178 réponses à ce sujet

[Cody]

Instead of going around looking for ammo on the battle field or using upgrades that slow the cooling rate on the guns down to a ridiculous rate(it has to end sometime)the guns should have a built-in water-cooling system that can flush the weapon with coolant in order to
bring it down to safe levels should the guns overheat. Like in Gears of War 2 when using thew chain gun for example. Of course while doing this the gun can't fire so in the end you would still have infinite ammo while having to reload every now and then.

This would leave room for "realistic" gun fights as well as compromise for those who want the "infinite" ammo system from ME1 and for those who liked the thermal clip system from ME2.

Anyone else agree with this? Post your thoughts everyone.

[Arhka]

They should've just given us infinite thermal clips. It would've made sense. Just discharge the heat sink whenever it over heats

[Aradace]

Arhka wrote...

They should've just given us infinite thermal clips. It would've made sense. Just discharge the heat sink whenever it over heats

This.  Basically have it the way it is now only infinite heat sinks.  That way, we still have to "change magazines" but not have to worry about running out of ammo.  I could be wrong but, the way the current ammo system is, methinks it smells pretty badly of EA.  Correct me if Im wrong but, wasnt it originally planned that the only weapons that had a finite (for those not familiar with the word yes, I did mean Finite and not Infinite.  Basically, its the opposite of Infinite) amount of ammo were heavies?  As I said, the change over to a "traditional" system stinks very much of EA imo.

[Spiratic]

The new ammo system wouldnt work with infinite sinks, finite sinks give combat a more urgent feel, and encourage skill over spray. Basically you would be taking combat backwards into the joke it was in ME1(even though I loved me1 for the rp elements the combat was laughable when you could just spray the **** out of your spectre x assault rifle with dual frictionless and NEVER have to worry about overheat). A better system to satisfy both crowds would probably be a passive cooldown(like the first one) that takes forever to reduce once you do overheat combined with extremely limited heat sinks so that combat still feels urgent and you still need to think about playing tactically.

[Robbie529]

I do think that the future technology should be advanced enough that overheating is no longer an issue.

If space flight is possible, why are the guns still overheating?

[iOverRateD]

CodyMelch wrote...

Instead of going around looking for ammo on the battle field or using upgrades that slow the cooling rate on the guns down to a ridiculous rate(it has to end sometime)the guns should have a built-in water-cooling system that can flush the weapon with coolant in order to

This would leave room for "realistic" gun fights

water cooled guns are realistic? yah, sure, there was at one point, a water cooled machine gun, where the operators had 2 ppl controlling it, with one carrying a water tank... what happens when you run out of water? just pee on it like soldiers did back in the day, before going to air cooled or multi-barreled guns?

edit: or switching out barrels in the middle of a gun battle to place a cool barrel in?

Modifié par iOverRateD, 03 mars 2010 - 06:28 .

[Daeion]

Spiratic wrote...

The new ammo system wouldnt work with infinite sinks, finite sinks give combat a more urgent feel, and encourage skill over spray. Basically you would be taking combat backwards into the joke it was in ME1(even though I loved me1 for the rp elements the combat was laughable when you could just spray the **** out of your spectre x assault rifle with dual frictionless and NEVER have to worry about overheat). A better system to satisfy both crowds would probably be a passive cooldown(like the first one) that takes forever to reduce once you do overheat combined with extremely limited heat sinks so that combat still feels urgent and you still need to think about playing tactically.

The way ammo is implimented now it's infinite anyways because there are heat clips everywhere, and I certainly didn't feel that it added a sense of urgency to the combat.  Here's an idea, don't use double frictionless, use some of the other mods that do various things?  All BW had to do was remove the ability to set up your weapon like this and then bam, no more spray and pray because you're weapon is going to overheat and then the enemy just closes in on you.

[Atmosfear3]

I like the current system just fine. Some people are delusional if you honestly believe you can fire any sort of projectile (that can kill) without some sort of heat buildup whether its bullets or lasers.

[Daeion]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

I like the current system just fine. Some people are delusional if you honestly believe you can fire any sort of projectile (that can kill) without some sort of heat buildup whether its bullets or lasers.

What's your point?  The first system had heat build up as well.

[Avissel]

The only change I would make would be to give the Hand Cannon a few more rounds. Love that thing buy any missed shots really start to hurt.

[Daeion]

Avissel wrote...

The only change I would make would be to give the Hand Cannon a few more rounds. Love that thing buy any missed shots really start to hurt.

Isn't that the point of an ammo system though?

[Avissel]

Yes it is, I'm not saying give it 600 rounds, just just like one more "clip" before it's empty would be nice.

[ExtremeOne]

Thermal clips work perfectly fine.

[MarloMarlo]

I vote no to dumbing down the combat any closer to ME1's level. Thermal clips are fine.

[Fjordgnu]

What I would like to see is a hybrid of the two systems. It makes sense that if you're not going to get in a firefight for a while, or you're plain out of extra clips, you're able to leave it in and allow it to cool by itself. Unless, of course, they overheat to the point where leaving it in would damage the weapon.



Also, environment should affect how long it takes for weapons to cool. In a vacuum, heat is transferred only as radiation, and so should take longer than in a place with an atmosphere. There should also be a difference between very hot and very cold locations.

[Avissel]

Fjordgnu wrote...
Also, environment should affect how long it takes for weapons to cool. In a vacuum, heat is transferred only as radiation, and so should take longer than in a place with an atmosphere. There should also be a difference between very hot and very cold locations.

While this would be the most logical way. It would take more time to create and integrate this system than it would be worth.

[ExtremeOne]

Fjordgnu wrote...

What I would like to see is a hybrid of the two systems. It makes sense that if you're not going to get in a firefight for a while, or you're plain out of extra clips, you're able to leave it in and allow it to cool by itself. Unless, of course, they overheat to the point where leaving it in would damage the weapon.

Also, environment should affect how long it takes for weapons to cool. In a vacuum, heat is transferred only as radiation, and so should take longer than in a place with an atmosphere. There should also be a difference between very hot and very cold locations.

  



The ME 1 combat system was broke and part of that was the ammo system in it. Bioware fixed it in ME 2. If you do not like ME 2 its real simple go back and play ME 1. Thermal clips work better and are more logical. 

[Cody]

iOverRateD wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

Instead of going around looking for ammo on the battle field or using upgrades that slow the cooling rate on the guns down to a ridiculous rate(it has to end sometime)the guns should have a built-in water-cooling system that can flush the weapon with coolant in order to

This would leave room for "realistic" gun fights

water cooled guns are realistic? yah, sure, there was at one point, a water cooled machine gun, where the operators had 2 ppl controlling it, with one carrying a water tank... what happens when you run out of water? just pee on it like soldiers did back in the day, before going to air cooled or multi-barreled guns?

edit: or switching out barrels in the middle of a gun battle to place a cool barrel in?

Congratulations, you just missed the ****ing point. What everyone else is saying is basically exactly what I said. Play gears of war 2 (or check out gameplay videos) and watch gameplay footage of the chain gun. This is exactly what I am getting at. If you read up the description of the chain guns from Gears of wars 2 then you would see what I mean. Also note how I quoted "realistic" which is an obvious point not too take realistic to seriously seeing as talking about.

As many others are saying exactly what I am saying just in differen words. It would indeed be a good idea to basically leave the gun system as it is BUT instead of having to change to a new thermal clip, give us the option to, you know, give us the ability to efect the thermal clip to allow it to cool. Again what other are saying. It would make us have to"reload" or in this case make us cool the gun down faster. But still have some sort of infinite ammo. Or like others have said "finite".

Also this is nowhere near "dumbing" it down to ME1 combat.....anyone thinking this needs to reread the first post that i made and use their brains. This is still using the same system as ME2 just no looking around the battle field for more ammo clips. You still need to "reload" except the reloading is more of a quicker way to cool your gun down. Looking for ammo for heavy weaps is understandable seeing as they need more power in order to work right.

Modifié par CodyMelch, 03 mars 2010 - 08:04 .

[SmokePants]

Ammo capacity is an intrinsic part of combat balance. The Viper gets 60 rounds (and high rate of fire), because it has weak damage per shot compared to the Widow. But what good is capacity when you have infinite ammo or regenerating ammo?

Look, most players don't know what's good for them. If a game regenerates 1 bullet every 10 seconds, a lot of players will just sit and wait for that round to chamber, pop-up, shoot, and wait again. They won't be aggressive, use a variety of weapons, or feel a sense of reward for managing their pool of finite resources efficiently. They'll just sit and shoot and sit and shoot -- like zombies -- and they'll either become numb to the tedium or they'll curse the game for making them do it, but they'll continue to do it, because it's the easiest way.

Infinite ammo does have its uses in other types of games, but for what ME is trying to be, I think it's clear that strictly finite ammo is the superior choice.

[Fjordgnu]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Fjordgnu wrote...

What I would like to see is a hybrid of the two systems. It makes sense that if you're not going to get in a firefight for a while, or you're plain out of extra clips, you're able to leave it in and allow it to cool by itself. Unless, of course, they overheat to the point where leaving it in would damage the weapon.

Also, environment should affect how long it takes for weapons to cool. In a vacuum, heat is transferred only as radiation, and so should take longer than in a place with an atmosphere. There should also be a difference between very hot and very cold locations.

  



The ME 1 combat system was broke and part of that was the ammo system in it. Bioware fixed it in ME 2. If you do not like ME 2 its real simple go back and play ME 1. Thermal clips work better and are more logical. 

I think you missed my point entirely. I like thermal clips, and it makes sense from a physics perspective, but so does having them cool down over time - basically for ammo to slowly regenerate when you're not shooting. It might be cheap from a gameplay perspective, but you're the one who brought up logic.

[Daeion]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Thermal clips work perfectly fine.

The ME system worked perfectly fine as well for people who knew that ME wasn't meant to be a shooter and didn't try to break the system by doing something that BW obviously didn't intend for people to do.

[Daeion]

MarloMarlo wrote...

I vote no to dumbing down the combat any closer to ME1's level. Thermal clips are fine.

Yes because sitting behind cover is so much harder...

[Daeion]

Fjordgnu wrote...
Also, environment should affect how long it takes for weapons to cool. In a vacuum, heat is transferred only as radiation, and so should take longer than in a place with an atmosphere. There should also be a difference between very hot and very cold locations.

True, but it's not like we really encountered a lot of varied locations like we did in ME, I don't remember ever running around on an ice planet in ME2.

[Daeion]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Fjordgnu wrote...

What I would like to see is a hybrid of the two systems. It makes sense that if you're not going to get in a firefight for a while, or you're plain out of extra clips, you're able to leave it in and allow it to cool by itself. Unless, of course, they overheat to the point where leaving it in would damage the weapon.

Also, environment should affect how long it takes for weapons to cool. In a vacuum, heat is transferred only as radiation, and so should take longer than in a place with an atmosphere. There should also be a difference between very hot and very cold locations.

  



The ME 1 combat system was broke and part of that was the ammo system in it. Bioware fixed it in ME 2. If you do not like ME 2 its real simple go back and play ME 1. Thermal clips work better and are more logical. 

No, the combat system wasn't broken until people decided to break it but using double frictionless materials, until then you still had to wait for weapons to cool down so it had the same effect as ammo clips, ie ME waiting for a weapon to cool down was equal to reloading a weapon.  You really need to get over yourself and thinking you have a right to tell people to go play another game, people paid ther $50-$60 just like you and have the right to voice their opinion.  How do thermal clips make any sense for the future?  Essentially what you are saying is that weapons will not have advanced in the 150+ years from now until when the ME universe takes place.

[Daeion]

SmokePants wrote...

Ammo capacity is an intrinsic part of combat balance. The Viper gets 60 rounds (and high rate of fire), because it has weak damage per shot compared to the Widow. But what good is capacity when you have infinite ammo or regenerating ammo?

Look, most players don't know what's good for them. If a game regenerates 1 bullet every 10 seconds, a lot of players will just sit and wait for that round to chamber, pop-up, shoot, and wait again. They won't be aggressive, use a variety of weapons, or feel a sense of reward for managing their pool of finite resources efficiently. They'll just sit and shoot and sit and shoot -- like zombies -- and they'll either become numb to the tedium or they'll curse the game for making them do it, but they'll continue to do it, because it's the easiest way.

Infinite ammo does have its uses in other types of games, but for what ME is trying to be, I think it's clear that strictly finite ammo is the superior choice.

With a regeneration system capacity still comes into play via the fact that you still have a finite number of shots until overheat and then at that point you need to switch to another weapon or wait for it to cool down, same effect as reloading a clip.

As for people being being more defensive and not changing weapons, some people prefer that play style, not every one is going to play that way though, just like not everyone played with double frictionless materials.  Also, if someone is sitting in cover for 10 seconds between shots, the enemy is going to be moving in on them and will force them to either fall back or switch to another weapon and fight back.

Are you really telling me you get a sense of reward for managin a system that is already as close to infinite as it can be without being infinite?  Infinite ammo works perfectly fine for mass effect, in fact, ME is probably the perfect game for it since ME is not a shooter.