110 réponses à ce sujet

[Spiratic]

Terraneaux wrote...

madisk wrote...

Obliterati wrote...

A cynic would say: this game, like a lot of military sci-fi, is pure libertarian fantasy. All goverments are corrupt and incompetent, and the only way to get anything done is to have an individual hero - preferably heavily armed - take matters into their own hands. With maybe some help from The Illusive John Galt Man.

As far as libertarian fantasies go I'm enjoying this one.

I can't stand it, actually.  I'm one of those people who has a strong dislike for libertarianism, and coincidentally enough I can't stand TIM one bit.

*shrug* I am a libertarian. And if you can name one government that isnt currupt I'll give you a waffle maker lol. The US a country all about "liberty" may have the most currupt government in the world (not president but government). Lobbyist always getting their way is a major signpost saying "curruption this way"

[Bigdoser]

Turkeysock wrote...

We still have allies.

Council:

• If you appointed Anderson, he's 100% with you on fighting the Reapers.
• If you saved the old Council, I'd have to say that the salarian does seem to be on your side, he never uses any sort of sarcasm with Shep, but he does want to see some more evidence. And also I say this because his only complaint about the whole situation is the lack of evidence, that's it, from my experience, people who complain just about that are usually saying underneath "yeah, I believe you, but I need more evidence before I do anything".
• The asari, she's on the fence on the whole issue I think. She believes what Shep is saying, and like the salarian, she needs more evidence before you win here over.
• The only one who openly mocks Shepard is of course the turian, and Udina. But who cares what they think? I'm still hoping we can kick him (Udina) out of an airlock in a DLC or ME3!

Alliance:

• Kaiden/Ashley trust Shepard still, they just don't trust Cerberus, and they are afraid that Shepard might be being controlled some how.
• Hackett, when has Hackett not been there for us? Sure he doesn't call anymore. But I think that might have to do with not knowing Shepards new phone number!

Besides, after the Collector base, we should have more than enough evidence to at least win over the salarian and asari rep, as well as with Hackett. And if you did like I did and cut the ties with TIM and Cerberus, then they can't complain about that anymore. Which seemed to be their main concern with Shep.

By the way, I agree with the guy who said that if a politican doesn't make you want to punch him, than he hasn't done his job. Good thing I don't live near D.C.

    This

[Terraneaux]

Lord_Moose wrote...

*Cracks open a beer and slides it over to an old squadmate*

Howdy Thoombs, how's that merc company of yours going?
He has a good intel network, even pre-ME2 he was able to track down every Cerberus operative involved in the Akuze incident. He's built up a merc group, and i could use a trained fighting force that has experience Crushing Cerberus Operations. Share the info that EDI has thanks to the blocks being removed, and he'll be our best friend.
A sole Survivor could really use a man like him at his/her side

Yeah, he's scarily competent despite being a psychological wreck.  Kind of like my Renegade Shepard, his old squaddie, in fact.  I think there was something wrong in the head with the dudes from that squad to be honest.

[Terraneaux]

Spiratic wrote...

*shrug* I am a libertarian. And if you can name one government that isnt currupt I'll give you a waffle maker lol. The US a country all about "liberty" may have the most currupt government in the world (not president but government). Lobbyist always getting their way is a major signpost saying "curruption this way"

I don't want to get into an argument about Libertarianism vs. it's alternatives, as that would take a little too much effort for this message board (despite that ridiculously long-winded conversation on free will on the other thread), but let's just say I disagree with you and it makes sense that someone with libertarian ideals would find TIM more of a worthwhile figure than someone who didn't.  

[Nightwriter]

Andorfiend wrote...

The council at this point just seems like bad writing. That's kinda my big problem with ME 2, the rest of the galaxy acts like the PLOT demands, rather than in a believable manner. But that having been said, you never do talk to the Alliance, nor are you given the option. You only speak to Anderson and he's retired.

The whole of ME 2 is on rails. I understand why mind you, but it's still disappointing.

What a righteous post. This reminds me why you're on my friends list.

I know, I know, everyone screams "plot device!" Well, it just seems to me that they could've found a way around it, that maybe they could've thought up a way where we had to work with Cerberus WITHOUT making the Council unpalatable to us.

[Terraneaux]

Nightwriter wrote...

Andorfiend wrote...

The council at this point just seems like bad writing. That's kinda my big problem with ME 2, the rest of the galaxy acts like the PLOT demands, rather than in a believable manner. But that having been said, you never do talk to the Alliance, nor are you given the option. You only speak to Anderson and he's retired.

The whole of ME 2 is on rails. I understand why mind you, but it's still disappointing.

What a righteous post. This reminds me why you're on my friends list.

I know, I know, everyone screams "plot device!" Well, it just seems to me that they could've found a way around it, that maybe they could've thought up a way where we had to work with Cerberus WITHOUT making the Council unpalatable to us.

Yup.  There needed to be an option to bring Cerberus down from the inside for Shep.  

[The_Real_Lee]

Sterkiron wrote...

I always liked the Alliance. The Council, too. Even the damned Turian. A politician who doesn't make you want to punch them sooner or later isn't doing their job.

This is true, it's why i'm not sure if I can trust my good old Captain.

[Throw_this_away]

OP, my view is that you can't count on any one group in the game... but I use what allies/resources I am given... even if I plan to ditch them once I got all I can from them.  

Mind you... in my paragon playthrough where I saved the council... I still told them to eff themselves when they offered to have me be a spectre again.  The pissed me off too much over the two games.  

[Nightwriter]

Throw_this_away wrote...

OP, my view is that you can't count on any one group in the game... but I use what allies/resources I am given... even if I plan to ditch them once I got all I can from them.  

Mind you... in my paragon playthrough where I saved the council... I still told them to eff themselves when they offered to have me be a spectre again.  The pissed me off too much over the two games.  

Can't fault you on that. They are starting to get irritating.

I let them make me a Spectre again though. No telling when that might come in handy. Even if we never repair our ties, I didn't want to turn down added power when I need it most.

[Andorfiend]

Spiratic wrote...

*shrug* I am a libertarian. And if you can name one government that isnt currupt I'll give you a waffle maker lol. The US a country all about "liberty" may have the most currupt government in the world (not president but government). Lobbyist always getting their way is a major signpost saying "curruption this way"

This threatens to get wicked off topic so if you want to discuss it further feel free to PM me, but... The US goverment, while partaking of it's share of corruption, is not terribly corrupt as governments go. If you think otherwise take a look at Burma, or Nigeria or even little Dominica. Read a little history about Haiti or Cuba if you want to see what people can get up too. Heck, look up the term 'Bannanna Republic'.

On topic: Holy crap do I want to kill TIM. I would buy a game that was nothing but a TIM shooting gallery.

[Louis deGuerre]

Way off topic : I really like Dominica, nicest bunch of chaps I ever met, aside from Norwegians.

[The_Real_Lee]

For me, I don't trust anyone who gives me my resources. In the first game, we were given Specter status so that we humans would shut up about the attacks, and we were given the Normandy because of "Backroom Politics". When we "Die" the politicians ditch everything we uncovered because it doesn't benefit them right now.



Second game, We are given the new Normandy as well as our life as an investment by Cerberus. This is done to not only save the galaxy, but to make Cerberus stronger. If you upgraded the SR2, the investment panned out, since Cerberus would also have the data on the armor, shields, and main cannon. They also seemed to have access to the IFF, since, if you preserved the station, they have access to it.



Either way, anyone who helps Shepard, is really helping themselves. Council helped to make us shut up, Alliance helped for political reasons, and Cerberus helped for humanity's survival and their own power.

[The_Real_Lee]

Louis deGuerre wrote...

Way off topic : I really like Dominica, nicest bunch of chaps I ever met, aside from Norwegians.

[Gabey5]

Nightwriter wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

if you need the krogan that much you better just jump of a cliff and do the dying yourself rather than wait for the reapers to do it.

?

the krogan arewild brutes....tehy are n precise tacticians which will be required for the reapers...

[Nightwriter]

Schneidend wrote...

Cerberus = "the bad guys" is where I stopped reading.

They just helped you save all of humanity and stop the reapers' latest plot. Get over it and enjoy your fish tank.

Interesting.

I believe Cerberus is an organization containing mixed people with mixed motives. I think of Cerberus as corrupt, yes, but I find that its individual members can range from the criminal to the sincerely well-meaning. Cerberus does contain good people, good people who I feel are working for the wrong organization.

What makes Cerberus predominately "bad" to me are the actions and atrocities that they perpetrate despite these good people with good motives who fill their ranks. A good person may wish to help humanity, and join Cerberus for this reason, but in the end they are all only pawns of TIM, who is out for his own ends and will do anything to reach them.

What TIM does, he does for himself. He does not separate his own needs from the needs of humanity. When he wants safety for humanity, he wants it for himself. When he wants power for humanity, he wants it for himself. When he kills for humanity, he kills for himself. And he is willing to use Cerberus to do anything, and has many times. That's why it's "bad".

Modifié par Nightwriter, 05 mars 2010 - 12:15 .

[Nightwriter]

Gabey5 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

if you need the krogan that much you better just jump of a cliff and do the dying yourself rather than wait for the reapers to do it.

?

the krogan arewild brutes....tehy are n precise tacticians which will be required for the reapers...

... I see.

Didn't Wrex say Clan Urdnot was known for its skilled tacticians?

[TheBlackBaron]

Well, when it comes to boots on the ground (or in a ship, as it were), I can count on Garrus, Tali (she also applies to my Captain's Cabin), Thane, Mordin, and Joker.

With comrades like them, needs the government? Although I certainly won't mind having Cerberus, the Alliance (Anderson and Hackett will get their **** together), the quarians and their recaptured Geth army, and Wrex's admittedly still genophaged krogan on my side either.

I don't know if that qualifies as a libertarian fantasy, but it's certainly an anti-establishment fantasy.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 05 mars 2010 - 12:29 .

[raisedeyebrow]

I think there is hope for the council to come around, and am even more optimistic on the Alliance. (If Hackett and Anderson still have pull, I bet they will back you up with the fleet in the showdown.)



Cerberus, well I don't trust them, but as long as their goals align with your own they seem wiling to help. But I am inclined to agree with Nightwriter's assessment. They are out for themselves / TIM only.

[Aristorum]

Joker's got your back.

[RicadaSurprise]

Nightwriter wrote...

Is there no good political power to be found in the galaxy anymore? No governmental body which can be trusted at all? I spent much of ME2 feeling totally alone and bailed on by the people I had fought for.
 
All the good guys I defended in the first game turned away from me, after everything I did. They all hung me out to dry. The Council won’t believe me, even called me a fool. The Alliance turned the cold shoulder and refused to help.
 
So who’s left? The bad guys. Cerberus. The ones I don’t want to work with. The ones who are corrupt. The ones I am blamed for affiliating with by my former allies even though they leave me absolutely no choice in the matter.
 
Is there no dependable side that I can count on? I feel like there’s no one anymore. Everyone’s either stupid, useless or corrupt. I’m really not even sure my trust in the Council and the Alliance is even salvageable anymore for ME3, even though I did destroy the Collector base and will be fighting on their side.

I,m pretty sure the entire point of ME2 was to build a crew that would help you fight the collectors and or reapers. combine that with the possibilitys of the geth, clan urdnot, possibly Quarians, and Rachni Thats about as good as iy gets

[Atmosfear3]

Conrad Verner's ready don't you guys worry.

[Lord-Elfington]

The Batarians have been pretty consistant . . .

[BlackwindTheCommander]

Those Geth fellas down the block seem nice...