132 réponses à ce sujet

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

The Man Behind the Mask

[Nizzemancer]

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

The Man Behind the Mask

So it's Louis the XIV's bastard brother? Seems a bit far-fetched.

[Pro_Consul]

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Nizzemancer wrote...

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

The Man Behind the Mask

So it's Louis the XIV's bastard brother? Seems a bit far-fetched.

No, I meant The Man Behind the Mask according to Alice Cooper.  That would be Jason Voorhees.  (Which, even if the lyrics don't directly reference Jason, the song was done for the Friday the 13th V soundtrack).

It also makes sense, because they will wipe out the sinful teenagers having premarital sex and prevent it from ever happening again, so Jason and Mother can have a well deserved rest.


As for necroposting, I don't really think Bioware minds much... if the discussion is going to continue, why not keep al the old opinions?   Why make a new post with the same exact topic?   As I said in another thread, this isn't Pirates of the Burning Sea where you can get a 3 day ban and the thread locked by posting in a month old thread.

Modifié par AbsolutGrndZer0, 19 septembre 2011 - 11:46 .

[Unata]

A race of lazy highly advanced technical folks created their own version of the Geth (to do mundane and or dangerous jobs), but something happened to corrupt the programing, and as seen in the Shepard Visions of the beacon encounter, you have living tissue growing into/on/around circuit boards, they were corrupted by a semi living organism or slime if you will, the reapers original programing may well have been to just harvest and that they do in the extreme now it seems.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if Bioware comes up with the history repeating itself deal in that the Geth are tossed out as the example with one difference though, the Geth 'grew' into sentients, I think the reapers were an accident, they are to set doing the same pattern for millions of years, the Geth do many things, even praying if you watch the two in ME1 on Feros before shooting them (reapers don't dance either as Legion does )

[BentOrgy]

Unata wrote...

A race of lazy highly advanced technical folks created their own version of the Geth (to do mundane and or dangerous jobs), but something happened to corrupt the programing, and as seen in the Shepard Visions of the beacon encounter, you have living tissue growing into/on/around circuit boards, they were corrupted by a semi living organism or slime if you will, the reapers original programing may well have been to just harvest and that they do in the extreme now it seems.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if Bioware comes up with the history repeating itself deal in that the Geth are tossed out as the example with one difference though, the Geth 'grew' into sentients, I think the reapers were an accident, they are to set doing the same pattern for millions of years, the Geth do many things, even praying if you watch the two in ME1 on Feros before shooting them (reapers don't dance either as Legion does )

Somehow, I don't think uber-goo is the answer, however, the possibility that the reapers were corrupted is a viable option. I have a theory (No surprise, seeing as most of us came here because we all do.) regarding that idea, but I won't bother with it unless prompted, its floating around here somewhere.

But as for the organic/synthetic, Repo:Genetic Opera-esque montage the beacons showed us; I think they were referring to the Protheans eventual conversion into the Collectors, provided Bioware had thought of them that early on. It would make sense at least, combined with the... "Extended" vision given to us in ME2. (Bad photoshopping aside.)

Modifié par BentOrgy, 22 septembre 2011 - 09:01 .

[Hallusinaatti]

We know how Reapers make themselves, so there could have originally been just one Reaper constructed by space faring civilization X, and as many pointed out the Reapers likely just took over. Another Reaper, or several, made of the creators and they started the cycle to continue reproduction.


Simple.

[Pro_Consul]

Certainly that is a totally viable scenario, and no doubt it has already occurred to the writing crew at BW. But it is rather unoriginal IMO, so I would prefer something different. I would prefer something with real evil in it, rather than just another case of race X accidentally being overcome by their own technology, leaving a mess to haunt others after they are gone.

Imagine a race of ruthless, genocidal conquerors in the dim past. They discover ME tech and use it to wage an unholy war of merciless extermination against all other species in the galaxy. But the other species decide they'd rather not be exterminated this month, thank you very much. So they cook up a little genocide of their own in the form of a sterility plague, similar to the genophage but without the touchy-feely element of trying to maintain the target species at a stable population level. Knowing that they are dying, our plucky do-badders cook up one last plot, a sort of ginormous dying flip-off to the whole effing galaxy. They goo-ify billions of their own people in order to give birth to the first generation of Reapers.

I like that kinda scenario better, where the Reapers of today are seen to be exactly what their original creators wanted them to be: evil, ruthless, penguin-loving bastages.

[Hallusinaatti]

Since we are hypothesizing events here, I would lean for cold, hard plausibilities than what I feel is cool. However I agree that the Reapers could have been intended to be products of War, but I maintain that they were not originally sentient or if they were, their current nature was not intended.

Another thing I consider a likely outcome is that first Reapers were created in the Milky Way. So far Mass Effect has done no effort to poke other Galaxies, not even Andromeda, and I believe it never will. Even in Science Fiction going to other galaxies takes last drops of plausibility out of it - a matter which is one of Mass Effect's strong points.

However what is certain is that someone made the Reapers. By all laws of physics synthetics don't "live". Life needs carbon, oxyden and other such importants. Steel and wires don't just come out of nowhere and start thinking.

[Reaperba2]

well the Reaper's I guess they were build by the keepers. Right??

[Reaperba2]

How about these? The Reapers were build by the Keepers as war machines too concor other gaxies but they got a virus so they got there own reason and hate all biology life so they are killing every fifty thousan years all life for revenge and because they think the new civilaizations will build a virus too control them for there own goals and they return hoping that every new race found a way too destroy a planet soo they can destroy the planets that can build life. So they can destroy the biological life from every galaxies and build a Reaper Empier.

[Pro_Consul]

Hallusinaatti wrote...

However what is certain is that someone made the Reapers. By all laws of physics synthetics don't "live". Life needs carbon, oxyden and other such importants. Steel and wires don't just come out of nowhere and start thinking.

I think you should refine your terms here. There is no law of physics that says that synthetics don't live. Nor is there any law of physics that says that life must be carbon based, use or emit oxygen or any other such conditions. According to all of the most accepted scientific criteria for defining life, Reapers are indeed alive. They regulate their internal environment, which is an organized system that processes chemicals and/or energy in order to maintain that internal organization. They grow, adapt to their environment, respond to stimuli, and are capable of reproduction. That covers all the defining criteria for "life".

By the textbook definition, Reapers do "live". Nor are they completely synthetic, although "synthetic" and "alive" are not mutually exclusive states. Now I can accept a claim that Reapers could not have naturally "evolved", so that their origin as a species is dependent upon the action of another species to create them initially. And speculation about that process of creation is of course the main subject of this thread.

I guess my main point here is that you should not invoke laws of physics and other scientific points unless you are going to be specific enough to do so factually. When you go into speculation, run with it as you like. But when you invoke known science, stick to real facts please.

[d1sciple]

they're the miserable slaves that laboured to help their creators gain ascension and were promised a place in the heavens only to be left behind like dogs.

and yes, science is science, doesn't look good getting it wrong but you could say that all evolution is built on another species interference couldn't you? without prey there'd be no predators and vice versa, nor all the specific physical and mental traits gained through evolution to help a species deal with the environment, threats, the need for energy/food etc. most evolution may be environment based but other, competing species are usually included in the general 'environment'.

[Hallusinaatti]

Pro_Consul wrote...

Hallusinaatti wrote...

However what is certain is that someone made the Reapers. By all laws of physics synthetics don't "live". Life needs carbon, oxyden and other such importants. Steel and wires don't just come out of nowhere and start thinking.

I think you should refine your terms here. There is no law of physics that says that synthetics don't live. Nor is there any law of physics that says that life must be carbon based, use or emit oxygen or any other such conditions. According to all of the most accepted scientific criteria for defining life, Reapers are indeed alive. They regulate their internal environment, which is an organized system that processes chemicals and/or energy in order to maintain that internal organization. They grow, adapt to their environment, respond to stimuli, and are capable of reproduction. That covers all the defining criteria for "life".

By the textbook definition, Reapers do "live". Nor are they completely synthetic, although "synthetic" and "alive" are not mutually exclusive states. Now I can accept a claim that Reapers could not have naturally "evolved", so that their origin as a species is dependent upon the action of another species to create them initially. And speculation about that process of creation is of course the main subject of this thread.

I guess my main point here is that you should not invoke laws of physics and other scientific points unless you are going to be specific enough to do so factually. When you go into speculation, run with it as you like. But when you invoke known science, stick to real facts please.

Point taken. My problem is mostly that, as a non-native speaker in English, I often tangled with the right terms. But again, point taken.

[Pro_Consul]

d1sciple wrote...

...but you could say that all evolution is built on another species interference couldn't you? without prey there'd be no predators and vice versa, nor all the specific physical and mental traits gained through evolution to help a species deal with the environment, threats, the need for energy/food etc. most evolution may be environment based but other, competing species are usually included in the general 'environment'.

Semantically, sure. But there is a big gulf between species influencing each others' evolution and one species crafting a whole new species by deliberate design. I believe the latter case is what Hallusinaati was specifically referring to. And its an important distinction to be sure.

Modifié par Pro_Consul, 23 septembre 2011 - 05:00 .

[Rifneno]

Pro_Consul wrote...

I think you should refine your terms here. There is no law of physics that says that synthetics don't live. Nor is there any law of physics that says that life must be carbon based, use or emit oxygen or any other such conditions. According to all of the most accepted scientific criteria for defining life, Reapers are indeed alive. They regulate their internal environment, which is an organized system that processes chemicals and/or energy in order to maintain that internal organization. They grow, adapt to their environment, respond to stimuli, and are capable of reproduction. That covers all the defining criteria for "life".

I believe what he meant, and I completely agree with if so, is simply that synthetics don't occur naturally. I'm firmly of the belief that most things we believe about how life can exist is foolishness. If life in Earth did indeed evolve from a single source, the "primordial ooze," then the countless species on this planet is essentially a sample size of one. You cannot draw any reliable conclusions from a sample size of one. However it's too big of a leap to say minerals and metals can spontaneously come to life without something to base it on. So yeah... somebody built them.

I'm also surprised anyone would give credence to Sovereign's (am I the only one the kind of wants to call him Nazara?) claim that they have no beginning and no end. This would essentially mean that they're gods. "The last boss is a god" is such an overused RPG cliche that I wouldn't imagine Bioware wants to fall back on it here. Perhaps more importantly, those "last boss is a god" gods are almost always just mortal beings who managed to obtain incredible powers. But at their core, still mortal. If what Sovereign said was true, the Reapers would be a tier higher than that. One that likely could not be defeated. It's far more likely that he was just talking trash in an attempt to demoralize the enemy.

I do hope we find out who created them and why, even if it doesn't really matter. Unanswered questions like that just suck. The theory I'm going with is that whatever race created them was fighting a brutal war. The first few Reapers were created as weapons of mass destruction. And they worked very well, almost single-handedly assuring victory for their masters. The losing side managed to hack them and remove their "don't murderize your masters" code as a way to take the other side down with them. Both sides destroyed, the cycle had begun.

Although I have to wonder if they truly are from another galaxy. I know, "sci-fi rarely involves other galaxies," but I ask you: why do they wait out in dark space? Vigil's explanation was that it was to hide while organic civilizations rise but I don't believe that. Remember where the heretic geth station was and why? "Between stars. Organics have no reason to look there." And even if they did have a reason, they wouldn't find them. The Milky Way is 7.85 trillion cubic light years. That's... pretty big. Stumbling onto the Reapers if they just stayed between stars in the middle of nowhere would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. If the haystack was the size of Jupiter. Furthermore, the Collector's Base. The Reapers had an area of the galaxy that was not just obscure but totally inaccessible to less advanced species. Why wouldn't they stay there during hibernation? The logical conclusion is that the Reapers are not just sleeping out in dark space where they could be become trapped or at least needlessly stuck for hundreds of years. So where were they, and why?

[Warplan]

I absolutely believe that the Reapers are a created species.
Their methods, motives and,  ultimately their patience points to a "Computer Sentry System" behavior.
They do not have enough "native bordom" to be a natural, evolved species
Even the Geth have more personality. Legion's N7 Shoulder armor = example

I believe that we will find out that the Reapers are simply agents of a higher/darker force.
They claim to be our "saviors via destruction". They assymilate and save the superior races

Something ELSE set it all up.  Reapers do not demonstrate enough imagination to create this system.
So something else wants "evolution" constrained according to familiar lines, contained.
The cycle keeps a galaxy restricted within its bounds; on "Auto-pilot" so as to not threaten the real masters.
The Reapers are the tripwire.
When they finally die/are defeated. This will raise the alarm to the next level of sentries.

That is when the Mass Effect MMO comes out.

Modifié par Warplan, 12 octobre 2011 - 10:38 .

[DeathScepter]

nice. And the power of the Necro made and compells the Reapers' action.

[Rifneno]

Warplan wrote...

I absolutely believe that the Reapers are a created species.
Their methods, motives and,  ultimately their patience points to a "Computer Sentry System" behavior.
They do not have enough "native bordom" to be a natural, evolved species
Even the Geth have more personality. Legion's N7 Shoulder armor = example

An excellent point. We've seen virtually no personality or emotion from the Reapers. They're intelligent, definitely. Sentient? By the literal definition, without question. But they could conceivably be someone other species's EDI. Actually, bad comparison, because even EDI has shown some significant emotion or personality.

On a semi-related note, Legion.

I believe that we will find out that the Reapers are simply agents of a higher/darker force.

Hmmm. I'm starting to think that's true, and I think I've found a solid candidate.

The Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy is the closest galaxy to Earth. Not Andromeda as was previously thought. This galaxy is much smaller than either the Milky Way or Andromeda, and more importantly, much closer. Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away. Hence why it's just too far away to be believably interacting with the Milky Way for most sci-fi. CMD is only 25,000 light years away. That's a hundredth of the distance. Now we're within the realm of believability, especially for the Reapers. This would also provide a reason for the genocide... scientists believe the CMD is going to be torn apart by the Milky Way's gravitational pull. If there was a superadvanced species there, they may want the Milky Way once their own home galaxy becomes unlivable. So they build an army of genocidal metal Cthuhlus and have them destroy any rising species here so there's no resistance when they do eventually come themselves.

Now, I said "Not Andromeda as was previously thought." That's because this galaxy is obscured behind an extremely thick cloud of gas, stars, and dust in our own Milky Way, and was first discovered in 2003. When you consider how long it takes for these games to be made, and how much longer the first one takes for obvious reasons... 2003 or 2004 is a reasonable guess on when the idea for ME was born. Circumstantial evidence to be sure, but I would not be at all surprised if this came about after one of the writers read the story about its discovery. Especially considering how scientifically accurate ME tends to be (at least in comparison to most fantasy and sci fi).

[BentOrgy]

Rifneno wrote...

Hmmm. I'm starting to think that's true, and I think I've found a solid candidate.

The Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy is the closest galaxy to Earth. Not Andromeda as was previously thought. This galaxy is much smaller than either the Milky Way or Andromeda, and more importantly, much closer. Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away. Hence why it's just too far away to be believably interacting with the Milky Way for most sci-fi. CMD is only 25,000 light years away. That's a hundredth of the distance. Now we're within the realm of believability, especially for the Reapers. This would also provide a reason for the genocide... scientists believe the CMD is going to be torn apart by the Milky Way's gravitational pull. If there was a superadvanced species there, they may want the Milky Way once their own home galaxy becomes unlivable. So they build an army of genocidal metal Cthuhlus and have them destroy any rising species here so there's no resistance when they do eventually come themselves.

Now, I said "Not Andromeda as was previously thought." That's because this galaxy is obscured behind an extremely thick cloud of gas, stars, and dust in our own Milky Way, and was first discovered in 2003. When you consider how long it takes for these games to be made, and how much longer the first one takes for obvious reasons... 2003 or 2004 is a reasonable guess on when the idea for ME was born. Circumstantial evidence to be sure, but I would not be at all surprised if this came about after one of the writers read the story about its discovery. Especially considering how scientifically accurate ME tends to be (at least in comparison to most fantasy and sci fi).

If Bioware is struggling for an origin story, I think they've found it now.

[WhiteKnyght]

Rifneno wrote...

Warplan wrote...

I absolutely believe that the Reapers are a created species.
Their methods, motives and,  ultimately their patience points to a "Computer Sentry System" behavior.
They do not have enough "native bordom" to be a natural, evolved species
Even the Geth have more personality. Legion's N7 Shoulder armor = example

An excellent point. We've seen virtually no personality or emotion from the Reapers. They're intelligent, definitely. Sentient? By the literal definition, without question. But they could conceivably be someone other species's EDI. Actually, bad comparison, because even EDI has shown some significant emotion or personality.

On a semi-related note, Legion.

I believe that we will find out that the Reapers are simply agents of a higher/darker force.

Hmmm. I'm starting to think that's true, and I think I've found a solid candidate.

The Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy is the closest galaxy to Earth. Not Andromeda as was previously thought. This galaxy is much smaller than either the Milky Way or Andromeda, and more importantly, much closer. Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away. Hence why it's just too far away to be believably interacting with the Milky Way for most sci-fi. CMD is only 25,000 light years away. That's a hundredth of the distance. Now we're within the realm of believability, especially for the Reapers. This would also provide a reason for the genocide... scientists believe the CMD is going to be torn apart by the Milky Way's gravitational pull. If there was a superadvanced species there, they may want the Milky Way once their own home galaxy becomes unlivable. So they build an army of genocidal metal Cthuhlus and have them destroy any rising species here so there's no resistance when they do eventually come themselves.

Now, I said "Not Andromeda as was previously thought." That's because this galaxy is obscured behind an extremely thick cloud of gas, stars, and dust in our own Milky Way, and was first discovered in 2003. When you consider how long it takes for these games to be made, and how much longer the first one takes for obvious reasons... 2003 or 2004 is a reasonable guess on when the idea for ME was born. Circumstantial evidence to be sure, but I would not be at all surprised if this came about after one of the writers read the story about its discovery. Especially considering how scientifically accurate ME tends to be (at least in comparison to most fantasy and sci fi).

Except that the Reapers are millions of years old. No known organic race has a lifespan like that.

And if that were the case, why not just move in after the first purge? Instead of doing it over and over every 50,000 years.

The Reapers come in and kill everything, then salvage everything and leave behind clues to make sure that future races develop in the same direction. It seems more like the Reapers are farming resources that they cant build themselves.

Given Mass Effect 2's final boss. It could be the Reaper equivalent of a reproductive season.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 13 octobre 2011 - 08:25 .

[d1sciple]

in all the Reaper theory threads quite a few people end up thinking the same thing in regards to them saving organics by absorbing them and that sounds a little too much like another well know sci fi antagonist for me swallow. so here's a reminder i posted in the other 'official' reaper theory thread:

Brave words. I've heard them before, from thousands of species across thousands of worlds, since long before you were created. But, now they are all *Reapers*.

Small words from a small being, trying to attack what it doesn't understand.

We are the *Reapers*. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

I am the beginning. The end. The one who is many. I am the *Reapers*.

[Lapis Lazuli]

Rifneno wrote...

Hmmm. I'm starting to think that's true, and I think I've found a solid candidate.

The Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy is the closest galaxy to Earth. Not Andromeda as was previously thought. This galaxy is much smaller than either the Milky Way or Andromeda, and more importantly, much closer. Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away. Hence why it's just too far away to be believably interacting with the Milky Way for most sci-fi. CMD is only 25,000 light years away. That's a hundredth of the distance. Now we're within the realm of believability, especially for the Reapers. This would also provide a reason for the genocide... scientists believe the CMD is going to be torn apart by the Milky Way's gravitational pull. If there was a superadvanced species there, they may want the Milky Way once their own home galaxy becomes unlivable. So they build an army of genocidal metal Cthuhlus and have them destroy any rising species here so there's no resistance when they do eventually come themselves.

Now, I said "Not Andromeda as was previously thought." That's because this galaxy is obscured behind an extremely thick cloud of gas, stars, and dust in our own Milky Way, and was first discovered in 2003. When you consider how long it takes for these games to be made, and how much longer the first one takes for obvious reasons... 2003 or 2004 is a reasonable guess on when the idea for ME was born. Circumstantial evidence to be sure, but I would not be at all surprised if this came about after one of the writers read the story about its discovery. Especially considering how scientifically accurate ME tends to be (at least in comparison to most fantasy and sci fi).

Here's a nitpick:
Andromeda wasn't previously thought to be the closest. The Large Megallanic Cloud (LMC) was previously thought to be the closest at 160,000 light years. The Small Megallanic Cloud (SMC) is 200,000 light years. They are both irregular satellite galaxies to the Milky Way.

[Rifneno]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Except that the Reapers are millions of years old. No known organic race has a lifespan like that.

And if that were the case, why not just move in after the first purge? Instead of doing it over and over every 50,000 years.

The Reapers come in and kill everything, then salvage everything and leave behind clues to make sure that future races develop in the same direction. It seems more like the Reapers are farming resources that they cant build themselves.

Given Mass Effect 2's final boss. It could be the Reaper equivalent of a reproductive season.

I don't know what the first line is in reference to. What does their master's lifespan have to do with anything? As for why not moving in right away, imagine we found out some massive natural disaster will destroy, let's say Japan, in 100 years. Do you think everyone would get up and leave as soon as possible? Doubtful. It's their home and it's still safe for a long time to come. On the other hand, it'd be stupid for their government not to make plans for relocation when the time does come to pack up and leave. Now true, 100 years is a tiny fraction of the time. But we're also a very young species. The dinosaurs ruled the Earth for hundreds of millions of years and they were just stupid animals. We also have a very short lifespan in comparison to many of ME's species. If asari live 1,000 years already, how long do you think their lifespan might be with another few hundred million years of medical and technological advancement?

I don't see farming resources or reproduction being their primary goals. They could achieve either of those means through easier methods. If they wanted resources, it'd be best to enslave a particularly productive species with indoctrination and have them continually farming. Very similar to what they did to the Protheans/Collectors actually. For reproduction, cloning is a cakewalk for them. If some random douchebag salarian can clone organs in poor people for the black market, then en masse cloning of whatever is deemed the best species would be a cinch for the Reapers.

Granted, I'm just theorizing, but them being involved somehow with the CMD galaxy makes far more sense than them not. See my post a couple up from that one about why it makes no sense for the Reapers to be hiding in dark space. Yet they certainly weren't in the Milky Way either. Sovereign spent 1,000 years trying to get things back on track yet it barely took any time for the Reapers fleet to get from near the Alpha Relay to the next closest one and invade Earth (and undoubtedly other planets). So where are they? The only options I can think of are that they're in another galaxy, or they're in another dimension. And I really doubt anyone wants to see the latter involved with this series.

[Lapis Lazuli]

^^^^
Wow, I can't fathom what the sky would look like at night on a planet in CMD that has line of sight to the Milky Way! It has been said that someone on a planet in the Large Megellanic Cloud could theoretically see the entire MIlky Way spiral rise and set with a width equal to 40 moons across the line of sight! Perhaps someone in CMD could see the MIlky Way rise and set at a width of hundreds of moon diameters!!!

Modifié par Lapis Lazuli, 15 octobre 2011 - 04:46 .