132 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaenier]

I am pretty sure you need 2 relays to make it work. The conduit was a one way relay and it still had an end terminal.

It seems easier to keep a tunnel open from both ends. citadel could be so advanced, it can keep both ends open, who knows. Its just more likely to have a giant relay out in darkspace.

[Vaenier]

JaegerBane wrote...
There isn't anything in there that says the turian councillor isn't actually Bill Gates in disguise and the Reapers are the result of exposing an unsuspecting species to Windows 10.

Damn you Windows! Damn you!

[TheUnusualSuspect]

JaegerBane wrote...

Ladies and Gentleman, Eric Cartman has left the building.

Weak!

[Murmillos]

From what I believe, the mass relay on the Citadel side is powered off, thus, no relay, even the one in Dark Space is able to "talk" to it. The reason it is shut off; is so no race can detect it. Since they know how all the other relays work, if they detected the same signal coming from the Citadel, then they would investigate - and thus finding out the whole game. But if its off, then the Citadel is just that, a Citadel and nothing else.

Thus, the Reaper who is then given command to hang back and keep a tab on things until the time is right - is able to provide the signal to the Citadel which in turns "activates" the Keepers to do what ever it takes to power up the Citadel's relay. Once the Citadel's relay is active, a relay-to-relay message is send and before anybody else on the Citadel catches on - the Reapers are pouring in from Dark Space.

All relays need two points, your starting relay which does the work of propel the objects, and the end relay which basically serves as the "This is where I am - bridge to me" locater. Much like a game of Marco Polo. As long as the two can communicate, they can safely toss vessels to and fro. If one goes quiet, then one is unable to toss to it.

And the drift/IFF issue is just what we see in todays GPS.  Civilian grade GPS devices are purposefully degraded while Military GPS devices retain full precision.

Modifié par Murmillos, 06 mars 2010 - 02:23 .

[Sad Dragon]

Lets say the relays can just send a body of mass without a clear end destination - which is not a compleetly illogical assumption. It would stand to reason that drift would increase as probably wouldnt have the same stable connection as you would have when the relay opperates point-to-point.



I can buy that the first time the reapers headed out to dark space this MIGHT have been the option they used - though personaly i wouldnt have used that opption as drift would probably be so great that the reaper fleet would be scattered - wouldnt they then build a relay in darkspace so that subsequent times they had a more stable connection?To me that would be the logical thing to do.



As far as someone stumbling upon them whilest they sleep - they could just power down their relay and apply the same restrictions to the citadel mass relay as every other relay. Powering of the citadel relay would be benifitial for the reasons that Murmillos stats above. When the signal is sent to activate the citadel the reapers boots up their relay and ... instant galaxtic invation.



just my thoughts on the subject.



/TSD

[JaegerBane]

TheUnusualSuspect wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Ladies and Gentleman, Eric Cartman has left the building.

Weak!

Shouldn't you be sat at home sulking right now?

[JaegerBane]

Sad Dragon wrote...

I can buy that the first time the reapers headed out to dark space this MIGHT have been the option they used - though personaly i wouldnt have used that opption as drift would probably be so great that the reaper fleet would be scattered - wouldnt they then build a relay in darkspace so that subsequent times they had a more stable connection?To me that would be the logical thing to do.

Well, the fact still remains that they must have gotten out there at some point. I doubt drift in that context woul have been that much of an issue - there's just nothing else out there to crash into.

There is, of course, one rather sobering concept that no-one seems to have hit upon yet.

The question assumes that the Reapers must have had to have flown out of the galaxy to take refuge. What happens if the Reapers didn't actually start off in this Galaxy?

[Clumber]

TheUnusualSuspect wrote...

Just putting it out there, from the in-game Codex:

http://masseffect.wi...-Relay_Assaults

Space Combat: Trans-Relay Assaults

The crucial choice for any attack through mass relays
is how to divide the fleet for transit. The accuracy of a relay's
mass-projection depends on the mass being moved and how far it’s going.
Any long distance and/or high mass jump will see "drift". That is, a
ship may be hundreds or millions of kilometers from its intended drop
point, in any direction from the relay.
Distance can't be chosen by admirals, but a relay is told how
much mass to transit. For example, if told to move a million metric
tons of mass, the relay will scan the approach corridor, find four
250,000-ton freighters, and transit them together, maintaining their
relative positions.
....

That explains it in pretty good detail, that it really is just the singular mass-relay that's creating the corridor, and the mass-relay then puts ships into it.   Makes no mention of the other end doing anything at all, so the logical assumption is that mass-relays create a corridor in the direction of another mass-relay purely out of design and convenience, and not for any actual reason to needing the end-point relay to do anything to terminate the corridor.

ie.  A mass-relay just creates the corridor, and puts you in it.

Seems VERY plausible to me that a citadel sized relay would just create a corridor into dark space where the reapers are, and the reapers have the ability to enter the corridor without needing a mass relay to get them into it.  They are, after-all, exceptional craft and about the size of a Mass Relay themselves and have been shown to do things in ME1 that are impossible by existing sapient life technology.

But anyway, there you have it.  A single-end creates the corridor.  For normal ships, the relay assist you into the corridor.  It isn't much of a stretch to believe that the Reapers can put themselves into a corridor given their size and the fact that they built the Relays.  If the relays don't activate unless the other end is activated, than that appears to be more of a safety mechanism, such as if it fell into a sun or planet, and you don't want to be blindly launched into a sun/planet unless the other end is active and says that the transit is safe.

Ok, all up, I reckon I've presented a substantial amount of evidence using in-game canon to prove my side of the argument.  Most nay-sayers here have provided nothing but opinion or a steadfast inablity to move beyond a limited interpretation.

I look forwards to Mass Effect 3 Canon clearing this up, unless of course a Bioware writer wants to jump in here and lay some smack-down sooner....

Alright, let's assume for a second you are completely right here. Say you do only need the one mass relay to send something and the other to 'catch' it. Let's say the 'catching' relay is completely unnecessary. You just proved your entire earlier argument wrong.

All you did was say that the Reapers don't need the Citadel since it's only an unnecessary "catching" relay, which means they would still need a Relay in darkspace to "throw." So based on your logic, they HAVE to have a relay in dark space and it could have been used at any time to get to the galaxy.

Saying that you can enter a relay backwards has no support in any codex entries or anything, and the section you quote above seems even to suggest, by your own admission, that the "throwing" relay is much more important to travel than a "catching" relay.

So with the evidence YOU yourself presented us, there are two possibilities.

A. Two mass relays are needed and the Reaper plans are foiled for now until they activate the Citadel Relay or come up with a new form of travel altogether

OR

B. Only one mass relay is needed in which case the Reapers could have invaded at any time, but decided not to because they want to hit the Citadel first. And they have been sitting around for thousands of years because they, for some reason, just can't do it any other way and it would be more advantageous to have the enemy forewarned and preparing.

You tell me which of those two would be more likely.