60 réponses à ce sujet

[Nonvita]

Monica21 wrote...

Maybe a little overboard on the editing, but all right. ;-) Yeah, I do still sense a bit of resentment. Hehe...

LOL, I don't hold any resentment, I've just become much more willing to push him around, throw him on Morrigan to lose his virginity, and set up completely loveless political marriages with him... Er, that's not resentment, right?

[ejoslin]

Nonvita wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Maybe a little overboard on the editing, but all right. ;-) Yeah, I do still sense a bit of resentment. Hehe...

LOL, I don't hold any resentment, I've just become much more willing to push him around, throw him on Morrigan to lose his virginity, and set up completely loveless political marriages with him... Er, that's not resentment, right?

Well, *I* don't see it that way!  That's not resentment.  It's doing what's best for, um, Ferelden!

[Sabriana]

Oh I don't know. My poor mage was publicly dumped by Alistair, but it all worked out very well in the end for her. Really. I guess that's why we (my PC and I) are so forgiving.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Oh I don't know. My poor mage was publicly dumped by Alistair, but it all worked out very well in the end for her. Really. I guess that's why we (my PC and I) are so forgiving.

That's a good point.  I believe you had the same ending as my city elf.  So perhaps, hmmm.  How could I be nicer to Ali?  I romance him unless playing a human noblewoman (she can't hurt him by not loving him back when married to him), break up with him at points where he's relieved, leave it up to him whether he does the ritual . . . 

*sigh* Poor guy.  Usually he's a tragic hero.  I love him and his story very much, actually. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 mars 2010 - 03:25 .

[e-ver]

ejoslin wrote...

Allerleihrau wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

*snip*

... let's see... the rose discussion is a difficult one to do without turning the romance on. I haven't been able to accept the rose without doing so, even if my PC tells him she doesn't feel the same way, it seems to be on anyway.

Does he give you the rose, even if you've not started the romance previously??

Of course not.  The rose signifies him switching to "care." You're in a romance if you get that rose.

I thought so too, thanks for confirming it.
I have a hard time getting along with him as it is (my character despises Duncan, for conscripting her and after the Connor thing, where Alistair himself said, that it would be best to kill him and afterwards threw a hissy fit in camp, at which point I just couldn't bring myself to use the dialogue option which would have minimized the approval drop... I'm sure you get the picture - it's a good thing Alistair doesn't have a backbone, or he'd leave the group... sorry to the Alistair fans, I couldn't resist ), I don't need any more approval drops for breaking up a romance I wasn't even aware of having started.

[SurelyForth]

Allerleihrau wrote...

I thought so too, thanks for confirming it.
I have a hard time getting along with him as it is (my character despises Duncan, for conscripting her and after the Connor thing, where Alistair himself said, that it would be best to kill him and afterwards threw a hissy fit in camp, at which point I just couldn't bring myself to use the dialogue option which would have minimized the approval drop... I'm sure you get the picture - it's a good thing Alistair doesn't have a backbone, or he'd leave the group... sorry to the Alistair fans, I couldn't resist ), I don't need any more approval drops for breaking up a romance I wasn't even aware of having started.

Except he does have a backbone and he'll walk right up to you and tell you that he thinks you're a terrible person. He has to stay with you because he can't end the Blight on his own (that and game mechanics).

[Jaulen]

Alistair is a ninja-lover too. I had him at ~90 Friendly and then after Landsmeet, BAM! My CE gets the breakup speech and she was 100% in a romance with Zevran.....Alistair's response to her "I didn't relieze there was an us", "Don't kid yourself, we both know where this was headed..." o.O And then he starts talking about kids, marriage and duty....and I picked every response I thought meant "Um, WHAT?? Are you delusional?" Went to the gates thinking everything was peachy, (threw a virginal Alistair to Morrigan that game), killed the Archdemon, and then at the dias he was all like "I can't wait to go upstairs with you later." (I tried all the dialogue options there to see if I could get a 'non-romance' one...."What about Anora?" "I have my conquering Hero, let her find her own" *psst Alistair, we tossed Anora in the tower, you're not marrying her*)
I wish there was an option to shake him and scream, "Dude, I don't know WHERE you got the idea we were in a romance, but I'm taking off with Zevran! after this is all over! Here's some lotion!"
Thankfully the epilogue didn't glitch though. Hardened Alistair was king....

EDIT: I hear Alistair can glitch at the end into the romance break-up even if you are playng a male without the free love mod.

Modifié par Jaulen, 04 mars 2010 - 03:45 .

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...

Allerleihrau wrote...

I thought so too, thanks for confirming it.
I have a hard time getting along with him as it is (my character despises Duncan, for conscripting her and after the Connor thing, where Alistair himself said, that it would be best to kill him and afterwards threw a hissy fit in camp, at which point I just couldn't bring myself to use the dialogue option which would have minimized the approval drop... I'm sure you get the picture - it's a good thing Alistair doesn't have a backbone, or he'd leave the group... sorry to the Alistair fans, I couldn't resist ), I don't need any more approval drops for breaking up a romance I wasn't even aware of having started.

Except he does have a backbone and he'll walk right up to you and tell you that he thinks you're a terrible person. He has to stay with you because he can't end the Blight on his own (that and game mechanics).

The absolute meanest line you can say to Alistair is during his hate speech, IF you hit 100 hostile after he's declared king.  I still cringe at it in fact.  

Alistair: I guess I'll have to be satisfied with you actually helping to stop the Blight, wont I? If that's still your intention. I can't do it on my own.
Warden: So says the king of Ferelden.  Sad, really.
Allistair: Let's just go. I don't want to talk to you any more.

The thing that made me REALLY happy was Alistair would not marry my human noble female at -26 hostile (heh, one ham bone away from a royal wedding, though).  At least hardened Alistair will not!  My guess is unhardened won't either.

He does have a bit more of a backbone than he's given credit for.  

[e-ver]

SurelyForth wrote...
Except he does have a backbone and he'll walk right up to you and tell you that he thinks you're a terrible person. He has to stay with you because he can't end the Blight on his own (that and game mechanics).

Yes, I know, that's why I apologized in advance.

Alistair suffers from the fact that he is a Warden as well, the senior Warden even, but he's only a NPC. In order for the game to work, he can't be the alpha dog, that role is already taken by the PC.

Although I can't deny that he comes across as one of the more immature and insecure followers (at least to me), probably due to his childhood where he was told over and over again that he shouldn't get any funny ideas about his station in life and the whole birthright thing. Not much opportunity to develop self-confidence, I think.

Just to make it clear, I don't dislike Alistair. It's just that his particular weaknesses don't work well with most of my characters, whereas Morrigan's, Sten's, Leliana's and Zevran's weaknesses work out with my characters.

ejoslin wrote...

... (heh, one ham bone away from a royal
wedding, though)...

That's a very interesting (and hilarious!) way of putting it!

As for the lines in his hate speech, that's pretty cruel, I agree. I saw that in the toolset, but I guess hearing it is even worse. My current character won't see it though, because she won't make Alistair king... see, I do give him a treat once in a while.

Modifié par Allerleihrau, 04 mars 2010 - 04:07 .

[7th_Phoenix]

Simplest way I can think of is to just accept him as a friend... at least this is what my sister's trying. Tell him you're his friend and what not basically. I haven't done this myself. Whenever I romanced Lilianna or Zevran, I always end up breaking Alistair's heart -- poor Alistair. So yeah... from the get go... just choose options that state friendship -- it's working for my sister so far. Maybe you'll lose approval, I don't know, but there's nothing a gift won't recover.

[goofygoff]

Nonvita wrote...

Now, if you really want to avoid an Alistair relationship altogether, you should really try a hate run. He's almost sexier when he's angry. XD

Agreed.  I'm much more a fan of Alistair as a buddy than an LI, but I do think he's downright hot when he yells at you post-Landsmeet back at Eamon's estate, after you spare Loghain. 

Yes, I realize I may have issues.  >.>

Quill74Pen wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Easiest way to break up with him - have Anora execute him.

I watched a YouTube video of this scene and, frankly, there's no way in hell I could do that to a fellow Grey Warden, let alone a potential lover, lover or plain old friend.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it's...kinder to have him executed than to let him wander off and become a drunk.  Especially if he's unhardened.  His dialogue before leaving is more heartbreaking, too.  IIRC, when I let Anora execute him, he called me a pit viper or something.  lol

Modifié par goofygoff, 04 mars 2010 - 04:50 .

[7th_Phoenix]

Hating and going against Alistair does make him hotter -- I have one playthrough with a human noble female romancing Zevran and Alistair completely hates her. He's hardened as well as being fostered his opposition toward her. Sometimes I like to reload a save just hear the aggression he vents toward my character. So you're not the only with issues, goofygoff.

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Of course not.  The rose signifies him switching to "care." You're in a romance if you get that rose.

Ah, this just signifies that I don't think I've had a single female PC who didn't turn his romance on somehow.  Maybe my city elf who just never talked to him.  I feel your pain, OP.  Basically I've accepted that all my female characters are going to be in a love triangle of one configuration or another.  The good thing is that you can end up good friends with both Alistair and Zevran (I assume Leliana, too) even after a gentle break-up.

[7th_Phoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Of course not.  The rose signifies him switching to "care." You're in a romance if you get that rose.

Ah, this just signifies that I don't think I've had a single female PC who didn't turn his romance on somehow.  Maybe my city elf who just never talked to him.  I feel your pain, OP.  Basically I've accepted that all my female characters are going to be in a love triangle of one configuration or another.  The good thing is that you can end up good friends with both Alistair and Zevran (I assume Leliana, too) even after a gentle break-up.

This is how 99% of my female playthroughs always end up -- aside from that one. Grrr... you, Alistair and your lovely token of affection! <_<<3:kissing:

[ejoslin]

7th_Phoenix wrote...

Hating and going against Alistair does make him hotter -- I have one playthrough with a human noble female romancing Zevran and Alistair completely hates her. He's hardened as well as being fostered his opposition toward her. Sometimes I like to reload a save just hear the aggression he vents toward my character. So you're not the only with issues, goofygoff.

I bow to you.  I think I know how I COULD get him to hate my character after hardening him, but it would be difficult.  *sigh* Now I have another Alistair hate playthrough to try -- I thought I was done with those   But I've never hardened him in a hate game.  My guess is you raised his approval with gifts, went to Redcliff, heard about Goldanna, did the after talk, etc etc.  Then turned on the romance, laughed at him over the rose, taking him down to neutral, and then crushed him in conversations and such.

There would be enough Alistair gifts to do this as well.  But wow, it would be rough.  Actually, this may be a play through I won't do!

[goofygoff]

Addai67 wrote...

The good thing is that you can end up good friends with both Alistair and Zevran (I assume Leliana, too) even after a gentle break-up.

When I dumped Leliana for Alistair, I took a small approval hit.  The very next time I talked to her, I got the conversation about Alistair's performance.  Guess she didn't take the break-up too hard. 

Modifié par goofygoff, 04 mars 2010 - 05:03 .

[e-ver]

7th_Phoenix wrote...

Hating and going against Alistair does make him hotter -- I have one playthrough with a human noble female romancing Zevran and Alistair completely hates her. He's hardened as well as being fostered his opposition toward her. Sometimes I like to reload a save just hear the aggression he vents toward my character. So you're not the only with issues, goofygoff.

Can you harden an Alistair who hates you? I always thought his Goldanna dialogue would only show up if his aproval was high enough. I'd love to be wrong in this case!


[edit]
Ah, now I saw ejoslin's posting (I really type to slowly, that wasn't there before), so it isn't possible. Alas!

Modifié par Allerleihrau, 04 mars 2010 - 05:04 .

[amethyst_rose2009]

Allerleihrau wrote...

Can you harden an Alistair who hates you? I always thought his Goldanna dialogue would only show up if his aproval was high enough. I'd love to be wrong in this case!

I think your approval has to be fairly high with Alistair to get the Goldanna quest.

Modifié par amethyst_rose2009, 04 mars 2010 - 05:04 .

[e-ver]

amethyst_rose2009 wrote...

I think your approval has to be fairly high with Alistair to get the Goldanna quest.

Cross-posting de luxe, while you wrote this, I edited my posting.
Thank you though for confirming it.

[ejoslin]

I thought I did a post outlining how it could be done, and I'm sure it will show up at some totally inappropriate place, but I think this is how you could do it:

Raise his approval with gifts only. Go to redcliff, he'll tell you about goldanna. Visit her. Have the after talk (I THINK you can do this with gifts alone). Turn the romance on. First thing he'll do is give you the rose. Tell him, "So you give me a flower? Brilliant plan." That will take you down to 0, neutral. Then start having the conversations and be a complete jerk. Finish redcliff by sacrificing Isolde and taking horrible conversation choices.

For some extra hate points if needed, leave Cailin's body up for the darkspawn at RtO.  Only problem I see, actually, is, ugh, Zevran.  Taking him is an easy 10 points hate.  However, since you'll have a lot of conversations, you should be fine.

That SHOULD give you a hardened Alistair at 100 hostile. If you're only close, then at the landsmeet, make him king, refuse to help him afterwards, etc.

edit: And NOW my other post is visible to me.  Gah. well, here's a deliberate double posting with different words!  *sigh* more coffee needed . . .

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 mars 2010 - 05:16 .

[7th_Phoenix]

Allerleihrau wrote...

7th_Phoenix wrote...

Hating and going against Alistair does make him hotter -- I have one playthrough with a human noble female romancing Zevran and Alistair completely hates her. He's hardened as well as being fostered his opposition toward her. Sometimes I like to reload a save just hear the aggression he vents toward my character. So you're not the only with issues, goofygoff.

Can you harden an Alistair who hates you? I always thought his Goldanna dialogue would only show up if his aproval was high enough. I'd love to be wrong in this case!


[edit]
Ah, now I saw ejoslin's posting (I really type to slowly, that wasn't there before), so it isn't possible. Alas!

I built up his approval first to unlock his personal quest for the sole purpose of hardening him... then I went evil.

[Noir201]

If i remember right, i got Alistair family quest very early (25+ stage) not long after doing redcliff attack quest, also the gift item in the arl study room helps a great deal, might help if you want to get the family quest done fast, harden him, then make him hate you.

[e-ver]

Thanks for explaining it, ejoslin.



I wonder though, could it be even possible to do this without turning the romance on? As far as I remember, he'll give you the Goldanna talk while you're still at Castle Redcliffe. If you travel from there directly to Denerim without visting your camp, the first converstion when getting back to camp should be about how the PC handled the Connor situation. In this scenario it would be advisable to kill Connor (in order to avoid his -10 approval drop you get when performing the blood magic ritual, because you still have to talk about Goldanna) and you can loose massive approval in this conversation, by telling him that you probably shouldn't revive the Arl and that he should shut up.

[SurelyForth]

ejoslin wrote...

I thought I did a post outlining how it could be done, and I'm sure it will show up at some totally inappropriate place, but I think this is how you could do it:

Raise his approval with gifts only. Go to redcliff, he'll tell you about goldanna. Visit her. Have the after talk (I THINK you can do this with gifts alone). Turn the romance on. First thing he'll do is give you the rose. Tell him, "So you give me a flower? Brilliant plan." That will take you down to 0, neutral. Then start having the conversations and be a complete jerk. Finish redcliff by sacrificing Isolde and taking horrible conversation choices.

For some extra hate points if needed, leave Cailin's body up for the darkspawn at RtO.  Only problem I see, actually, is, ugh, Zevran.  Taking him is an easy 10 points hate.  However, since you'll have a lot of conversations, you should be fine.

That SHOULD give you a hardened Alistair at 100 hostile. If you're only close, then at the landsmeet, make him king, refuse to help him afterwards, etc.

Well, I have a new game goal.

I adore Alistair but I fangirl him the most when he's angry at or hating my Warden. It's like a sickness. There should be a law against any human being sounding so hot when they're furious; it's very confusing.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 04 mars 2010 - 05:20 .

[ejoslin]

Allerleihrau wrote...

Thanks for explaining it, ejoslin.

I wonder though, could it be even possible to do this without turning the romance on? As far as I remember, he'll give you the Goldanna talk while you're still at Castle Redcliffe. If you travel from there directly to Denerim without visting your camp, the first converstion when getting back to camp should be about how the PC handled the Connor situation. In this scenario it would be advisable to kill Connor (in order to avoid his -10 approval drop you get when performing the blood magic ritual, because you still have to talk about Goldanna) and you can loose massive approval in this conversation, by telling him that you probably shouldn't revive the Arl and that he should shut up.

I've lost -51 points tops on that -- you may be able to lose more, but it would be rough.  The problem is the [edit] Goldanna [end edit] after talk triggers at +71.  That's a LOT of good happy to destroy, and the easiest way is to turn on the romance and crush him like an evil sadist.  But it will get him down to 0 in one conversation.

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 mars 2010 - 05:27 .