97 réponses à ce sujet

[Deztyn]

CC-Tron wrote...

Deztyn wrote...

Missed this earlier.

CC-Tron wrote...

Sure if you leave out Jacob's noble intentions, the skills he provides besides combat for Cerberus, Thane specifically killing people for a living and that's pretty much the only skill he provides to earn a living
then there isn't much difference.  However that's a hell of a lot to leave out to make pot meet kettle.

. . . you're leaving out the fact that Thane was trained from early childhood by his government to be an assassin. You are also leaving out the fact that Thane goes after Nassana and joins Shepard due to a desire to make the galaxy a better place. You are leaving out a few things to make your point, which seems to be "Jacob can do no wrong."

I didn't leave that out. I know about Thane's past. I read the ME wiki article. My point was to explain why Jake had issues with Thane despite being a member of Cerberus himself. Also to show the obvious differences in profession and motivation between the 2 men. I already did that. I never claimed any where Jake could do no wrong. However I did imply there is a significant difference between what Jake does for Cerberus
with noble intentions for humanity and Thane does as a  freelance
assassin.

. . . you still seem to have trouble comprehending what I'm saying, maybe I haven't made it clear enough.

To rephrase: There is no significant difference between what Jake does for Cerberus with noble intentions for humanity and what Thane does as a  freelance assassin with noble intentions for the galaxy.

You, much like Jacob seem to think being an assassin automagically disqualifies Thane from being a fundamentally decent person who wants the best for the universe. This is wrong. Just as wrong as saying that because Jacob is a terrorist he can't  want what's best for the galaxy. Jacob's comments make even less sense if he was in your squad when you talk to Seryna and meet Thane (as he was in my first playthrough).

Modifié par Deztyn, 04 mars 2010 - 02:51 .

[CC-Tron]

Exile Isan wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...
Tali was the ass in that scene. Jacob showed her courtesy and respect just like Mordin, Samarra and Garrus.  Mordin, Samarra and Garrus didn't get all bent out of shape but Tali acts like a **** in return "don't play nice".  Jacob let her off easy by being sarcastic with the EDI comment before she went out. No one forced her to join Cerberus and Shephard is just as much with Cerberus as Jake.

And Garrus does express his concern at working with them, but only to Shepard.

Shephard is doing the bidding of Cerberus and Tali knows it. If Tali is so disgusted by Cerberus' past actions she should not have set foot on that ship for Shephard or anybody else. If she's on a cerberus ship, what does she expect? Cerberus not to deal with her? Lock her up? Don't be nice?

Tali don't be stupid.

Modifié par CC-Tron, 04 mars 2010 - 02:52 .

[Sky Shadowing]

Tali openly proclaims she's not working for Cerberus, she's working for Shepard. If she had the chance to blow up Cerberus, she would.

[Exile Isan]

Sky Shadowing wrote...

Tali openly proclaims she's not working for Cerberus, she's working for Shepard. If she had the chance to blow up Cerberus, she would.

She even offers to give Shep a grenade to do it, too.  It's like how Samara says she is working for Shepard as well, not Cerberus. I imagine that Thane feels the same way.

[wako58]

CC-Tron wrote...

Exile Isan wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...
Tali was the ass in that scene. Jacob showed her courtesy and respect just like Mordin, Samarra and Garrus.  Mordin, Samarra and Garrus didn't get all bent out of shape but Tali acts like a **** in return "don't play nice".  Jacob let her off easy by being sarcastic with the EDI comment before she went out. No one forced her to join Cerberus and Shephard is just as much with Cerberus as Jake.

And Garrus does express his concern at working with them, but only to Shepard.

Shephard is doing the bidding of Cerberus and Tali knows it. If Tali is so disgusted by Cerberus' past actions she should not have set foot on that ship for Shephard or anybody else. If she's on a cerberus ship, what does she expect? Cerberus not to deal with her? Lock her up? Don't be nice?

Tali don't be stupid.

You're not going to win an argument with the talimancers.  She can do no wrong even if she does start the exchange with Jacob.

[Cascadus]

She's not working for Cerberus. She's working with Shepard. She says this.
Tali isn't stupid, and her icy treatment of Jacob who was 'playing nice' was entirely justified. You wouldn't of happened to read Ascension have you? Cerberus tortures several quarians, attacks the Migrant Fleet, kills many of their own and attempts to blow up the Idenna all in a bid to capture Gillian Grayson.
How would you feel if some terrorist group, let's say al-Qaeda who had previously done something that struck incredibly close to home and did something pretty much unforgivable and then you're roped in through loyalty to a past friend. Are you REALLY going to treat these ESTABLISHED terrorist group members well even if some dude in said group was nice? Hardly.
How is Shepard 'doing Cerberus's bidding' anyways? They share common interests, and what is Shepard going to do? Walk away as human colonies continue to be abducted? That'd be stupid. All Cerberus does is fund the operation and provide intel. My Shepard doesn't believe she's working for Cerberus. She believes she's working WITH Cerberus. Important distinction.
So no, Tali wasn't an ass. It was a typical reaction and she's not doing it for any loyalty to Cerberus. It's just her faith in Shepard to do what's right kept her there.
Read Ascension then get back to this 'TALI WAS AN ASS AND TREATED JACOB UNFAIRLY'.
Also, inb4peopledeclaremeatalimancerandmyopinionissomehowirrelevantbecauseisidewithtalionthispart
...and also declare me to hate Jacob, which I don't. I don't love him, but I consider him a helluva step-up from Kaidan.

Modifié par Cascadus, 04 mars 2010 - 03:05 .

[keegdarv1]

To tali and a few other on the ship most importantly Shepard thier not a Cerberus ship thier on the new Normandy Shepards Normandy TIM at times calls its Sheaprd shipMthough we know he doesnt think that really> and Shepard calls it his ship a few times, thier is a differnce between do the "bidding" or someone and working with someone and Shepard through 95% of the game has no choice but work with them and the moment he finally can he can go agaisnt Cerberus and choose to do what he wants.



dont say hes doing Cerberus bidding cause thats just wrong

[CC-Tron]

Deztyn wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Deztyn wrote...

Missed this earlier.

CC-Tron wrote...

Sure if you leave out Jacob's noble intentions, the skills he provides besides combat for Cerberus, Thane specifically killing people for a living and that's pretty much the only skill he provides to earn a living
then there isn't much difference.  However that's a hell of a lot to leave out to make pot meet kettle.

. . . you're leaving out the fact that Thane was trained from early childhood by his government to be an assassin. You are also leaving out the fact that Thane goes after Nassana and joins Shepard due to a desire to make the galaxy a better place. You are leaving out a few things to make your point, which seems to be "Jacob can do no wrong."

I didn't leave that out. I know about Thane's past. I read the ME wiki article. My point was to explain why Jake had issues with Thane despite being a member of Cerberus himself. Also to show the obvious differences in profession and motivation between the 2 men. I already did that. I never claimed any where Jake could do no wrong. However I did imply there is a significant difference between what Jake does for Cerberus
with noble intentions for humanity and Thane does as a  freelance
assassin.

. . . you still seem to have trouble comprehending what I'm saying, maybe I haven't made it clear enough.

To rephrase: There is no significant difference between what Jake does for Cerberus with noble intentions for humanity and what Thane does as a  freelance assassin with noble intentions for the galaxy.

Listen Deztyn. I have no trouble at all comprehending what you said. Your rephrase is exactly what I thought you meant when you first stated it. No need to repeat it. The problem here isn't comprehension. It's disagreement. I stated a contrary opinion to yours and I replied to your last post to further clarify my point.  That's all. We don't have to agree you know. It's okay. Really. That's what forums are for. Debating but not always agreeing.

[Exile Isan]

Oh, and for the record I am not a "Talimancer", but she, Garrus, Samara, and Thane are some of my favorite characters in the whole franchise (especially Garrus). That doesn't mean I can't be objective about their chracters.

[keegdarv1]

I like to point out too that your both right and wrong using a paragon Shepard as my exsample here

....but Shepard has a good habbit of looking past the uniform of most people so i for tali worng to judge Jacob of the bat so coldly without knowing a thing about him wrong while using Paragon war hero Shepard<cause sorry to say tali people she starts the "fight"> and thought Jacob was wrong to push her buttons<through the AI comment still makes me laugh alittle i will admit> now i think Tali had a right to be upset and i think Jacob had a right to not just sit thier and take it

[wako58]

Cascadus wrote...

She's not working for Cerberus. She's working with Shepard. She says this.
Tali isn't stupid, and her icy treatment of Jacob who was 'playing nice' was entirely justified. You wouldn't of happened to read Ascension have you? Cerberus tortures several quarians, attacks the Migrant Fleet, kills many of their own and attempts to blow up the Idenna all in a bid to capture Gillian Grayson.
How would you feel if some terrorist group, let's say al-Qaeda who had previously done something that struck incredibly close to home and did something pretty much unforgivable and then you're roped in through loyalty to a past friend. Are you REALLY going to treat these ESTABLISHED terrorist group members well even if some dude in said group was nice? Hardly.
How is Shepard 'doing Cerberus's bidding' anyways? They share common interests, and what is Shepard going to do? Walk away as human colonies continue to be abducted? That'd be stupid. All Cerberus does is fund the operation and provide intel. My Shepard doesn't believe she's working for Cerberus. She believes she's working WITH Cerberus. Important distinction.
So no, Tali wasn't an ass. It was a typical reaction and she's not doing it for any loyalty to Cerberus. It's just her faith in Shepard to do what's right kept her there.
Read Ascension then get back to this 'TALI WAS AN ASS AND TREATED JACOB UNFAIRLY'.

So let me get this straight...you are "welcomed" aboard the Normandy and complemented on your skills by a guy whose organization your friend Shepard is working with/for (if you're renegade) ; and despite the fact that you are being welcomed by this individual right in front of your friend...you still act like a douche to him and not your friend;  and somehow that's all ok?  So any negative reaction you get back in return for your behavior is totally unjustified?

Sorry, having a hard time seeing that.

Modifié par wako58, 04 mars 2010 - 03:14 .

[FreshJuice]

Nuclear_Xmas wrote...

token black guy?

i second that

wierd xzibit movie character, "WHAT'S WHAT" and all that ****, strange way to introduce a black guy to the team
some desperate **** they'll pull for the marketing these days

[wako58]

FreshJuice wrote...

Nuclear_Xmas wrote...

token black guy?

i second that

wierd xzibit movie character, "WHAT'S WHAT" and all that ****, strange way to introduce a black guy to the team
some desperate **** they'll pull for the marketing these days

Troll much?

[CC-Tron]

wako58 wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Exile Isan wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...
Tali was the ass in that scene. Jacob showed her courtesy and respect just like Mordin, Samarra and Garrus.  Mordin, Samarra and Garrus didn't get all bent out of shape but Tali acts like a **** in return "don't play nice".  Jacob let her off easy by being sarcastic with the EDI comment before she went out. No one forced her to join Cerberus and Shephard is just as much with Cerberus as Jake.

And Garrus does express his concern at working with them, but only to Shepard.

Shephard is doing the bidding of Cerberus and Tali knows it. If Tali is so disgusted by Cerberus' past actions she should not have set foot on that ship for Shephard or anybody else. If she's on a cerberus ship, what does she expect? Cerberus not to deal with her? Lock her up? Don't be nice?

Tali don't be stupid.

You're not going to win an argument with the talimancers.  She can do no wrong even if she does start the exchange with Jacob.

   I know. Thanks for the warning wako58. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

[FreshJuice]

wako58 wrote...

FreshJuice wrote...

Nuclear_Xmas wrote...

token black guy?

i second that

wierd xzibit movie character, "WHAT'S WHAT" and all that ****, strange way to introduce a black guy to the team
some desperate **** they'll pull for the marketing these days

Troll much?

well i dont know, what the hell is trolling??

[wako58]

http://en.wikipedia..../Internet_troll

[FlyinElk212]

Nuclear_Xmas wrote...

token black guy?

This.

Also, Jacob was the first person to die in my suicide run.

[Cascadus]

wako58 wrote...

Cascadus wrote...

She's not working for Cerberus. She's working with Shepard. She says this.
Tali isn't stupid, and her icy treatment of Jacob who was 'playing nice' was entirely justified. You wouldn't of happened to read Ascension have you? Cerberus tortures several quarians, attacks the Migrant Fleet, kills many of their own and attempts to blow up the Idenna all in a bid to capture Gillian Grayson.
How would you feel if some terrorist group, let's say al-Qaeda who had previously done something that struck incredibly close to home and did something pretty much unforgivable and then you're roped in through loyalty to a past friend. Are you REALLY going to treat these ESTABLISHED terrorist group members well even if some dude in said group was nice? Hardly.
How is Shepard 'doing Cerberus's bidding' anyways? They share common interests, and what is Shepard going to do? Walk away as human colonies continue to be abducted? That'd be stupid. All Cerberus does is fund the operation and provide intel. My Shepard doesn't believe she's working for Cerberus. She believes she's working WITH Cerberus. Important distinction.
So no, Tali wasn't an ass. It was a typical reaction and she's not doing it for any loyalty to Cerberus. It's just her faith in Shepard to do what's right kept her there.
Read Ascension then get back to this 'TALI WAS AN ASS AND TREATED JACOB UNFAIRLY'.

So let me get this straight...you are "welcomed" aboard the Normandy and complemented on your skills by a guy whose organization your friend Shepard is working with/for (if you're renegade) ; and despite the fact that you are being welcomed by this individual right in front of your friend...you still act like a douche to him and not your friend;  and somehow that's all ok?  So any negative reaction you get back in return for your behavior is totally unjustified?

Sorry, having a hard time seeing that.

Again, refer back to the fact Jacob is a member of Cerberus. Cerberus is a terrorist organziation. Not only that. Cerberus directly threatened the Migrant Fleet. I don't know about you, but if I were in that position I wouldn't be too keen on appreciating members of said organization that much.
She had a perfectly valid reason to mistrust Cerberus, I don't believe it's anything personal to Jacob, but refer to the top of this response.
Regardless, Tali acclimatizes rather well to the Normandy, seeing as how she's rather pleasant towards Ken and Gabby and there are no further conflicts with Jacob. It's a general mistrust of the organization and that outburst was perfectly natural. Not *nice* but natural and justified considering Cerberus's reputation and likewise for it's agents.
I feel like I have to repeat myself. I'm not a Talimancer, not really. Regardless, I'm mostly a FemShep (with a few assorted male Shepards to observe the differences/romances) so it's out of the window regardless. All I'm saying is that Tali was perfectly justified there.  And just before you say anything (because I get this a lot) I don't hate Jacob in the slightest. I don't love him, but he's a solid character and I feel a helluva step up from Kaidan. So yeah. I like him. Think he's a little boring, but I still like him and unlike everyone else, did not proceed to irrationally hate him due to reasons unknown.

[wako58]

@Cascadus



I understand your position and I respect it. I think you've explained the situation from your perspective quite well. I'm not an apologist for the Jacob's interaction with Tali. I just think she contributed directly to the comments she received that's all. I apologize if I gave you a diffferent impression because that was not my intent but as evidenced by all forums, not just this one, it takes two people to make an interaction go badly. I just think Jacob gets a disproportinate part of the blame for this one.

[FreshJuice]

wako58 wrote...

http://en.wikipedia..../Internet_troll

haha ok that explains alot, allright well i agree that i may have been a bit energetic and very slightly went of topic with the last line.

i really Do think he was a typical generic black guy with his story and all snatched from some random blockbuster.
even his looks. except his name, they got that right

Modifié par FreshJuice, 04 mars 2010 - 03:42 .

[wako58]

FreshJuice wrote...

wako58 wrote...

http://en.wikipedia..../Internet_troll

haha ok that explains alot, allright well i agree that i may have been a bit energetic and very slightly went of topic with the last line.

i really Do think he was a typical generic black guy with his story and all snatched from some random blockbuster.
even his looks. except his name, they got that right

No problem.  I agree that they could have done a better job too.

[Deztyn]

CC-Tron wrote...

Listen Deztyn. I have no trouble at all comprehending what you said. Your rephrase is exactly what I thought you meant when you first stated it. No need to repeat it. The problem here isn't comprehension. It's disagreement. I stated a contrary opinion to yours and I replied to your last post to further clarify my point.  That's all. We don't have to agree you know. It's okay. Really. That's what forums are for. Debating but not always agreeing.

I enjoy debating.

I enjoy discussions.

I even enjoy having disagreements, it forces me to continuously reevaluate and refine my own thoughts and opinions. I like challenges. I like learning new things, Hell, I even like being proved wrong about things occassionally.

I certainly believe that everyone else entitled to have their own opinion. But when someone forms an opinion based on information that's incorrect I'm going to disagree, vehemently, and when someone doesn't budge even slightly from that opinion even when given more information, I'm going to conclude they're either stubborn or somehow misunderstanding. You started off in this thread saying that Jacob was right to be critical because Thane only kills for money, has no noble reasons for doing so and killed innocent guards to get to Nassana, sprinkled with various other factual errors about Thane's past and character. To my mind this around the time one should rethink their opinion and consider whether or not it holds up in the face of new information. Clearly you're not very openminded about the character and you're not interested in discussion or debate about this. That's fine. I can agree to disagree.
Have a good day.

Modifié par Deztyn, 04 mars 2010 - 04:36 .