate some on that. 
And why not just pay the "mere" 15 bucks to get the DLC's?

Totally agree with that as come on the wardens keep isn't that much.  $7 to buy and really how can that be a rip off 


 

[Duerkos]

I agree with the basis, but the original poster does not make rational judgement. You don't take into account all the game offers, only small bits where it isn't good (such as the models, personally that's a thing that is not important to me).

I won't pay for ANY additional game content. Why? Well, let's see, the game is 50€. They give a lot of things with it : A world concept, several models, combat system, graphics motor, and a large etcetera. In addition, they give you a large campaign, with all the quests, different characters, videos... Well, that's only part of the game, actually. What percentage? perhaps 50%? -> 25€

So now, they offer me partial content who is not (by far) as big as the original campaign. Why should I buy it?

Also, I'll give you something to ponder, the toolset bioware is giving to the users will generate lots of campaigns and mods, and perhaps in time some of them will be as big as the main campaign. They'll surpass the additional content without doubt. And that's also part of the game, and one of the main reasons why I bought this game.

I see a discrepance there, EA culture probably forced the whole idea of DLC content, but the old Bioware way of doing things is giving us this powerful toolset.

Go with whatever you want, I won't buy the additional content because I don't see it deserves it (if you compare it to the lots of things the original game offers) , and the game also offers the toolset wich will be used to create lots of adventures, and very interesting ones. Free.

PD: Well, if 6 months from now a very large campaign is out , and is DLC but with a good price... but that would be like the 25 € I consider the actual campaign is worth.


PD2: About the actual NPC that says that... Well, that's a total failure. And it is not necessary, if EA is so desperated to include that , it would be a better practice to make the last DLC contents appear in a small box in the intro game menu. More people will see it, and almost no one will get infuriated. Also, it would be very easy to change what DLC content is shown.

Modifié par Duerkos, 08 novembre 2009 - 02:50 .

[Jens]

Slipfeed wrote...

northernNether wrote...

I don't really mind too much, but it makes me wonder if having the NPC show up AFTER purchasing the DLC, would have users taking this a whole lot better.

It feels as if we paid $50 for the game, to have to pay an additional fee to access a part of the purchase. Whereas downloading and paying for DLC and then having the NPC tell you about the quest would have made it seem like a reward, instead of a mandatory payment for the quest.

DLC available on day 1 ....

Someone went... "Hey guys, we can pull half this crap out, charge full price for what's left and sell the extra later".
Then someone else went. "Why not just start now?  $$$ woohoo! these idiots will never know!"

I rage.

Seriously.  $15.00 for the shale dlc?  Then to include it in the box, and put a price tag on it anyway?

Then to price wardens keep at $7.00

Am I the only one that see's the sales pitch here?

"Regularly 75.00, but CALL NOW!!! for only 19.95!!!!"

I paid $20 for NWN:HOTU - that's 10 hours more gameplay for 2 bux less