97 réponses à ce sujet

[CC-Tron]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

I personally don't see why Jacob gets so much hate. I always liked having him around.

Its cause hes black.

That's certainly one reason.

[Vaenier]

CC-Tron wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

I personally don't see why Jacob gets so much hate. I always liked having him around.

Its cause hes black.

That's certainly one reason.

Could be he trys to get in your pants whever you just say hi to him... Or it could just be bad bioware writing...

[Chamberboozer]

Sledge454 wrote...

Illusive man ackbar!

You're doing it wrong.

[Rynozeros]

LuckyIronAxe wrote...

Gun for Hire would be more appopriate

I don't the ring that term has.

how about

Slaughter Specialist?
Obliteration Operative?
or even
Monsieur Murder?

[CC-Tron]

Vaenier wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

I personally don't see why Jacob gets so much hate. I always liked having him around.

Its cause hes black.

That's certainly one reason.

Could be he trys to get in your pants whever you just say hi to him... Or it could just be bad bioware writing...

Maybe your seeing things that aren't there. It's Shephard that comes on strong to Jacob in the dialogue options. Not the other way around. Jacob actually seems uninterested initially in pursuing a romance. Shephard flirts hard right from jump. So actually it's Shephard's dialogue that's poorly written but Jake gets the blame. Shep's romances usually come across cheesy any way. Oh yeah Bioware could have done a better writing job.

Modifié par CC-Tron, 04 mars 2010 - 01:50 .

[Cascadus]

Jalem001 wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

LuckyIronAxe wrote...


aww AWW, so much Jacob hating! He's a good man, he wants to do the right thing, and he couldn't do it in the Alliance because all they do is bog you down in red tape, and if they are really pissed off at you, they ground your ship.

Doesn't that just make him Garrus lite?  Except without the sexy voice and sniper rifle?

No.  Garrus is renegade.  One mishap away from becoming a shell of a man.  Jacob is paragon and while somewhat bitter and cynical, still hopeful for the future.  With Garrus you get the feeling that he's begining to believe that nothing HE does (That means without Shepard leading) will succeed.  Jacob has more heart.

Garrus would sacrifice innocents if it ment taking down someone horrible without blinking.  Jacob would try to find a better way and only do it if it was woth the cost and there was no better alternative.

They're similar, but not the same.  Garrus is going down a darker parth.

Uh, sorry, but did you even do anything really concerning Garrus's romance? Garrus isn't Renegade. Not really. He's not as cynical and 'you must die now' as Renegade Shepard is. Sacrifice innocents? Uh, remember? No civilian casualties, that was his rule. He avoided them to avoid being 'just another gang' but rather a group meant to try and take down the merc groups. He was taking down a bunch of horrible people, but never an innocent casualty. Garrus isn't cynical. Much rather, he's idealistic. He thinks maybe if he did enough, he could really dent Eclipse/Blue Suns/Blood Pack, and while in many ways he did, he also never significantly changed anything. That is being idealistic.
On that note, I've gone off my original path. If you pursued his romance, then you'd obviously know he's hardly 'becoming a shell of a man'. He's same old Garrus, a little jaded from what he saw on the Terminus Systems and took a Few Levels in Badass, but he's still Garrus. Hopeful of the future, relatively optimistic and overall hardly heading to a 'darker path'.
So please don't assert Garrus is any more Renegade as Jacob is and that 'he would sacrifice innocents' because the fact is? That's about as ignorant as me saying Jacob is stupid because he ignored the red tape of the Alliance and joined Cerberus instead.

Modifié par Cascadus, 04 mars 2010 - 01:53 .

[Skilled Seeker]

But the priiiiiize...

[keegdarv1]

CC-Tron wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

I personally don't see why Jacob gets so much hate. I always liked having him around.

Its cause hes black.

That's certainly one reason.

Could be he trys to get in your pants whever you just say hi to him... Or it could just be bad bioware writing...

Maybe your seeing things that aren't there. It's Shephard that comes on strong to Jacob in the dialogue options. Not the other way around. Jacob actually seems uninterested initially in pursuing a romance. Shephard flirts hard right from jump. So actually it's Shephard's dialogue that's poorly written but Jake gets the blame. Shep's romances usually come across cheesy any way. Oh yeah Bioware could have done a better writing job.

I dont fine them coming across cheesy sure theirs some lines sure that do but as a whole its fine when he sometimes says something cheesy i just throw it up as hes a guy we do that sometimes, the Jacob romance is just wrong but thats not Jacobs fault

[Madecologist]

I think the real problem is Bioware loves to put in the party doubter. Alistiar in DA:O does it too. Half the recruitable characters he whines about. Jacob is that guy in ME. He is gonna **** and moan about half the people you try to recruit, and try to be chummy with the other half.

Problem 1) You notice he tends to play nice to only Mordin and the females (Samara/Tali), and gets all mopey with Grunt, Legion, and Thane. Males.. hmm I wonder.. (okay Legion is not male.. but comes off maleish). 2) Well the complaints always comes from the same character. This results in the character becoming whiney and annoying to the player. I swear by the time I got to Legion I wanted to grab Jacob and Miranda and bonk their heads on each other and scream "SHUT UP YOU TWO!!". Obsviously lead to a few moments like this, where people think Jacob is hypocritical.

I never agreed having the same character be the complainer.. unless it is Alistair which is okay, he was suppose to be whiney and suited his character.

[CC-Tron]

LuckyIronAxe wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Maybe your seeing thing that aren't there. It's Shephard that comes on strong to Jacob in the dialogue options. Not the other way around. Jacob actually seems uninterested initially. Shephard flirts hard right from jump. So actually it's Shephard's dialogue that's poorly written.  Shep's romance usually comes across cheesy any way. Oh yeah Bioware could have done a better writing job.

True, Jacob does have some cringe worthy lines, but It was the rabid flirtations of Femshep that started it all.

Exactly.

[tropicalwave]

For the most part I like Jacob but there are two parts that he is a real ass. The Thane recruitment and with Tali. Especially with Tali he did everything her could to get under her skin because she kept pointing out that he was working for Cerberus.



After what TIM did to the Migrant fleet was pretty f'ed up. I wouldn't blame them for hating him and holding a grudge. The funny thing is he sounded much more sympathetic when you recruit Legion and he says "Tali is going to love this." I actually felt like he was on her side there.



the part that bothered me about those two scenes was it seemed way out of character from everything else I saw in dealing with Shepard. Besides the fact that it is his employer that is picking the people not Shepard.

[wako58]

I've posted on this subject many times in many threads yet like everything else here on this forum it keeps getting repeated. The problem is how the femshep romance with him is written and how people decide to blame Jacob for that interaction. Femshep is the one that comes off like a sleaze, but I have resigned myself to the fact that a character with a lot of potential from ME Galaxy is doomed to oblivion based upon a poorly written romance. He saved the Citadel, by himself, should have been more of Spectre candidate that Garrus ever was but that potential is lost.



Lessens my enjoyment of the game somewhat but not enough for me not to consider this one of the best, if not the best, game I've ever played.

[CC-Tron]

tropicalwave wrote...

For the most part I like Jacob but there are two parts that he is a real ass. The Thane recruitment and with Tali. Especially with Tali he did everything her could to get under her skin because she kept pointing out that he was working for Cerberus.

After what TIM did to the Migrant fleet was pretty f'ed up. I wouldn't blame them for hating him and holding a grudge. The funny thing is he sounded much more sympathetic when you recruit Legion and he says "Tali is going to love this." I actually felt like he was on her side there.

the part that bothered me about those two scenes was it seemed way out of character from everything else I saw in dealing with Shepard. Besides the fact that it is his employer that is picking the people not Shepard.

Tali was the ass in that scene. Jacob showed her courtesy and respect just like Mordin, Samarra and Garrus.  Jake works for cerberus but isn't a zealot for TIM. He doesn't treat aliens any different than humans. Mordin, Samarra and Garrus didn't get all bent out of shape but Tali acts like a **** in return "don't play nice".  Jacob let her off easy by being sarcastic with the EDI comment before she went out. No one forced her to join Cerberus and Shephard is just as much with Cerberus as Jake.

Modifié par CC-Tron, 04 mars 2010 - 02:43 .

[Deztyn]

Missed this earlier.

CC-Tron wrote...

Sure if you leave out Jacob's noble intentions, the skills he provides besides combat for Cerberus, Thane specifically killing people for a living and that's pretty much the only skill he provides to earn a living
then there isn't much difference.  However that's a hell of a lot to leave out to make pot meet kettle.

. . . you're leaving out the fact that Thane was trained from early childhood by his government to be an assassin. You are also leaving out the fact that Thane goes after Nassana and joins Shepard due to a desire to make the galaxy a better place. You are leaving out a few things to make your point, which seems to be "Jacob can do no wrong."

Besides, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"  It led Jacob to join Cerberus, a terrorist organization responsible for the destruction of numerous human colonies and other terrible acts. He and others in your crew  might feel that decision is justified because they disagree with the way the Alliance and/or Citadel Council handles things, but that still doesn't give him the moral authority to judge others.

Edit: Tali has good reason to hate Cerberus, and how involved with Cerberus Shepard is depends on the player. My Sole Survivor certainly won't trust anyone affiliated with Cerberus, and like Tali that's for good reason.

Modifié par Deztyn, 04 mars 2010 - 02:21 .

[XxCITIZENxX]

Nuclear_Xmas wrote...

token black guy?

This.

[wako58]

Deztyn wrote...


Missed this earlier.

CC-Tron wrote...

Sure if you leave out Jacob's noble intentions, the skills he provides besides combat for Cerberus, Thane specifically killing people for a living and that's pretty much the only skill he provides to earn a living
then there isn't much difference.  However that's a hell of a lot to leave out to make pot meet kettle.

. . . you're leaving out the fact that Thane was trained from early childhood by his government to be an assassin. You are also leaving out the fact that Thane goes after Nassana and joins Shepard due to a desire to make the galaxy a better place. You are leaving out a few things to make your point, which seems to be "Jacob can do no wrong."

Besides, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"  It led Jacob to join Cerberus, a terrorist organization responsible for the destruction of numerous human colonies and other terrible acts. He and others in your crew  might feel that decision is justified because they disagree with the way the Alliance and/or Citadel Council handles things, but that still doesn't give him the moral authority to judge others.

Edit: Tali has good reason to hate Cerberus, and how involved with Cerberus Shepard is depends on the player. My Sole Survivor certainly won't trust anyone affiliated with Cerberus, and like Tali that's for good reason.

Sorry, but what character doesn't make judgements about another character in this game?  Your Shepard makes them on everyone the entire game.

Modifié par wako58, 04 mars 2010 - 02:25 .

[barbati99]

Nuclear_Xmas wrote...

token black guy?

Token racist organic?

[wako58]

XxCITIZENxX wrote...

Nuclear_Xmas wrote...

token black guy?

This.

Yes, because the gaming world is overwhelmed by them.

Modifié par wako58, 04 mars 2010 - 02:30 .

[wako58]

wako58 wrote...

XxCITIZENxX wrote...

Nuclear_Xmas wrote...

token black guy?

This.

Yes, because the gaming world is overwhelmed by them. I can't play a game today without being confronted with some token black guy....jeez! .

[CC-Tron]

Deztyn wrote...


Missed this earlier.

CC-Tron wrote...

Sure if you leave out Jacob's noble intentions, the skills he provides besides combat for Cerberus, Thane specifically killing people for a living and that's pretty much the only skill he provides to earn a living
then there isn't much difference.  However that's a hell of a lot to leave out to make pot meet kettle.

. . . you're leaving out the fact that Thane was trained from early childhood by his government to be an assassin. You are also leaving out the fact that Thane goes after Nassana and joins Shepard due to a desire to make the galaxy a better place. You are leaving out a few things to make your point, which seems to be "Jacob can do no wrong."

I didn't leave that out. I know about Thane's past. I read the ME wiki article. My point was to explain why Jake had issues with Thane despite being a member of Cerberus himself. Also to show the obvious differences in profession and motivation between the 2 men. I already did that. I never claimed any where Jake could do no wrong. However I did imply there is a significant difference between what Jake does for Cerberus with noble intentions for humanity and Thane does as a  freelance assassin.

[Akeashar]

On the Thane note, whatshername approached him about killing Dantius, he accepted the contract but without payment. You find out through his conversations that he accepted the contract in the hope that he would die, either getting to her or after killing her. When you enter the equation, all that changes.



As to 'Its a terrorist' organisation, you could say that about any shadow organization. I'd call the whole rendition, torture, mine laying, phosphorous weapons on civilians and assassinations that various 'good guy' nations have done in the last decade enough to call themselves that. 'Shock & Awe'? Its all about inspiring terror, people. As long as you're the one doing it, you can pretend that you're the good guys.



Its stated at various times that Cerberus is a large organization with tentacles everywhere, and not everyone, possibly not even the head of the beast, knows what each tendril is up to at any given time. From ME1 and the novels, we're given up close and personal looks at the darker sides of Cerberus, and its pointed out that you kept running into the bad apples. The Normandy 2 is an example of Cerberus operatives that aren't so dark. All the crew are peachy clean, Kelly disturbingly so.



I think Mordin was musing that Cerberus seemed to have changed recently, as if someone else had taken over TIM's role. Not sure if that is true or just something to distract.



Jacob is a soldier, its how he describes himself and it fits his attitude and motives. Hes a soldier, fighting for humanity on the side that will actually listen, make moves for progress and act, unlike the Alliance and the Council.



I for one, hope that in ME3 you can actually choose which side you ally yourself with in the war. Finding myself working for Cerberus was a shock, but in a roleplaying standpoint, theres no reason why my FemShep wouldn't keep working with them as long as they kept themselves in line for the most part. It gave some depth and insight into what had been portrayed as 'we're the bad guys~!'

[Exile Isan]

CC-Tron wrote...
Tali was the ass in that scene. Jacob showed her courtesy and respect just like Mordin, Samarra and Garrus.  Mordin, Samarra and Garrus didn't get all bent out of shape but Tali acts like a **** in return "don't play nice".  Jacob let her off easy by being sarcastic with the EDI comment before she went out. No one forced her to join Cerberus and Shephard is just as much with Cerberus as Jake.

Considering what Cerberus almost did to the Idenna in the book Ascension, I think Tali has every right to be 'an ass' to Cerberus operatives who are constantly saying "oh, well Cerberus wouldn't do anything like that" or "It wasn't me" yet are still part of an organization that did do those things.

For clarification, if you haven't read the book, Cerberus tried to blow up one of the larger ships in the fleet, with god knows how many quarians on board. All to get back a biotic child who had sought out refuge there from abuse at the hands of Cerberus (and you can slice it whatever way you want it was abuse). They risked the safety of the Migrant Fleet, of Tali's people. And since the survival of her species is dependent on the Fleet. I think her hostility can be forgiven.

Samara and Garrus, even Mordin do not have the background with Cerberus to hate them (and Samara even says she doesn't want to know more) the way that Tali does. And Garrus does express his concern at working with them, but only to Shepard.

[Akeashar]

Tali's response to finding out Shepard had joined Cerberus was fully justified, as Exile said. I spent most of the game trying to calm her down about them. I love her line asking if you ordered all the bugs and monitoring sensors if you say Cerberus is working for you.



Here I was thinking all the time, that Jacob had made the world's worst faux pas and had no idea how she'd react to finding out there was an AI on the ship. The Death Glare from her was priceless. To think that Jacob would deliberately try and upset her with that one is unforgiveable! ^^

[superimposed]

CC-Tron wrote...

Exile Isan wrote...

Mercenary. Which is why his little rant about Thane is completely hypocritical.

No it's not hypocritical because their motivations are not the same . Jacob's is working for Cerberus to serve humanity without the beauracracy of the Alliance machine to hold him back. He doesn't agree with Cerberus's methods but feels their goals are noble. This also applies to Shephard.

Thane is killing people for no one but himself and not for any noble cause. Which is why he feels so much guilt for his actions. He's a paid assassin and does not choose his targets. Yet he continues to do it.

Well, he killed Nassana, and you saw what she did to the workers she hired. I wonder what who else Thane has killed.