151 réponses à ce sujet

[Andaius20]

See but she can be tasked to anything and be effective. Your way completely take out the double/triple team aspect, and each companion is only good at one attack. so that means if say everyone has shields Mordin can't attack effectively until you take down those shields. While a Miranda/garrus team could take out X2 as many shields. Also unstable warp is the area effect version like incen blast right?

also Miranda "answer" to those little boni are her squad level boosting abilities to IIRC everything.

Modifié par Andaius20, 04 mars 2010 - 08:59 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

No it doesnt

[JaegerBane]

tonnactus wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...


That would depend on your class, tonnactus. It would be good if you actually made sure you understand the debate you're taking part in.

Engineer with warp ammo.Infiltrator with warp ammo.Sentinel.And Adept with Energy Drain.
So tell me your examples.

*sigh*

So you spit out a set of classes that with specific bonus talents taken to maximise their versatility and then ask when would be the best time to use a team mate that depends on being versatile. I'm sure you think you're being sly, tonnactus, but it's coming across about as subtle as a brick. Am I supposed to assume that the reason that you're playing no classes that lack techs is just sheer coincidence?

Well anyhow...

Miranda makes a good squad mate in the Garrus rec mission for Adepts. There is a significant number of situations in that where enemies start off bunched up, but in numbers. One of the fastest ways of dispatching them is to do a Gatsby, and slide a singularity into their paths as they come at you (Eclipse rush, initial Blood pack placement). Having Miranda there will give you a quick way of nuking the lot which occurs while your own powers are cooling down. Neither Sing or Warp have to be at high levels to damage them. The same mission has large numbers of shielded Eclipse and Regen Krogan/Vorcha, and since for at least part of that mission you can only have one team mate, she excels here.

Miranda is useful on Korlus. Krogan Bezerkers and Blue Suns at varying ranges can be an annoyance to deal with even for an infiltrator, instant hitting Overloads and Warps are most welcome and give you a bit of leeway in choosing your third henchman.

Miranda is very useful on Haestrom - there's an abundance of targets that are either shielded or armoured but, unfortunately, they come in sizes varying from drones to Collossi at completely different ranges. It fo course, depends on when you do this mission, I generally do it first thing after Horizon - the options I have for it are limited. Picking Miranda covers me for dealing with this and allows me to go for a straight tank like Grunt, who's significantly tougher than Garrus and Jacob and is unaffected by the sunlight but lacks specific skills.

Of course, if you're playing a character classes that also draw most of their worth from being versatile, then clearly a versatile team mate is going to be of less worth. Soldiers and Vanguards would draw far more use from her on the latter two stages.

[JaegerBane]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

The issue at hand is that the OP think she is the best.

You are argueing versitile, which is it?

I'm not convinced that she is the best. There is no 'best' squad mate, as what you need from a squad is dictated by which class you are.

[tonnactus]

Andaius20 wrote...




Also unstable warp is the area effect version like incen blast right?

Wrong.Only the radius for warp explosion is bigger.(but that needed another biotic)

also Miranda "answer" to those little boni are her squad level boosting abilities to IIRC everything.

Wrong.They boost weapon damage and health.Thats it.Pitty bonuses.

[Andaius20]

While I would say your right Jaeger the thing is with Miranda's abilities you simply can't go wrong. She strips all defenses, can do biotic combos, and give you squad wide buffs. While yes I'm sure you can get stronger combo's of companions for specific tasks.

However if you just look at all the companions and there abilities generally She's a good candidate for the "best" for the very fact she can work with anyone with little to no drawbacks. Thats my reasoning, and the OP's too I believe.

• Health: +20.00%
• Weapon Damage: +25.00%
• Squad Health: +7.50%
• Squad Weapon Damage: +15.00%

I wouldn't call those "pittiful".

Modifié par Andaius20, 04 mars 2010 - 09:29 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Andaius20 wrote...

While I would say your right Jaeger the thing is with Miranda's abilities you simply can't go wrong. She strips all defenses, can do biotic combos, and give you squad wide buffs. While yes I'm sure you can get stronger combo's of companions for specific tasks.

However if you just look at all the companions and there abilities generally She's a good candidate for the "best" for the very fact she can work with anyone with little to no drawbacks. Thats my reasoning, and the OP's too I believe.

But thats the point isnt it......Every mission is squad specific.

[Andaius20]

Not necessarily Thane, Most are fairly open to interpretation with a variety of companions, and styles. Miranda is just as good a choice as any one other choice for any situation. So while you list of effectives would grow or expand with mission parameters Miranda would always be on the list no matter what.

Modifié par Andaius20, 04 mars 2010 - 09:33 .

[tonnactus]

JaegerBane wrote...




Miranda makes a good squad mate in the Garrus rec mission for Adepts. There is a significant number of situations in that where enemies start off bunched up, but in numbers. One of the fastest ways of dispatching them is to do a Gatsby, and slide a singularity into their paths as they come at you (Eclipse rush, initial Blood pack placement). Having Miranda there will give you a quick way of nuking the lot which occurs while your own powers are cooling down. Neither Sing or Warp have to be at high levels to damage them. The same mission has large numbers of shielded Eclipse and Regen Krogan/Vorcha, and since for at least part of that mission you can only have one team mate, she excels here.

You dont have to help garrus on the bridge.You could close the doors with Spepardt + 2 squadmembers.
So i can use jacob for warp explosions.Pull has a shorter cooldown than warp on squadmembers.Sheaprdts warp has a six second cooldown instead of 12 for miranda.So jacobs pull + shepards warp is better then singularity + mriandas warp.

Miranda is useful on Korlus. Krogan Bezerkers and Blue Suns at varying ranges can be an annoyance to deal with even for an infiltrator, instant hitting Overloads and Warps are most welcome and give you a bit of leeway in choosing your third henchman.

Garrus has overload.And incinerate is better against armor and could be used more frequently then warp.How often i have to explain this???

Miranda is very useful on Haestrom -

The best combo for heastrom:Zaeed with squad disruptor and garrus.Zaeed has also the inferno grenade at this time,what is usefull against armor.

[Karstedt]

Biotics are really gimped. I think they should patch it so that the only defense that blocks them are barriers. That would make the squad mates a bit more even. It makes no sense that an armored or even shielded opponent would be immune to biotics. And how disappointing is it that perhaps the most powerful human biotic is useless? Going through that recruitment mission is just a setup for the biggest letdown of the game.

[tonnactus]

Karstedt wrote...

Biotics are really gimped.

Compared with the first mass effect?Yes.Compared with the powers of other classes?No.Singularity stasis harbringers and scions,making them something to laugh about.The best playthrough on insanity was the one with the adept for me.

[JaegerBane]

tonnactus wrote...
You dont have to help garrus on the bridge.You could close the doors with Spepardt + 2 squadmembers.
So i can use jacob for warp explosions.Pull has a shorter cooldown than warp on squadmembers.Sheaprdts warp has a six second cooldown instead of 12 for miranda.So jacobs pull + shepards warp is better then singularity + mriandas warp.

Again actus, you're missing the point. I'm not saying there is only one way to do the sections I mentioned. I'm saying that Miranda gives you the maximum freedom to accomplish the mission how you wish.

Besides, you can't use Jacob for Warp Explosions if you don't have Warp.

Garrus has overload.And incinerate is better against armor and could be used more frequently then warp.How often i have to explain this???

*sigh*

Yes, actus, I'm aware Garrus has overload. He doesn't have any anti-armour abilities which is kind of a problem on that map (unless you've unlocked AP ammo). The only way I can bring Incinerate if I don't have it myself is to bring Mordin, and he's a poor choice for this section as he can't do anything to shields, nor can he WE. Meaning that if I need to carry out Warp Explosions, I'm stuck doing it all myself.

As for 'how often you must explain this'.... I haven't got a clue as to what the hell you're talking about. Unless you're going to try and claim I can use incinerate to cause a Warp Explosion, I'm not really sure what pearl of wisdom you think you have here.

The best combo for heastrom:Zaeed with squad disruptor and garrus.Zaeed has also the inferno grenade at this time,what is usefull against armor.

Tonnactus, 'the best combo' for anything is defined by what class you are and what skills you've set out. I don't really understand why you're having such a massive problem grasping this. The above combo would be sub-optimal if I was playing a Soldier or an infiltrator, not to mention the possibility that I may not have Squad Disruptor on Zaeed at the time. Inferno grenade isn't even that effective against armour, the fragments fly everywhere without any real control...

The entire point that is being made here, however, is that no matter what class you are, what skills you have, or who else you bring, Miranda is never the worst choice.

To be honest actus, I'm getting a bit sick of having to thrash this out in painstaking detail. It's a simple point to understand.

[We Tigers]

tonnactus wrote...
Wrong.They boost weapon damage and health.Thats it.Pitty bonuses.

This has come up a couple times in the thread, and I don't really get it.  Does everyone ignore the last two damage upgrades for every weapon type, too?  Each of those only gives you a 10% bonus to weapon damage.  If you go with Cerberus Leader, Miranda is essentially providing 1.5 weapon damage upgrades for every weapon type. 

There are no other characters whose passive abilities boost your squad stats.  Power damage and cooldown on individual characters is great, but it's not like they're mutually exclusive with Miranda's bonuses.  You do get to use two party members.

[JaegerBane]

We Tigers wrote...

tonnactus wrote...
Wrong.They boost weapon damage and health.Thats it.Pitty bonuses.

This has come up a couple times in the thread, and I don't really get it.  Does everyone ignore the last two damage upgrades for every weapon type, too?  Each of those only gives you a 10% bonus to weapon damage.  If you go with Cerberus Leader, Miranda is essentially providing 1.5 weapon damage upgrades for every weapon type. 

There are no other characters whose passive abilities boost your squad stats.  Power damage and cooldown on individual characters is great, but it's not like they're mutually exclusive with Miranda's bonuses.  You do get to use two party members.

As I mentioned before, I find the claim alone that they're 'insignificant' to be somewhat dubious, as you're quite correct, she's effectively applying a temp upgrade.

When you consider that it's just a side effect to boot, you have to wonder why it's just being disregarded. Particularly when one of the guys claiming she's rubbish is advocating I take a team of Garrus and Zaeed. Cool, conflicting ammos, redundant amount of concussive blasts and the worst fire-based power in the game. Yup.

[Karstedt]

Gabeker wrote...
The problem is if you have your squadmate concentrate fire using Q &E is they usually end up leaving cover and then dieing even if you parked them.

I hate that shizznit! I liked the separate move and attack commands for squadmates in ME1.

[Urazz]

JaegerBane wrote...

When you consider that it's just a side effect to boot, you have to wonder why it's just being disregarded. Particularly when one of the guys claiming she's rubbish is advocating I take a team of Garrus and Zaeed. Cool, conflicting ammos, redundant amount of concussive blasts and the worst fire-based power in the game. Yup.

Zaeed's inferno grenade is actually pretty good as far as squad powers go.  It sucks for players though because it requires aiming and that is fairly hard to do.

[padaE]

I never gave Inferno Granade a big chance... only used it on level 2, I'll give it a shot now.

.

But as far as I saw and read it won't take armor down like Incinarate or Warp.

[implodinggoat]

Tali is way more useful than you guys are giving her credit for. Energy Drain is basically the equivalent of overload, so she's a good option against any enemy with shields and with AI hacking she is obviously very useful against any synthetic enemy. Additionally combat drone is an underrated power which is very useful for distracting enemies, particularly if you upgrade it to an attack drone which makes it effective against armor, barrier, health and shields. Enemies will focus on a combat drone instead of Shepard so it can really save your ass against powerful enemies.



I recommend a build which gives her, level 4 area energy drain, level 4 attack drone, and level 3 AI hacking. If you set her up like that you'll find she's very effective against Geth, Mechs, Blue Suns, and Eclipse.



That said she is extremely ineffective against the Collectors, Husks, Scions, and Praetorians as well as Blood Pack mercs. So on the final mission she's a very poor choice for your squad.

[tonnactus]

[quote]JaegerBane wrote...



Besides, you can't use Jacob for Warp Explosions if you don't have Warp.
[quote]
Decide what you want.You talk about gatsby and singularity+warp explosions.

[quote]
Yes, actus, I'm aware Garrus has overload. He doesn't have any anti-armour abilities which is kind of a problem on that map (unless you've unlocked AP ammo).
[/quote]
Some people refuse to understand.
Garrus role in this section is to strip shields.Mordins role is to strip armors.Adepts and sentinels have warp as Talents.
Infilfiltrators and Engineers have incinerate for amor.Soldiers have disruptor for shields and inferno ammo.
Anti-armor talents are covered there with mordin and shepardt.



[quote]
Tonnactus, 'the best combo' for anything is defined by what class you are and what skills you've set out. I don't really understand why you're having such a massive problem grasping this. The above combo would be sub-optimal if I was playing a Soldier or an infiltrator, not to mention the possibility that I may not have Squad Disruptor on Zaeed at the time. Inferno grenade isn't even that effective against armour, the fragments fly everywhere without any real control...
[/quote]
Get your numbers right.Inferno is more effective against armor then a upgraded warp (even with biotic upgrades)
Heavy inferno:100 points over 4 seconds
Heavy warp:200 points
And unstable,what a player should always choose(because of the reduced cooldown) is even more weaker.
And soldiers have inferno ammo power and disruptor,infiltrators disruptor.They dont need miranda even there.


[Quote]
The entire point that is being made here, however, is that no matter what class you are, what skills you have, or who else you bring, Miranda is never the worst choice.


[/quote]
But never the best.She isnt the number one.Not even close.

Modifié par tonnactus, 05 mars 2010 - 11:29 .

[tonnactus]

Urazz wrote...

Zaeed's inferno grenade is actually pretty good as far as squad powers go.  It sucks for players though because it requires aiming and that is fairly hard to do.

Some people should look at some numbers.Its better then warp against armor. and have a impact raduis from the start.Warp dont have some,only in explosions in combination with other biotics.
The damage is higher too.

[Little Paw]

I loved the grenade...used it on my play through until the end, when I switched to armor piercing.

[thisisme8]

If anyone has been following my videos recently, you know that I think Jack is #1 most awesome squaddie. I have nothing to back it up aside from her Shockwave being the most useful power to me in almost every situation.



I know, sounds odd, but hey, I lub it.

[Arde5643]

Hey, if I can like shockwave for my insanity vanguard and adept, why won't you like Jack's shockwave that doesn't take away points from your build.



I think Jack's also a very awesome squadmate for the adept as well.

[Morning_Star]

I would probably put Samara and Legion a star higher, but your list is spot on. Miranda was definitely the most useful character. Tali, Jacob, and Jack were definitely the most useless.

Modifié par Morning_Star, 06 mars 2010 - 02:56 .