41 réponses à ce sujet

[zaim298]

Ok, after seeing the battle at Ostagar in Dragon Age:Origins, many people argued over the tactical sense possessed by those in the Dragon Age world. It takes no geniuses to see that so many things are wrong with the battle of Ostagar. I'm not only judging this from the cinematics of the Ostagar cutscenes (this can be forgiven since it is in essence just a game) but also with the informations provided to us in game. In fact, this has been discuss before in a thread Ferelden-Land of Idiots by Andorfiend.

But this topic is not about discussing the battle of Ostagar. After reading so many posts by others regarding military tactics, strategies, conflicts etc I just have to say that a lot of people know what they're talking about and have vast knowledge in history of warfare. So here, I just want to know about people opinions and suggestions regarding who is the greatest military leaders:generals:tacticians of all time?

So first, we have Military Leaders, people who are first in chain of command (the ruler if you will or the one behind the grandscale operations in military campaigns) but not necessarily a direct General on the field, people like Alexander the Great, Napoleon Bonaparte, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun etc. Second we have Military Generals, people who command the field armies, people like Subotai of Genghis Khan, Khalid ibn Al-Walid, Hannibal Barca etc. And third we have the Military Tacticians, people who formulate the strategies and tactics in battle, people like Napoleon Bonaparte, Hannibal Barca, George Patton, Zhuge Liang etc.

It doesn't have to be exclusive, like you can place Hannibal both as a general and tactician or Alexander both as leader and general. Napoleon Bonaparte is a good example of an all-rounder. So here is the format for posting your pick:

Military Leader: Name - state reasons for your choice

Military General: Name - state reasons for your choice

Military Tactician: Name - state reasons for your choice

after naming your choices, you can quote any choices of previous posters and discuss their choices and reasons if you want to.

Note: you don't have to post your pick if you just wanted to join in with the discussion :)i'm just gona join in with the discussion and will not post my picks since I haven't really decided yet LoL. Anyway, let the fun begin~

[zaim298]

here is my pick, i'm having a great trouble deciding my Military Leader.



Military Leader - will update this later



Military General - Subotai - his accomplishments is unrivaled, he is regarded as the mastermind behind most of Genghis Khan's battle, he commanded a large portion of Khan's army, and is widely considered the reason for Khan's success in military operations to the west.



Military Tactician - Hannibal Barca - against the odds of numbers and military superiority of the Roman army, he was able to defeat them time and time again using well-planned and well-executed tactics. His emphasis on element of surprises in battle is often the key to his success. And crossing the Alps with elephants and terrorizing the Romans where they least expected is just pure awesomeness.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Military Leader - Prophet Muhammad. Amongst many other things, he was a brilliant strategist and organiser, as well as a charismatic leader capable of instilling courage into his troops. He revolutionised warfare in Arabia, where people there fought with no sense of strategy, planing or tactics. In addition to bringing these new elements, he developped (or co-developped) many unconventional tactics, such as trench warfare, reconaissance, spy and informant networks...etc. Also, a great strategist is one who is not afraid to listen to the opinion of his soldiers, which Muhammad did all the time. Furthermore, a great military leader is one who can capitalise on his victories and eventually win with minimal violence, which he did (in fact, he even capitased on his one defeat). Plus, he sometimes participated and was known for his bravery, especially at the battle of Hunayn. Other great military leaders were born in countries where traditions of warfare and strategic planing were present, like Napoleon and Alexander. Muhammad wasn't and from scratch (literraly), he created an army, developped strategies and tactics for it, financed it, inspired it, developped laws, regulations and conventions for it...etc. So succesful was he that only a few decades after his death, his armies reached Spain, Constantinople and China. That's why I think he was the greatest Military leader.

Military general - Khalid Ibn al Walid. He fought about 50 battles and never lost once. He spearheaded the initial conquest of the Sassanid and was very succesful, then was shifted to the Syrian front, where he scored great victories at battles like Ajnadayn and Yarmouk. His army had fewer numbers, worse equipment and less experience than the Byzantine and Sassanian armies and yet he managed to defeat the two superpowers in a very short amount of time. Plus, he executed a perfect double envelopment maneuvre at the battle of Walaja that rivals that of Cannae. And he was a master at deploying and using cavalry at their fullest potential (best demonstrated at the battle of Yarmouk).

Military tactician - Napoleon. When an era of warfare is named after him, you know the guy had great influence on the way it was conducted. He revolutionised warfare, focusing on speed and flank attacks. In many ways, it was a proto-blitzkrieg. To my knowledge, he created the square formation and used it iin Egypt. Plus he was an expert at using canons. Those who hoped to defeat him had to learn his tactics and strategies. That's when you know that a tactician is great.
 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 mars 2010 - 09:49 .

[Statulos]

Military Leader: Temujin "Ghengis Khan".

Probably the biggest conqueror in the history of humankind.



Military General: Jan Zizka of Trocnov.

How can just pesants with not much more than tools and songs defeat crusader army after crusader army? This man is the answer. Probably the greatest Czech of all times.



Military Tactician: Gonzalo Fernández de Córdoba "El Gran Capitán".

Or how can a man sintetize both the Andalusí military tradition, the European medieval one and the ancient Greek and Roman doctrines to create some of the most fear and dreaded soldiers of their age: the Tercios.



I´m forgetting some of the best in my list, like Giorgi Zukov, Al-Manṣūr billah, Heinz Guderian, Salah al-Din, Gaius Iulius Caesar, Henry Morgan, or the Emperor Knut; but those ones, for another day.

[zaim298]

Hmm, I agree with KoP choice for Prophet Mohammad, he practically started from scratch or virtually nothing and built the foundation of the great Arab army.



I think Zukov is a great tactician as well. Salah al-Din definitely ranks as one of the greatest Military Leader. Caesar is a genius from the beginning to the end. I'm not familiar with Canute except that I know him from the Civilization series, will have a read on him later.



Genghis Khan is the greatest conqueror by size of land, no contest there.

[someguy131]

Leader: Julius Caesar, he was able to get not only his troops but much of the people of Rome to accept him as Dictator/Emperor.

General:Alexander the Great, he never lost a battle and conquered almost all of the known world.

Tactician: Hannibal Barca because of the way the way he obliterated completely superior Roman armies at Trebia, Trasmine, and especially Cannae.

[zaim298]

Alexander also personally led the charge and more often than not the changed the tide of battle himself with his companion unit... so he is definitely an awesome general.. i think he is a good all-rounder too

[Statulos]

Alexandros never faced a propper opponent. A crumbling Persian Empire does not even count as "oposition". Surprisingly, he never marched to the West...

[zaim298]

I wouldnt say the Persian Empire is crumbling but it is true the Persian Empire was not at the peak of their power at that time and Darius III is not really a militant/expansionist leader. But he personally led the charge that dealt the winning blow in most battle, so as a general he is one of the best. But I wouldn't say he is the best Military leader or tactician. He practically inherited power and knowledge and yes the opposition he encounters are not really much of an opposition. I thought the reason he march east is to conquer unknown lands.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Alexander was great, but he was helped by the foundations set by his father Philip of Macedon. Without Philip, there wouldn't be an Alexander....well biologically and metaphorically speaking.

And I thought he invaded Persia because Macedon asserted itself as the hegemon over the Greek City-States with the promise of defeating the Persians.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 mars 2010 - 03:03 .

[zaim298]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Alexander was great, but he was helped by the foundations set by his father Philip of Macedon. Without Philip, there wouldn't be an Alexander....well biologically and metaphorically speaking.

And I thought he invaded Persia because Macedon asserted itself as the hegemon over the Greek City-States with the promise of defeating the Persians.

Yep he inherited power and was taught by Aristotle (correct me if i'm wrong) about many things...

He could have gone west after defeating the Persian, no? He made the biggest mistake of pursuing his goal further to the east imo

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think it's becaue the East has always had a "mystical" aspect to it. It was rich, highly civilised, has had a rich history, was the cradle of civilisation...etc. That's not the west, it had little to offer at that time. It was inevitable that Alexander's ambition would drive him to the rich East and not the west.

[corebit]

IMO Hannibal and Flavius Belisarius contend for the top honor.

[zaim298]

@corebit

as a general?tactician?

Maviarab wrote...

Xaim...would love to contribute, but my views will durely start a flame war bigger than WW2....

Intelligence and understanding are very different at times, some of my choices would suprise and shock people, though if your really interested, feel free to pm me and I'll happily give you my opinions...but the interwebs is a strange place, and people misunderstand very easily

why don't you give it a try Mav im sure we can argue in a civilize manner

or does this have something to do with Hitler? well, this thread is not about good guy or bad guy. So if this is what you mean, by all mean please share your reasoning. I personally think that Hitler is a brilliant leader with flaws.

Modifié par zaim298, 05 mars 2010 - 03:58 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Most of the strategies weren't developped by Hitler though. Infact, when he took direct command of the army, his performance was rather poor. I wouldn't consider Hitler a great, or even decent military leader.

[zaim298]

But you have to give him credit though, the Gestapo and able to led an entire nation to wage full-scale war for a cause and making enemies out of almost the entire world, that have to mean something.



Granted he wouldn't even placed in top 100 in any category we mentioned...

[KnightofPhoenix]

That means that he is reckless. He could have been a great leader, if he wasn't obsessed with his stupid ideology that clouded his reason. Otto Von Bismarck is his superior on all fronts.

[zaim298]

LoL XD



oh yeah the Iron Chancellor is definitely a good leader, not sure about military wise though... been ages since I heard about Bismarck, i need to read up on him again... oh this makes me wana play Civilization lol

[Captain Crash]

I certainly agree with Hannibal being in there. The Battle of Cannae is one of the greatest tactical feats in military history. Even reading his battle plan now and how he came up with it simply is awe inspiring. Of course its not as easy to do a movie on it as 300 Spartans.



But this battle was in 216BC which makes it even move impressive that it still has people thinking wow! about it!

[KnightofPhoenix]

The first "professional" army was created by Sargon of Akkad in the 23rd century BC and with it founded the first human empire that spanned the Fertile Crescent. He defeated the Sumerians and the Elamites, conquered the Hurrians (Anatolia) and parts of the Levant. With that in mind, I am sure he was also a great military leader.

[Canned Bullets]

Garrus Vakarian

Held a bridge with only a bolt action sniper rifle for weeks.

[zaim298]

lol who is Garrus Vakarian? don't tell me he/she is from mass effect XD



it doesn't count lol



@Captain Crash



yes I agree Hannibal is definitely one of the best military tactician ever...

[addiction21]

They shall all pale in comparison to me after the great chicken rebellion of 2012.

Too tired to do any real thinking on this but as a leader. Patton was a good one that could get his men to walk into hell with him. Thats something you cannot learn or be taught.

Modifié par addiction21, 06 mars 2010 - 03:32 .

[Harbinger]

I can't name anybody else atm, so I'll update later, who i like in the other cats. But I will say I love Sun Tzu as a Tactician.