113 réponses à ce sujet

[yam123]

Maviarab wrote...

gen·o·cide   /
–noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

Origin:
1940–45;

—Related forms
gen·o·cid·al, adjective


I think you will find by its very definition, war is irrelevent, if you slaughter a whole load people, war or not, you have committed an act of genocide...

So if you wipe out a race of alien beings, based upon the assumption, well they are the enemy and its war, I got my bases covered, you would make one hell of a politician...because your talking rubbish.

Deliberate is the most important part of that definition... if your enemy keeps coming and attacking you and you kill them in defense it's not genocide. In ME1 you don't attempt genocide against the geth. In ME2 though depending on your choice in the geth base you might...

[Llandaryn]

What If The Reapers Are The Good Guys?

They're not.

The Reapers allow civilisations to rebuild so that they can harvest them for reproductive purposes.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Llandaryn wrote...

What If The Reapers Are The Good Guys?

They're not.

The Reapers allow civilisations to rebuild so that they can harvest them for reproductive purposes.

I dunno, that sounds like a pretty awesome hobby.

[jklinders]

Enough with the genocide debate already. Like it or not, exterminating an ethnic group or race is genocide. Problem is the word genocide is very loaded. There is no provision in the definition for self defense. Killing an entire group off is killing an entire group off.



Motivations do not change what it is. Calling it anything else is falling for Orwellian doublespeak.



If we keep this up genocide is going to join fascist and **** in th egroup of words that have lost all meaning through misuse.

[Shizly]

Gabey5 wrote...

the reapers kill and leave.....let civilization return

what if they do this to protect the universe from another alien group that wants to do the same without the return of civilization??

so by killing us they are saving us

Believe me, it doesn't mather that the reapers or someone else kill all of us. It doesn't make sense at all. Then let us live and kill that enemy. And they don't protect us that 50.000 years, they are in dark space.

[cronshaw8]

Gabey5 wrote...

the reapers kill and leave.....let civilization return

what if they do this to protect the universe from another alien group that wants to do the same without the return of civilization??

so by killing us they are saving us
/speculation:wizard:

If they were good guys the would try to protect us. Even if that meant they died in the process. That's what good guys do. At the least they would take us somewhere safe. The real problem with your speculation is that they aren't saving anything. In the current model there is no continuous galactic civilization. The civilization that reappears is not the same as the civilization that was extinguished. That's like saying "well I only have enough food for one pig. So I'll kill this pig and then go out and buy another pig. You didn't save the first pig. you just replaced it. Why not keep the first one?

[Nashiktal]

Gabey5 wrote...

the reapers kill and leave.....let civilization return

what if they do this to protect the universe from another alien group that wants to do the same without the return of civilization??

so by killing us they are saving us





/speculation:wizard:

*Spoilers for the Anime Gurren Lagann.*

Well... That is the plot.

*end spoilers*

[SpectreSeven]

There has to be a good reason why the Reapers do this. It can't just be "because we want to"



I think there could be a choice of joining the Reapers in ME3...

[Calwae]

Has anyone read Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke?

What the Reapers are doing could be a much more violent means of what the Overlords do, come to think of it.

[Inquisitor Recon]

So killing off intelligent life on occasions is a good thing to do? Screams "we're ****s" to me.



And the OP has been marked as a traitor to humanity. Please don't resist the Cerberus agents coming to your house.

[Lothial]

Gabey5 wrote...

so you think..... they said we couldnt possible comprehend it

and the borg said resistance is futile, and darth vader said it was lukes destiny to join him.

The bad guys always say stuff like that.

[Ktotwf]

The Reapers are based, to some extent, off of an amalgam of Lovecraft and the Inhibitors from Revelation: Space.



Note that when humans defeated the Inhibitors, whose job it was to destroy all space faring civilization, they doomed the universe. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the Reapers serve some greater good. In fact, I would bet on it.

[El Spork-o]

cronshaw8 wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

the reapers kill and leave.....let civilization return

what if they do this to protect the universe from another alien group that wants to do the same without the return of civilization??

so by killing us they are saving us
/speculation:wizard:

If they were good guys the would try to protect us. Even if that meant they died in the process. That's what good guys do. At the least they would take us somewhere safe. The real problem with your speculation is that they aren't saving anything. In the current model there is no continuous galactic civilization. The civilization that reappears is not the same as the civilization that was extinguished. That's like saying "well I only have enough food for one pig. So I'll kill this pig and then go out and buy another pig. You didn't save the first pig. you just replaced it. Why not keep the first one?

The argument was made in the thread I referenced a couple of posts ago that the Reapers really do believe they're 'saving' us. Or preparing us for 'Ascension' as Harbinger said at one point. So, no from our perspective it doesn't make sense. From theirs, who knows? And that's sort of ultimate point of the thread, really. Who the 'Good guys' are depends entirely on who's eyes you're looking through. Cartoonish villains that do evil for the sake of doing evil aren't very common in the real world. Villains might even acknowledge that their methods are 'bad' but that they're doing it for the right reasons. You could even argue that Renagade Shepard is like that, doing whatever it takes to get the job done, regardless of the sacrifices that must be made.

[RicadaSurprise]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Dhraconus wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

so you think..... they said we couldnt possible comprehend it

They do Genocide, that is one of the worse things anyone can do.

You do realize that after ME1 Shepard spent all his/her time running around killing Geth?  The goal was genocide.  Also Shepard's goal in ME1-3 is to stop the reapers, do you think Shepard is going to politely ask them to leave?  No, Shepard is likely going to try to destroy them all, or commit genocide.

There's also cultural genocide which wipes out a people in a different way.  Reprogram the Geth or destroy them?  While not complete genocide of all Geth it is a cultural genocide or just genocide of a people, all because of their religious beliefs.

I also have to agree with Maviarab above me, natural disaster's are not genocide and if you believe what Sovereign said the reapers have always been and always will be.  Sure their machines but it could be argued they're a natural disaster, like volcanoes, meteors, or suns going super nova.

But really I tend to think reapers are bad.  I just like playing devil's advocate.

Those where not Geth, those where the Heritics. Reapers are a race, they are not nature. They kill and process races so they can make more Reapers. Maybe it's just me because I am German and I despise the thought of Genocide, but thats me.

What does being German have to do with it? I hope your not refering to the holocaust, cuz im Jewish

[RicadaSurprise]

v1K0 wrote...

There has to be a good reason why the Reapers do this. It can't just be "because we want to"

I think there could be a choice of joining the Reapers in ME3...

I like to refer to the Romans. They had their land on the boot of italy. Then the Carthaginians start claiming more land, more sea, and more trade. Which makes them more powerful. (power = threat) so for their own survival the romans pillage Carthage take their land and the threat is gone. /repeat

in case u didnt get it Romans are reapers
Carthaginians are Galactic species

[Nostradamoose]

Why do I really prefer imagining my reapers comming into battle simply screaming "Kill! Maim! Burn!"



Somehow, it makes decisions way easier.

[Weskerr]

Gabey5 wrote...

the reapers kill and leave.....let civilization return

what if they do this to protect the universe from another alien group that wants to do the same without the return of civilization??

so by killing us they are saving us





/speculation:wizard:

It's always healthy to give galactic genocidal killing machines the benefit of the doubt.

[TLK Spires]

cool story, bro.

[Gabey5]

TLK Spires wrote...

cool story, bro.

i wasnt telling a tale

[FlintlockJazz]

SuperZombieChow wrote...

El Spork-o wrote...

That's an interesting theory, but you forget that all FTL technology in the ME universe is currently based on Mass Effect fields.... which is what the Reapers wanted. They leave the Relays and the Citadel around so species will develope technology based on them. If the death of the universe was being caused by a particular form of tech, they probably wouldn't leave it lying around for the rest of us to play with/base our societies off of.

Unless the assumption is that the act of moving faster then light itself causes the buildup; That it's some by-product of bypassing the laws of relativity. Or perhaps species evolve technologically along typical lines, and all roads lead to Mass Effect fields. If the young races are going to get it anyway, better to give it to them and not explain exactly how it works. That way it's not overproliferated and when the time comes to cull the young races the Reapers know exactly what they are up against.

Read up on Gagarin station in the codex, it tells how before humanity discovered the prothean ruins they were already experimenting with FTL drives, however the FTL drives they were developing were based on completely different tech that could only work in interstellar space, hence Gagarin station or 'Jump Zero'.  Sovereign tells us that the point of mass relays and letting us develop mass effect technology was to 'impose order on the chaos of organic evolution', implying that without the mass relays to guide organics down specific tech paths then we could go off in some unknown direction that they would not want and that organics do not evolve down typical lines.

I'm personally theorising that the defeat of the reapers may involve all organic species having to give up on the mass effect technology in order to develop technology from first principles.  For one, I wonder if mass effect only works because the reapers 'will it' to work, since no one knows why they do work after all this time.  Even dead reapers warp reality with their presence, and mass effect could just be tapping into this, whether the reaper is conscious of this or not.

[tobi_rulz]

the reapers obviously think they are doing good, i doubt they are, probebly some sort of mumbo jumbo where they came to the conclussion that we die anyway and that if they use us to make a reaper they will grant us immortality.

p.s.I wonder is there any chance that there might be two factions of reapers like the geth in which they believe the cycle should end???

[thegreateski]

So . . . be wiped out by the Reapers or be wiped out by the theoretical other bad guys?


. . . . .


I'll kill them both thanks.

Modifié par thegreateski, 06 mars 2010 - 05:57 .

[Hejhej1234]

The Reapers are not evil - they are the keepers of the universe. They allow civilization to grow until there emerges an outstabnding race, which they then preserve eternally through reaperfication. Being liquified may seem bad but is a blessing that we cannot yet comprehend.



Another thing you will have to understand, is that the individual conciousness is an illusion. We are all the same mind, separated physically by our bodies. Therefor it may *seem* that we, as individuals, are unique and more important than the one next to us. In reality, death is a minor thing. Being liquified is a price definatley worth paying to become an eternal godlike entity in the company of other such entities.

[Hanar Shakespeare]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

with the geth we are moving into qurian territory... the geth are better allies if you had to choose in the end

*Smacks Gabey5*

No!  Bad Gabey!  No bringing that discussion in here!  I know what you're up to!

*Talimancer enters thread*: "Did someone mention Quarians?"

Damnit, now look what you've done!

What
exactly is your problem? You've already hijacked this thread by arguing
genocide is subjective. If the original poster wants to bring up a point, don't shoot them down.

Gabey5 wrote...

the reapers kill and leave.....let civilization return

what if they do this to protect the universe from another alien group that wants to do the same without the return of civilization??

so by killing us they are saving us
/speculation:wizard:

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe, there's a valid reason for the Reapers action. Wrong and heinous as they are, maybe there's something else lurkiing in the shadows. I certainly hope so. I don't want this series to be a trilogy. More games, Bioware. More games.

If Bioware doesn't make Knights of The Old Republic 3, then I call for more Mass Effect games.

RicadaSurprise wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Dhraconus wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

so you think..... they said we couldnt possible comprehend it

They do Genocide, that is one of the worse things anyone can do.

You
do realize that after ME1 Shepard spent all his/her time running around
killing Geth?  The goal was genocide.  Also Shepard's goal in ME1-3 is
to stop the reapers, do you think Shepard is going to politely ask them
to leave?  No, Shepard is likely going to try to destroy them all, or
commit genocide.

There's also cultural genocide which wipes out a
people in a different way.  Reprogram the Geth or destroy them?  While
not complete genocide of all Geth it is a cultural genocide or just
genocide of a people, all because of their religious beliefs.

I also
have to agree with Maviarab above me, natural disaster's are not
genocide and if you believe what Sovereign said the reapers have always
been and always will be.  Sure their machines but it could be argued
they're a natural disaster, like volcanoes, meteors, or suns going super
nova.

But really I tend to think reapers are bad.  I just like playing devil's advocate.

Those
where not Geth, those where the Heritics. Reapers are a race, they are
not nature. They kill and process races so they can make more Reapers.
Maybe it's just me because I am German and I despise the thought of
Genocide, but thats me.

What does being German have to do with it? I hope your not refering to the holocaust, cuz im Jewish

Let's keep reality out of this. Slippery slope, people. Slippery slope.

Modifié par Hanar Shakespeare, 17 février 2011 - 08:18 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Q: What if the reapers are the good guys?



A: Then it'd be a Shamala or Hideo wtf ending.