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[Mallissin]

1126thmp wrote...

I always felt Shepard was like the Leviathan from Thomas Hobbes. Always there to keep things from descending into anarchy, or chaos. Staving off the dark tomorrow.

Yah, I made the same association after reading the book's description on Wikipedia. Between the reference in ME and some of the other books I found critiquing Hobbes, it seems like a worthwhile book to read. Gonna grab a copy from the library!

kaff33nd wrote...

1126thmp wrote...



I always
felt Shepard was like the Leviathan from Thomas Hobbes. Always there to
keep things from descending into anarchy, or chaos. Staving off the
dark tomorrow.

Actually, taken from the viewpoint of
Hobbes' Leviathan, I would say (indeed I have already said) that
Cerberus is most likely to be Leviathan, and TIM is Hobbes'
'sovereign'.  I actually said TIM was the Leviathan of Dis, but Hobbes'
version is almost too perfect an analogy to pass up.



Thanks for
the mention.  Hobbes' work is possibly influential in BioWare's
development of certain ideas. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

WTF? I mentioned Hobbes two pages ago and don't see
anything where you spoke of him. Everyone just ignored me.

References to the Divine Comedy, Aeneid and Leviathan all orbit around Hell. And yet my suggestions to look at the Hades systems for plot clues was rebuffed!

PSSSH! I hope a galaxy DOES collide into you!

Modifié par Mallissin, 16 mars 2010 - 03:29 .

[Mallissin]

kaff33nd wrote...

greggorypeccary wrote...

How does the Shadow broker fit in?. I beleive there is a major role for him in ME3

What "Shadow Broker"?  He's a myth perpetuated by TIM as a means of diverting attention away from him and onto the supposed Shadow Broker.  A convenient scapegoat.

There is supposition that the Liara DLC that'll come out eventually will have you killing the Shadow Broker. So, it will most likely not be in ME3 and it's not really a myth either. Liara's no fool!

[GhostDieM]

Heh I like your theory koff33nd, at first i thought you got it from the wiki pages or something... nice writing

[kaff33nd]

@Mallissin - sorry mate... I didn't mean that I equated TIM with Hobbes' Leviathan, but was agreeing that it could be an influential version. What I did say somewhere here was that I thought TIM may be the Leviathan of Dis. Also, I read so many TIM/Reaper/Collector/Cerberus/Shadow Broker theories that they tend to all blur together.

No offense or oversight was intended toward you or anyone else. I value everyone's (thoughtful) opinions and theories.



@GhostDieM - thankyou

[kaff33nd]

Also Mallissin, it'll be interesting to see if Shep really does end up killing the SB, and indeed, whether it's actually the SB or a clever decoy set up by TIM (or someone else).

[Habelo]

I got the strong feeling that the shadow broker is the council. All that talk about how the shadow broker got all the ambassadors to pay heavy ass money for leverage seems like the most clever tax ever.

[1126thmp]

kaff33nd wrote...

1126thmp wrote...

I always felt Shepard was like the Leviathan from Thomas Hobbes. Always there to keep things from descending into anarchy, or chaos. Staving off the dark tomorrow.

Actually, taken from the viewpoint of Hobbes' Leviathan, I would say (indeed I have already said) that Cerberus is most likely to be Leviathan, and TIM is Hobbes' 'sovereign'.  I actually said TIM was the Leviathan of Dis, but Hobbes' version is almost too perfect an analogy to pass up.

Thanks for the mention.  Hobbes' work is possibly influential in BioWare's development of certain ideas.

You are very right. I take your view point now far more to be the answer. Thanks for putting it that way. TIM being the Sovereign, excellent. All others being his devices to control the 'chaos' of the world. Love games that make us think.

[GhostDieM]

Hey guys,

Got a pm asking for the link to Joseph Campbell and The Hero's Journey theory which ME has so much similarity's with. So for anyone else that's interested in this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces - This one is about Campbell and his book.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth - This one is about the stages in the Hero's story (the pattern that ME loosely, hope I spelled that right, follows).

Enjoy

Hope it's alright to post stuff like this, can never be *rsed to read 'Tha Rules' :innocent:

[kaff33nd]

Thanks Ghost.

[Mallissin]

I blame you for this non-sense, Kaffend. YOU!

http://www.cerberusdailynews.com/?p=74

[kaff33nd]

Wow, they're quite strange. Aren't they?