31 réponses à ce sujet

[kalpain]

So this was really weird to me.  My second play through was mostly a Renegade (3.5 bars Renegade & 1.75 bars Paragon at the time).  When I did Samara's mission I talked to the guy at the entrance about music, danced with the asari using the Paragon option and then confronted the Turians sitting in the lounge area by the bar.  Was given a choice between Paragon and Renegade and chose the Renegade options.  Immediately after that I was approached by Morinth.  We talked for a while and using mostly Renegae choices I fairly quickly went back to her place.  When it came time for her to try to seduce me I was presented with only one choice.  The "I can't... think..." one.  Both of the Paragon and Renegade choices were grayed out.  Which was weird enough but then it didn't give me an option to pick between her or Samara.  The cut scene where Samara jumps in just continued to play  through as if I had decided to kill Morinth.  Very strange.  Anybody else have this happen to them?

[Ascendantios]

your paragon/renegade score has to be extremely high to use the additional options when talking when Morinth in her apartment. in addition, you cannot choose to kill Samara unless you use those options each time you are given the opportunity. the reason this happens in your second playthrough is that you do not get the roughly 100+ paragon/renegade points you do when you import an ME1 character.

[Cookie775]

The amount of Paragon/Renegade points you need depends on how late in the game (I'm assuming it's based on your character level) you do it. The higher your level, the more para/rene points you need to unlock those options.

On my first playthrough I couldn't get it, I even tried it dead last with a FULL paragon bar and it didn't give me the options. On my second playthrough, I did Samara's Loyalty as soon as I could get it, I had maybe 2 bars of Paragon and all the options were available to me. On every subsequent playthrough, if I did it early, I had no trouble getting the dialogue options.

You need to select the paragon/renegade options to unlock the Morinth/Samara choice.

TLDR: Do it earlier in the game/at lower level.

Modifié par Cookie775, 03 mars 2010 - 05:22 .

[Ecael]

None of the posts above are entirely accurate; however, there is a reason why doing missions earlier can allow you to pass the Paragon/Renegade check.

Kim Stolz (BioWare) recently revealed the secret behind Paragon and Renegade in one of the technical support forums. The game basically keeps its own hidden bar of the maximum amount of Paragon or Renegade you can get every time you enter an area. It then takes a percentage of that hidden bar to calculate how much you need at that moment to pass the check. The more times you miss a possible place to get Paragon or Renegade, the more checks you eventually fail. The more checks you fail, the more you miss getting Paragon or Renegade. It's a snowball effect.

To simplify: The game keeps track of all of your missed opportunities in getting Paragon or Renegade in every single area. If you start falling behind, you will most likely never catch up. You HAVE to continuously act Paragon OR Renegade. This becomes much easier if you start out with an import bonus from ME1 for those extra Paragon/Renegade points.

In addition, the ship arguments have different percentages. Miranda/Jack is easier to resolve with Renegade and Tali/Legion is easier to resolve with Paragon. That import bonus provides a safety net in case you miss some opportunities. Doing the mission earlier can be slightly in your favor only because you haven't missed as many opportunities yet.

EDIT: Miranda/Jack is easier Renegade, Tali/Legion is easier Paragon. My mistake!

Modifié par Ecael, 05 mars 2010 - 02:48 .

[kalpain]

Ok, this makes more sense now. My first play through was an ME1 import so I probably got a boost from that. But both times I did it very late in the game. My last loyalty mission actually. I wasn't going to try to recruit Morinth I just thought it was odd to not even get the choice. Probably for the best since my Renegade couldn't help but succumb to her abilities.

[kalpain]

Ecael wrote...

None of the posts above are entirely accurate; however, there is a reason why doing missions earlier can allow you to pass the Paragon/Renegade check.

Kim Stolz (BioWare) recently revealed the secret behind Paragon and Renegade in one of the technical support forums. The game basically keeps its own hidden bar of the maximum amount of Paragon or Renegade you can get every time you enter an area. It then takes a percentage of that hidden bar to calculate how much you need at that moment to pass the check. The more times you miss a possible place to get Paragon or Renegade, the more checks you eventually fail. The more checks you fail, the more you miss getting Paragon or Renegade. It's a snowball effect.

To simplify: The game keeps track of all of your missed opportunities in getting Paragon or Renegade in every single area. If you start falling behind, you will most likely never catch up. You HAVE to continuously act Paragon OR Renegade.

In addition, the ship arguments have different percentages. Miranda/Jack is easier to resolve with Paragon (apparently human women listen to reason better than cold logic) and Tali/Legion is easier to resolve with Renegade. This becomes much easier if you start out with an import bonus from ME1 for those extra Paragon/Renegade points. That import bonus provides a safety net in case you miss some opportunities.

Doing the mission earlier can be slightly in your favor only because you haven't missed as many opportunities yet.

Didn't see this while writing my last post...

Makes sense but I'm one of those people that never misses an opportunity to do either Paragon Renegade action.  At least when presented with the Red or Blue options on the left.  Now the regular options on the right I will occasionally do a neutral choice if I feel the situation calls for it.  But for the most part it's either the top or bottom choice.

Something similar happened with Zaeed.  Even though I did his mission fairly early on I never got the Paragon option after saving the refinery workers.  Even played through doing more Paragon options to try to build it up more but I was never able to catch up.  As  must have tried his mission 7 or 8 times through out the game hoping I had enough to still win his loyalty but during that play through I never did catch up.

[lukky19]

so??? what I must do .. =D sorry I'am from czech rep and can't speak english well

[davidshooter]

It's a little annoying that in order to avoid being penalized later in the game by conflicts you can't resolve you have to be either heavily renegade or heavily paragon on every play through. It removes the possibility of just making the replies that you as the player think are most appropriate in each situation. In playing the game the first bunch of times I was just responding based on what I knew was necessary to keep my crew loyal - sort of defeats the purpose of "choice" the game prides itself on.

[sickblaze]

Ecael wrote...


In addition, the ship arguments have different percentages. Miranda/Jack is easier to resolve with Paragon (apparently human women listen to reason better than cold logic) and Tali/Legion is easier to resolve with Renegade. This becomes much easier if you start out with an import bonus from ME1 for those extra Paragon/Renegade points. That import bonus provides a safety net in case you miss some opportunities.

Doing the mission earlier can be slightly in your favor only because you haven't missed as many opportunities yet.

As a Renegade I was able to resolve the Miranda/Jack argument, but not able to resolve the Tali/Legion argument, so I was under the impression that the Tali/Legion argument must have been easier to resolve with Paragon than Renegade. I ended up favoring Legion because he's way cooler.

And also on this playthough, Jack's loyalty mission was the very last one I did, and like I said, I resolved her and Miranda's argument no problem (as a Renegade).

Modifié par sickblaze, 04 mars 2010 - 01:30 .

[Ecael]

sickblaze wrote...
As a Renegade I was able to resolve the Miranda/Jack argument, but not able to resolve the Tali/Legion argument, so I was under the impression that the Tali/Legion argument must have been easier to resolve with Paragon than Renegade. I ended up favoring Legion because he's way cooler.

And also on this playthough, Jack's loyalty mission was the very last one I did, and like I said, I resolved her and Miranda's argument no problem (as a Renegade).

Oops. My mistake. It's the other way around.

[Urazz]

davidshooter wrote...

It's a little annoying that in order to avoid being penalized later in the game by conflicts you can't resolve you have to be either heavily renegade or heavily paragon on every play through. It removes the possibility of just making the replies that you as the player think are most appropriate in each situation. In playing the game the first bunch of times I was just responding based on what I knew was necessary to keep my crew loyal - sort of defeats the purpose of "choice" the game prides itself on.

The save game editor is pretty goodfor this actually.  You can edit the amount of renegade/paragon points you have so you can play how you want.  You can also edit your resources and credit amounts too thus avoiding mineral scanning and having to do bonus missions for cash.  I suggest it after you beat the game the first time if you want to play the way you want after beating the game and don't want to waste time on doing the 'extra' stuff in follow up playthroughs.

Modifié par Urazz, 04 mars 2010 - 01:42 .

[The Red Winger]

It is frustrating on a second playthrough. They have designed it that you can't actually role play a NG+ character. you are forced to be a hardline renegade or paragon. every time. here's the link to the topic in technical support.
http://social.biowar...97668/4#1483520

[davidshooter]

Urazz wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

It's a little annoying that in order to avoid being penalized later in the game by conflicts you can't resolve you have to be either heavily renegade or heavily paragon on every play through. It removes the possibility of just making the replies that you as the player think are most appropriate in each situation. In playing the game the first bunch of times I was just responding based on what I knew was necessary to keep my crew loyal - sort of defeats the purpose of "choice" the game prides itself on.

The save game editor is pretty goodfor this actually.  You can edit the amount of renegade/paragon points you have so you can play how you want.  You can also edit your resources and credit amounts too thus avoiding mineral scanning and having to do bonus missions for cash.  I suggest it after you beat the game the first time if you want to play the way you want after beating the game and don't want to waste time on doing the 'extra' stuff in follow up playthroughs.

I'm on a 360 though - wish I could change that stuff.

[kalpain]

davidshooter wrote...

Urazz wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

It's a little annoying that in order to avoid being penalized later in the game by conflicts you can't resolve you have to be either heavily renegade or heavily paragon on every play through. It removes the possibility of just making the replies that you as the player think are most appropriate in each situation. In playing the game the first bunch of times I was just responding based on what I knew was necessary to keep my crew loyal - sort of defeats the purpose of "choice" the game prides itself on.

The save game editor is pretty goodfor this actually.  You can edit the amount of renegade/paragon points you have so you can play how you want.  You can also edit your resources and credit amounts too thus avoiding mineral scanning and having to do bonus missions for cash.  I suggest it after you beat the game the first time if you want to play the way you want after beating the game and don't want to waste time on doing the 'extra' stuff in follow up playthroughs.

I'm on a 360 though - wish I could change that stuff.

Me too.  I wish there was an option in the game (or at least after you beat it) that enable you to have the option to select any decision from the wheel.  There are times when I want to be renegade but only have paragon option and vice versa.  Not to mention my problem this playthrough with Zaeed and Samara.  Admittedly I can see where a not as experienced Shepard could fall under Morinth spell but there is no way I shouldn't have been able to Renegade Zaeed into being loyal.  None at all.  If I can Renegade my way to shop discounts I ought to be able to Renegade another badasses loyalty...

[VirtualAlex]

I am upset with how they designed it also however if you really think about it, it isn't a big deal.



Succeeding in the Mornith check is only important if you want to Kill samara. I guess it's worth doing once but on the second playthrough it's not really something you need. If you can't resolve one of the fights on the Ship who cares? I mean you can still do the final missions with no deaths even if 1 person isn't loyal. I wish I had more freedom also, but even if I miss checks it doesn't bother me much, the only one that is important to me is Zaeed's loyalty but I always do that first and it's easy.



Also you can wear the Death Mask for a +10% bonus. Although it apparently only works when you are WEARING IT so not when in casual clothes. I have never seen that confimed though.

[VirtualAlex]

Admittedly I can see where a not as experienced Shepard could fall under Morinth spell but there is no way I shouldn't have been able to Renegade Zaeed into being loyal.  None at all.  If I can Renegade my way to shop discounts I ought to be able to Renegade another badasses loyalty...

Are you kidding? Scaring a cashier to give you a discount and intimidating an already hard-boiled-shot-in-the-face merc to do your bidding aren't EVEN in the same ballpark. You need to be a super badass to win a badass's loyalty.

[kalpain]

True I just didn't realize much my ME1 bonus effected the Paragon Renegade options. My 2nd playthrough wasn't an import so I started noticing these odd things that I hadn't had to deal with before. I did Zaeed's loyalty after getting Garrus and Mordin and still didn't have enough Paragon. Played half way through the game and still didn't have enough. Now not really a big deal just an odd playing experience. Especially when dealing with Morinth when through out that mission I had access to both. And then the game seemed to go on auto-pilot. So that was weird.



Here is a question though. If the Death Mask gives you a bonus does that mean an even bigger discount when you try to paragon renegade option to get one? I haven't tried that yet.

[Bigdoser]

Ecael wrote...

None of the posts above are entirely accurate; however, there is a reason why doing missions earlier can allow you to pass the Paragon/Renegade check.

Kim Stolz (BioWare) recently revealed the secret behind Paragon and Renegade in one of the technical support forums. The game basically keeps its own hidden bar of the maximum amount of Paragon or Renegade you can get every time you enter an area. It then takes a percentage of that hidden bar to calculate how much you need at that moment to pass the check. The more times you miss a possible place to get Paragon or Renegade, the more checks you eventually fail. The more checks you fail, the more you miss getting Paragon or Renegade. It's a snowball effect.

To simplify: The game keeps track of all of your missed opportunities in getting Paragon or Renegade in every single area. If you start falling behind, you will most likely never catch up. You HAVE to continuously act Paragon OR Renegade.

In addition, the ship arguments have different percentages. Miranda/Jack is easier to resolve with Paragon (apparently human women listen to reason better than cold logic) and Tali/Legion is easier to resolve with Renegade. This becomes much easier if you start out with an import bonus from ME1 for those extra Paragon/Renegade points. That import bonus provides a safety net in case you miss some opportunities.

Doing the mission earlier can be slightly in your favor only because you haven't missed as many opportunities yet.

Makes alot more sense now.

[VirtualAlex]

I still don't think it makes sense. I prefer to just think it scales with my level... Ignorance is bliss I guess heh.

[Ecael]

VirtualAlex wrote...

I still don't think it makes sense. I prefer to just think it scales with my level... Ignorance is bliss I guess heh.

Well, leveling is very linear in ME2. Essentially, if you just follow the story, it will feel like it's scaling with your level - much like the enemies scaling with you.

[Finraelin]

Use the save game editor to set your paragon / renegade scores on a NG+. Lets you focus more on role-playing a character and how he would respond to a situation. Less like being in a RP straitjacket, forced to be a monochromatic stereotype hero/villian.

[kalpain]

VirtualAlex wrote...

Admittedly I can see where a not as experienced Shepard could fall under Morinth spell but there is no way I shouldn't have been able to Renegade Zaeed into being loyal.  None at all.  If I can Renegade my way to shop discounts I ought to be able to Renegade another badasses loyalty...

Are you kidding? Scaring a cashier to give you a discount and intimidating an already hard-boiled-shot-in-the-face merc to do your bidding aren't EVEN in the same ballpark. You need to be a super badass to win a badass's loyalty.

I missed this comment before.  This is actually part of my point.  Playing as a Renegade doesn't give you enough juice to get Zaeed's loyalty and still save the refinery workers but playing as a Paragon does.  This made no sense to me at all.  If Shepard is supposed to be as big of, if not bigger, badass as Zaeed why wasn't there a corresponding Renegade option to win his loyalty.   Not to mention his Paragon reaction (if you have enough points) is probably one of the most badass moves he does in the whole game.  Certainly more badass than a lot of his Renegade reactions. To me it seemed counter intuitive.

[VirtualAlex]

You need to be more specific I am not sure what you mean. I have never saved the people as a renegade. I guess the rengade option is to just kill Vido and forget the colonists. I agree that is much too cold-hearted a move for the savior of the galaxy to pull, even if he is renegade. I am confused though. Are you saying you didn't have enough renegade points to win his loyalty after letting Vido go? Or that there is NO renegade option at all?



Also what badass paragon reaction are you talking about? Shepard pulling a gun on Zaeed?

[cruc1al]

As far as I know there is no renegade option for winning over Zaeed after saving the workers. There is only the paragon option. However, I've heard that if you've beat the collectors already and then do Zaeed's quest, you are given the renegade option to leave him in his misery after saving the workers.

Modifié par cruc1al, 06 mars 2010 - 12:59 .

[kalpain]

Hmm, I suppose I was sort of vague. See the Renegade "let the people burn" option is in the middle of that mission (but it's not one of the red or blue kind) but if you decide that is too extreme for even a "mostly renegade" Shepard at the end of the mission there is no corresponding Renegade option to try to still earn his loyalty. And consequently having that higher % of Renegade points makes it impossible to do the blue Paragon option that enables you to get his loyalty. Having done it as a Paragon I actually thought all the **** talking and putting the gun to Zaeed's head and the ominous voice was pretty bad ass for a Paragon Shepard reaction. Considering he is usually more calm and understanding when you select a blue choice. At least it seems that way to me. I still associate the blue options more with charm since that is what you built up in the first game. His reaction in this case came off to me as a lot more intimidating than what I would usually associate with a blue choice.

So to bring it full circle (hopefully) it was odd to me that both the blue and red options were locked out (or grayed out rather) when confronted by Morinth seductions in my mostly Renegade Shepard play through. Considering the game during that mission had given me both blue and red choices for everything else I had to do.

The way the game seems to calculate this stuff baffles me. But that could just be my own crazy internal logic...

Modifié par kalpain, 06 mars 2010 - 01:15 .