137 réponses à ce sujet

[rumination888]

WillieStyle wrote...

Are you sure its a x2 modifier and not a +100% modifier?

It was confirmed by a dev.

The dev said double. He didn't specifically say whether its x2 or +100%.

[Jaekahn]

See, this is where you guys have me outsmarted. I fail hardcore when it comes to numbers. I apologize if the guide is misleading due to not listing stats or anything.

[qq151069]

rumination888 wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

Are you sure its a x2 modifier and not a +100% modifier?

It was confirmed by a dev.

The dev said double. He didn't specifically say whether its x2 or +100%.

What's the difference between a x2 and +100% modifier?  Is one only operating on the weapon's base damage or is one operating on the total damage?  (Other posts that I've found didn't help illuminate the situation).

[rumination888]

qq151069 wrote...

What's the difference between a x2 and +100% modifier?  Is one only operating on the weapon's base damage or is one operating on the total damage?  (Other posts that I've found didn't help illuminate the situation).

Yes.

[Average Gatsby]

As I think others have pointed out, ammo powers for the sniper, from a pure damage perspective, are not very useful. I did a test of my run I have posted with a variety of ammo powers today, and like Besetment said, there was no difference in the number of sniper shots I had to take. I would point out though that I actually did more damage to mercs with Lvl 2 Disruptor Ammo (30%) than with Improved Shredder Ammo (80%). They still, with my 2/5 sniper upgrades and max damage gear, took two widow shots, but the health left over on the lvl 2 disruptor ammo was about 1/4th whereas the health left over from shredder ammo was about 1/3rd to 1/2.



I actually was trying to see if shredder ammo was really as bad as everyone understands it, and as far as having it for shepard, its truly terrible.



About the squad cryo vs squad incineration: I've had way to many instances of cryo's freezing benefit me as far as survivability goes. Rumination's video shows that they are essentially even, except that he gets shot less. For insanity, especially NG+, I prefer getting shot less over DPS, because not getting shot means time out of cover, and time out of cover means quicker widow shots.

[rumination888]

I get shot less using incendiary on organics and disrupter on synthetics. They both stun their targets instantly at red health, unlike cryo(except vs. Krogans). And normal enemies would go down in less time than the Krogan in my video, so the actual time they're frozen is even less. The extra damage on incendiary and disrupter is just icing on the cake.

Modifié par rumination888, 05 mars 2010 - 04:12 .

[Average Gatsby]

rumination888 wrote...

I get shot less using incendiary on organics and disrupter on synthetics. They both stun their targets instantly at red health, unlike cryo. And normal enemies would go down in less time than the Krogan in my video, so the actual time they're frozen is even less. The extra damage on incendiary and disrupter is just icing on the cake.

No argument about Squad disruptor on synthetics. Its amazing. Anytime I fight geth I have Zaeed.

For squad incendiary, you also have to consider that your going to have to take either Jacob or Grunt as a squadmate to get it. It comes down to whether you want shepard to provide that CC assistance or you want a squadmate to provide it. Shepard with squad cryo can take anyone without an ammo power whereas shepard without squad cryo, to get a similar effect, has to use Grunt or Jacob. Good squadmates but narrower options. I prefer to take high damage squadmates like thane, samara, zaeed, garrus, or miranda over shotgun users.

You've already said before that health damage doesn't matter for the infiltrator because everything is just overkill using the widow, which I agree with.

[rumination888]

Average Gatsby wrote...

No argument about Squad disruptor on synthetics. Its amazing. Anytime I fight geth I have Zaeed.

For squad incendiary, you also have to consider that your going to have to take either Jacob or Grunt as a squadmate to get it. It comes down to whether you want shepard to provide that CC assistance or you want a squadmate to provide it. Shepard with squad cryo can take anyone without an ammo power whereas shepard without squad cryo, to get a similar effect, has to use Grunt or Jacob. Good squadmates but narrower options. I prefer to take high damage squadmates like thane, samara, zaeed, garrus, or miranda over shotgun users.

You've already said before that health damage doesn't matter for the infiltrator because everything is just overkill using the widow, which I agree with.

Grunt IS a high damage dealer. One of the best. He carries an assault rifle and will tear through any enemy stupid enough to get close to him.

And, I hate to admit it, but despite how much I rag on him, Jacob has gotten a lot better ever since the Eviscerator was released.(totally unrelated to the topic, but i would LOVE a DLC where Jacob gets a biotic implant research to reduce his Pull/Barrier cooldown on par with Samara and Jack's cooldown... c'mon Bioware, I know you're reading this!)

If you don't want to use them, I can understand why you'd prefer cryo ammo, though. But if you're willing to bring one of them along, they will help clear missions easier and quicker than if you relied on cryo and used another squadmate. And if you're not playing NG+, using squad incendiary frees up points you can spend on other things. Logistics can play a pretty important role in the effectiveness of one of Shepard's skill.

Modifié par rumination888, 05 mars 2010 - 04:44 .

[mosor]

Cyro ammo destroys husks. They never unfreeze....they just break. Just incinerate the armor, spray cryo with your SMG  and win.

Sometimes I take heavy cryo and put it on my pistol (not the cannon) and take someone with squad inferno ammo which I put on my rifle and SMG. One rifle snipe will strip a krogan of his armor. 1-3 shots with your pistol will freeze iit, and just switch to your SMG with inferno rounds to finish it.

Modifié par mosor, 05 mars 2010 - 04:58 .

[mosor]

Personally I like to retrain for certain missions. Nothing bugs me more than having a skill I'm not using just because it may be useful on a future mission. I also string together as many similar missions as possible so I retrain less.

[Average Gatsby]

rumination888 wrote...

Average Gatsby wrote...

No argument about Squad disruptor on synthetics. Its amazing. Anytime I fight geth I have Zaeed.

For squad incendiary, you also have to consider that your going to have to take either Jacob or Grunt as a squadmate to get it. It comes down to whether you want shepard to provide that CC assistance or you want a squadmate to provide it. Shepard with squad cryo can take anyone without an ammo power whereas shepard without squad cryo, to get a similar effect, has to use Grunt or Jacob. Good squadmates but narrower options. I prefer to take high damage squadmates like thane, samara, zaeed, garrus, or miranda over shotgun users.

You've already said before that health damage doesn't matter for the infiltrator because everything is just overkill using the widow, which I agree with.

Grunt IS a high damage dealer. One of the best. He carries an assault rifle and will tear through any enemy stupid enough to get close to him.

And, I hate to admit it, but despite how much I rag on him, Jacob has gotten a lot better ever since the Eviscerator was released.(totally unrelated to the topic, but i would LOVE a DLC where Jacob gets a biotic implant research to reduce his Pull/Barrier cooldown on par with Samara and Jack's cooldown... c'mon Bioware, I know you're reading this!)

If you don't want to use them, I can understand why you'd prefer cryo ammo, though. But if you're willing to bring one of them along, they will help clear missions easier and quicker than if you relied on cryo and used another squadmate. And if you're not playing NG+, using squad incendiary frees up points you can spend on other things. Logistics can play a pretty important role in the effectiveness of one of Shepard's skill.

I think they should add that for Jacob too. His passive is just so... lackluster in comparison, and that 18 second barrier cooldown is brutal when you want him to be ready to pull and he keeps throwing up barriers. And The evi is great. I sort of wax and wane with Grunt. Sometimes he really comes through on the tanking and other times his pathing is buggy so I prefer to use a squadmate with damage abilities. So grunt was awesome when I took him on horizon, but when I took him on the collector ship he kept acting all timid and unkrogan.

I should say that the degree to which i prefer cryo is incredibly small. You can see how much I like squad incendiary ammo as I have it in almost every one of my engineer videos. Cryo wins in my mind just by a hair, and early game I definitely take the squad incendiary ammo over putting points in cryo. NG+ and Endgame is when I like cryo rounds.

All this to say, don't take AP, Warp, or Shredder Ammo as an infiltrator.

[mosor]

rumination888 wrote...


All this to say, don't take AP, Warp, or Shredder Ammo as an infiltrator.

Whats wrong with heavy warp ammo on collector missions? With that ammo I one shot kill drones even without a cloak.  In tthose missions I prefer:

4  Assasins Cloak
4  Assasin Passive
4  Inciniration blast
4 Squad Cyro for my team and SMG
4 Heavy warp for my rifle

All the other skills you can take are pretty much useless for collector missions.

For Geth I'll substitute Squad disruptor for heavy Warp take AI hacking instead of  Cryo.

For missions like Grunt Loyalty mission, squad cryo is more useful to my playstyle than squad inferno, so I'd take tungsten  for my rifle.

Modifié par mosor, 05 mars 2010 - 05:36 .

[Average Gatsby]

mosor wrote...

rumination888 wrote...


All this to say, don't take AP, Warp, or Shredder Ammo as an infiltrator.

Whats wrong with heavy warp ammo on collector missions? With that ammo I one shot kill drones even without a cloak.  In tthose missions I prefer:

5 Assasins Cloak
5 Assasin Passive
5 Squad Cyro for my team and SMG
5 Heavy warp for my rifle

All the other skills you can take are pretty much useless for that mission.

With the widow, you can one shot any low enemy, like drones, with just the 3/5 sniper upgrades, and maybe less depending on the level. Plus at that point you get the headshot damage increase, so you may be able to 1shot guardians and assassins as well. Warp ammo is overkill on collectors. Although I do believe rumination had a video that showed warp ammo killing harbinger in one less bullet, so if you really need that 1 bullet than maybe its a good choice.

[rumination888]

Average Gatsby wrote...

I think they should add that for Jacob too. His passive is just so... lackluster in comparison, and that 18 second barrier cooldown is brutal when you want him to be ready to pull and he keeps throwing up barriers. And The evi is great. I sort of wax and wane with Grunt. Sometimes he really comes through on the tanking and other times his pathing is buggy so I prefer to use a squadmate with damage abilities. So grunt was awesome when I took him on horizon, but when I took him on the collector ship he kept acting all timid and unkrogan.

I should say that the degree to which i prefer cryo is incredibly small. You can see how much I like squad incendiary ammo as I have it in almost every one of my engineer videos. Cryo wins in my mind just by a hair, and early game I definitely take the squad incendiary ammo over putting points in cryo. NG+ and Endgame is when I like cryo rounds.

All this to say, don't take AP, Warp, or Shredder Ammo as an infiltrator.

Haha, agreed.

mosor wrote...

Whats wrong with heavy warp ammo on
collector missions? With that ammo I one shot kill drones even without
a cloak.  In tthose missions I prefer:

You will one shot drones even without Warp Ammo. Well, with a Widow anyways.

[Jaekahn]

Average Gatsby wrote...

mosor wrote...

rumination888 wrote...


All this to say, don't take AP, Warp, or Shredder Ammo as an infiltrator.

Whats wrong with heavy warp ammo on collector missions? With that ammo I one shot kill drones even without a cloak.  In tthose missions I prefer:

5 Assasins Cloak
5 Assasin Passive
5 Squad Cyro for my team and SMG
5 Heavy warp for my rifle

All the other skills you can take are pretty much useless for that mission.

With the widow, you can one shot any low enemy, like drones, with just the 3/5 sniper upgrades, and maybe less depending on the level. Plus at that point you get the headshot damage increase, so you may be able to 1shot guardians and assassins as well. Warp ammo is overkill on collectors. Although I do believe rumination had a video that showed warp ammo killing harbinger in one less bullet, so if you really need that 1 bullet than maybe its a good choice.

I just finished the Collector Ship on my Infiltrator's third run and I managed to kill drones with a 2/5 upgraded weapon with my Infiltrator. I wanted to see if I could do it without using any bonus powers, but I brought Jack with me for squad warp ammo. Between her and Thane, I was able to kill two drones at once when combining their dual dps with my one shot kill. Took maybe... 3 tries on the platform before I finally nailed it. Compare that to my first insanity attempt on my Engineer, which was like 50 tries, that's pretty damn good, haha.

[mosor]

Average Gatsby wrote...

mosor wrote...

rumination888 wrote...


All this to say, don't take AP, Warp, or Shredder Ammo as an infiltrator.

Whats wrong with heavy warp ammo on collector missions? With that ammo I one shot kill drones even without a cloak.  In tthose missions I prefer:

5 Assasins Cloak
5 Assasin Passive
5 Squad Cyro for my team and SMG
5 Heavy warp for my rifle

All the other skills you can take are pretty much useless for that mission.

With the widow, you can one shot any low enemy, like drones, with just the 3/5 sniper upgrades, and maybe less depending on the level. Plus at that point you get the headshot damage increase, so you may be able to 1shot guardians and assassins as well. Warp ammo is overkill on collectors. Although I do believe rumination had a video that showed warp ammo killing harbinger in one less bullet, so if you really need that 1 bullet than maybe its a good choice.

Bullets are hard to come by in some missions, so any bullet saved is fine by me. I guess my point was referring more to how incindary ammo for your squad is superior for collector missions than cryo. Your squad doesn't run out of ammo, and I'd rather have them freeze targets  than bring them to low health and not finish the job. Cryo is also superior against husks, especially when combined with incinirate.

[rumination888]

mosor wrote...

Bullets are hard to come by in some missions, so any bullet saved is fine by me. I guess my point was referring more to how incindary ammo for your squad is superior for collector missions than cryo. Your squad doesn't run out of ammo, and I'd rather have them freeze targets  than bring them to low health and not finish the job. Cryo is also superior against husks, especially when combined with incinirate.

A target that is actually frozen will fall to the floor where, for the majority of the time, your squadmates are unable to fire.

A target that is on fire and panicing will stay in place and give your squadmates free target practice.

[mosor]

rumination888 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Bullets are hard to come by in some missions, so any bullet saved is fine by me. I guess my point was referring more to how incindary ammo for your squad is superior for collector missions than cryo. Your squad doesn't run out of ammo, and I'd rather have them freeze targets  than bring them to low health and not finish the job. Cryo is also superior against husks, especially when combined with incinirate.

A target that is actually frozen will fall to the floor where, for the majority of the time, your squadmates are unable to fire.

A target that is on fire and panicing will stay in place and give your squadmates free target practice.

I mentioned it above, but a frozen husk shatters. It doesn't unfreeze. Now others may have different experiences, but the husk swarms are the part that usually gives me the most trouble. Cryo is the difference of not dying at all or dying a lot. If someone else has a different strategy, i'd like to learn. The only thing that would slow me down with Harbringer and the collectors are bullets. It's good to know you'll kill even if you don't make that head shot if you have thr proper ammo and the widow.

Modifié par mosor, 05 mars 2010 - 05:50 .

[Deflagratio]

Best infiltrator guide inc. Works on all difficulties

1.Get Widow
2.Win game.



All you need to know. If you really n eed more than that to beat the game on infiltrator on any difficulty, you fail harder than two elbows up the anus.

[rumination888]

mosor wrote...

I mentioned it above, but a frozen husk shatters. It doesn't unfreeze.
Now others may have different experiences, but the husk swarms are the
part that usually gives me the most trouble. Cryo is the difference of
not dying at all or dying a lot. If someone else has a different
strategy, i'd like to learn. The only thing that would slow me down
with Harbringer and the collectors are bullets. It's good to know
you'll kill even if you don't make that head shot if you have thr
proper ammo and the widow.

I guess I don't really see a problem with husks, regardless of class.
They're psychologically difficult, rather than actually difficult.

Do you have a habit of holding down the aim button when dealing with husks? Because Shepard moves faster than a husk when you don't aim. And since husks are at such a close range, aiming is pointless.

I wonder how many actual seconds it would take for Shepard to down a husk with incendiary ammo compared to cryo ammo. Freezing may instantly kill them, but the act of freezing isn't instant.

[qq151069]

mosor wrote...

I mentioned it above, but a frozen husk shatters. It doesn't unfreeze. Now others may have different experiences, but the husk swarms are the part that usually gives me the most trouble. Cryo is the difference of not dying at all or dying a lot. If someone else has a different strategy, i'd like to learn. The only thing that would slow me down with Harbringer and the collectors are bullets. It's good to know you'll kill even if you don't make that head shot if you have thr proper ammo and the widow.

You can always use the Avalanche heavy weapon and spend the extra points for cryo ammo on a different power.  As far as I can remember, husks only appear on collector missions and you can find a good amount of heavy weapon ammo on these missions. 

If you go this route, then you can also save bullets on the harder "boss" targets.  Given that those fights are usually against a single target, the infiltrator should be in good shape to attack. 

[mosor]

rumination888 wrote...

mosor wrote...

I mentioned it above, but a frozen husk shatters. It doesn't unfreeze.
Now others may have different experiences, but the husk swarms are the
part that usually gives me the most trouble. Cryo is the difference of
not dying at all or dying a lot. If someone else has a different
strategy, i'd like to learn. The only thing that would slow me down
with Harbringer and the collectors are bullets. It's good to know
you'll kill even if you don't make that head shot if you have thr
proper ammo and the widow.

I guess I don't really see a problem with husks, regardless of class.
They're psychologically difficult, rather than actually difficult.

Do you have a habit of holding down the aim button when dealing with husks? Because Shepard moves faster than a husk when you don't aim. And since husks are at such a close range, aiming is pointless.

I wonder how many actual seconds it would take for Shepard to down a husk with incendiary ammo compared to cryo ammo. Freezing may instantly kill them, but the act of freezing isn't instant.

Well inciniration blast will strip the armor off a few enemies and just spray your SMG at the group. Once they start to freeze you can ignore it and focus on another, while with incindiary ammo you cant really ignore that husk until it's totally out of health.Furthermore your squad is also shooting their cryo so huks drop like flies when you take out the armor out of groups.

[mosor]

qq151069 wrote...

mosor wrote...

I mentioned it above, but a frozen husk shatters. It doesn't unfreeze. Now others may have different experiences, but the husk swarms are the part that usually gives me the most trouble. Cryo is the difference of not dying at all or dying a lot. If someone else has a different strategy, i'd like to learn. The only thing that would slow me down with Harbringer and the collectors are bullets. It's good to know you'll kill even if you don't make that head shot if you have thr proper ammo and the widow.

You can always use the Avalanche heavy weapon and spend the extra points for cryo ammo on a different power.  As far as I can remember, husks only appear on collector missions and you can find a good amount of heavy weapon ammo on these missions. 

If you go this route, then you can also save bullets on the harder "boss" targets.  Given that those fights are usually against a single target, the infiltrator should be in good shape to attack. 

I like to retrain specifically for missions after horizon. What other power would be useful for collector missions? The shield boosts? The downtimes are a pain. I'd rather take cryo for those missions and carry on a better heavy weapon for the boses.

Thing is I hate using the squad version of powers unless I'm in control of it. They have a habit of turning their ammo on when I don't want them to even when I turn off auto power usage.  I'd rather deal with the occasional aggrivation of a frozen enemy falling completely behind cover than that. Hell even a frozen enemy will stand still for a couple seconds before it falls, giving you plenty of time to shoot.

[rumination888]

mosor wrote...

Well inciniration blast will strip the armor off a few enemies and just spray your SMG at the group. Once they start to freeze you can ignore it and focus on another, while with incindiary ammo you cant really ignore that husk until it's totally out of health.Furthermore your squad is also shooting their cryo so huks drop like flies when you take out the armor out of groups.

Have you tried doing that in reverse? Stripping off their armor, and then hit them with an aoe incinerate?
Husks have little armor and a lot of health, BUT they pretty much die in 1 hit from any sort of power usage.

[mosor]

rumination888 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Well inciniration blast will strip the armor off a few enemies and just spray your SMG at the group. Once they start to freeze you can ignore it and focus on another, while with incindiary ammo you cant really ignore that husk until it's totally out of health.Furthermore your squad is also shooting their cryo so huks drop like flies when you take out the armor out of groups.

Have you tried doing that in reverse? Stripping off their armor, and then hit them with an aoe incinerate?
Husks have little armor and a lot of health, BUT they pretty much die in 1 hit from any sort of power usage.

Yeah I have. I just find it more  effecient to lob a blast, spray cryo, move back a bit a couple seconds and blast again the ones I didn't catch with cryo or save the power for a cloak if they somehow corner me.. Besides if I was going to do it the other way, I might as well put heavy warp on my SMG. It does 15% more damage and it's not like husks care about being burned.

It's just my opinion, but I believe the infiltrator with the bonus power has all ammo options to deal with any enemy quickly and effeciently without having to resort to the ammo of a squadmate. Squadmate ammo are for Adepts/Engineers/Sentinels who don't have any special ammo of their own. As I said above, I do retrain for missions after horizon. The total amout of element zero you need is 29,500, and you start with 50 or 60K, thats 6 or 7 retrains without mining a single planet or picking up a single crate. Makes no sense taking Zaeed for Geth missions, when I can give myself squad disruptor and take a stronger tank like grunt or have two overload specialists like Garrus and Miranda. Or why bother giving Grunt squad inferno, when I could max his passive, concussive shot and fortification? Not that concussive shot is particularly great but its still better than a squad version of  incidiary when you have other versions of ammo that do the job just as well or better,