145 réponses à ce sujet

[SuperZombieChow]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I think it has to do with developing the game. If they base the sequel off of so many decisions made from the previous, then they would have to incorporate basically several games into one. Like killing Wrex for instance. If you killed him in ME1 or start off ME2 from scratch, Wrex is dead and is bloodbrother Wreave is the clan leader. Imagine making a half dozen or so similar changes in the game in ME3, but on a much larger scale. The development would take a lot longer and be more expensive and would cover like 3 or 4 dvd's. There would be so many different variations that it would cause Bioware headaches.

This.

If bioware is going to make the changes really count, it was always going to be in ME3. If you let ME2 branch too much, or be hugely impacted early on in the game, then ME3 becomes an absolutely unconquerable behemoth to try and create. You end up making several games worth of content, much of which will never be seen by a fair chunk of the playerbase.

I'm not holding my breath for ME3 to be some massive, branching, twisting monster of a game, but if any of the ME series was going to pull that off it would be ME3. More likely the changes in ME3 will be more then in ME2, but still less then the players who want the whole game to completely change (missions and all) based around what you did in the previous games. After all, these things don't grow on trees, and a video game already costs a fortune to produce without tacking on several more games worth of special side content.

[Schneidend]

No game has choices that actually matter. You're asking Bioware to set that precedent, and getting disappointed when they don't deliver. You can't blame them for a limitation of the entire industry. It's just too costly to make that kind of game given the current technology, and so nobody does it.



Be satisfied that ME2 actually took note of your choices in the first game at all. 99% of sequels don't receive that much effort.

[Madecologist]

I do agree, was Shepard cheating or did he move on and ditched his ME1 LI? It seems minor but it comes off extra obvious if you romance a ME1 returner in ME2. No dialogue involving said character about "what of Ash/Liara". It is like they never existed.

Heck even comparing ME2 LI. Jack does not seem any more worked up if your romance Miranda vs Tali. You'd think Shepard sleeping with the "Cerberus Cheerleader" whould have raised a little Jack ire. Heck I think the OP once rose a point how Tali shows the same loyalty and affection to all Shepards, even those that were total arses with her in ME1 and still an arse with her at the start of ME2. Renegade let council die vs Paragon let council die only has the effect of changing the intro scroll after Miranda and TIM talk, it has no impact on the Citadel (only letting the Council live or die influenced the game a little). Even there it seem to influence it in a superficial way. Maybe it will have a bigger impact in ME3. But will it?

Don't get me wrong, I still think the game was well written and there is a lot of "changes" from choices but more often then not it seems more superficial than definate. Like a friend of mine said, "choices matter... for the flavour text." It does seem a little like that. Heck it did not matter if you romance Ash/Kai or Liara in ME1 because Kelly, Joker, and TIM will ask about Ash/Kai (it only mostly influenced the scene with the said directly mostly, a very short scene).

Modifié par Madecologist, 04 mars 2010 - 06:56 .

[Shepard needs a Vacation]

good points

[kraidy1117]

Schneidend wrote...

No game has choices that actually matter. You're asking Bioware to set that precedent, and getting disappointed when they don't deliver. You can't blame them for a limitation of the entire industry. It's just too costly to make that kind of game given the current technology, and so nobody does it.

Be satisfied that ME2 actually took note of your choices in the first game at all. 99% of sequels don't receive that much effort.

This, while it could have been better, the point that Bioware let us bring our decisions from ME (even if it was minor) to ME2 was still a treat. The thing is, everything will come into full swing in ME3. The Rachni choice will play a huge part in ME3, as we found out how the first war was caused if you spared the Queen. Lets look at the council. If you let the council die, alot of aliens hate you in ME2. While this was a minor gameplay change, it still changed how people thought of your character. That can cause problems in ME3. Why would thwe Turiens, who hate humans help them out in the battle.

I think alot of people just want, want, want and don't look that it would take ALOT of time and alot of money.

[kraidy1117]

Madecologist wrote...

I do agree, was Shepard cheating or did he move on and ditched his ME1 LI? It seems minor but it comes off extra obvious if you romance a ME1 returner in ME2. No dialogue involving said character about "what of Ash/Liara". It is like they never existed.
Heck even comparing ME2 LI. Jack does not seem any more worked up if your romance Miranda vs Tali. You'd think Shepard sleeping with the "Cerberus Cheerleader" whould have raised a little Jack ire. Heck I think the OP once rose a point how Tali shows the same loyalty and affection to all Shepards, even those that were total arses with her in ME1 and still an arse with her at the start of ME2. Renegade let council die vs Paragon let council die only has the effect of changing the intro scroll after Miranda and TIM talk, it has no impact on the Citadel (only letting the Council live or die influenced the game a little). Even there it seem to influence it in a superficial way. Maybe it will have a bigger impact in ME3. But will it?
Don't get me wrong, I still think the game was well written and there is a lot of "changes" from choices but more often then not it seems more superficial than definate. Like a friend of mine said, "choices matter... for the flavour text." It does seem a little like that. Heck it did not matter if you romance Ash/Kai or Liara in ME1 because Kelly, Joker, and TIM will ask about Ash/Kai.

Realy? Because I remember Aliens treating Shepard like hell on the Citidel and the Council expericne was alot diffrent.

[KotOREffecT]

Darht Jayder wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

They did Dragon Age: Origins which had different origin stories, while the rest of the game was (according to what I've read, haven't played it) largely the same for all origins. I don't find it unimaginable that ME3 would pull off something similar, and the origin path for the ME3 story that you take would depend on the choices you made in ME2 and 1. For example, if you chose to keep the base and line up with TIM, you'll start ME3 working with TIM. If you destroyed the base and told him off, you'll start somewhere else, perhaps with the Alliance if there's a human council, or with the Council if you saved them.

Lots of speculation about how ME3 could begin but that is not really what I am talking about.  I am referring more to how a lot of choices outside of the main plot make no difference throughout the galaxy or affect the main plot really.

And just exactly how much did you expect to be changed? This isn't a even sandbox game, and even those games at most your just making personal decisions, but how can you really change a game? Esp when the game has a set forth more personal linear type story, where your Shepard is just making at the most personal choices along the way that BioWare sees fit. I do however, think that the choices that will affect anything the most, is really the whole Collector Base thing. You may just start off with a new beggining in ME 3 depending on that.

And what about the Genophage? Or the whole Quarian struggle? And the Rachni? And the fact that this is a sequel leaves a bit to be desired. This is a three part connecting game in a way,and I think in ME 3 we are gonna see everything from romance to certain decisions come full circle and it will probably feel more satisfying.

Modifié par KotOREffecT, 04 mars 2010 - 06:58 .

[tsd16]

Darht Jayder wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I think it has to do with developing the game. If they base the sequel off of so many decisions made from the previous, then they would have to incorporate basically several games into one. Like killing Wrex for instance. If you killed him in ME1 or start off ME2 from scratch, Wrex is dead and is bloodbrother Wreave is the clan leader. Imagine making a half dozen or so similar changes in the game in ME3, but on a much larger scale. The development would take a lot longer and be more expensive and would cover like 3 or 4 dvd's. There would be so many different variations that it would cause Bioware headaches.

Hey I would wait for that.  It would make the game better...headaches or no.  When you are roleplaying it is important to feel like the choices matter and that the world around you is alive.

I hate to say it, but the goal of a business is to make money.   Mass effect 2 is a great game minus choices having a huge impact.

say you are bioware, you could develop a great game in 2 years, with only 2 years of development and production costs, selling a 50 dollar game.

now you make a truely groundbreaking epic game, that takes 8 years, 8 years work of dev and production costs and sell the same amount of copies at the same price you would have in 2 years, i.e. you made less money.

moreover, you could have developed and released 4 games in the franchise, in the same time frame generating 4 times the money.

I dont know, if im running a business its a no brainer.


I mean as it is its not as if bioware is profit pirates here trying to pass off a mcdonalds cheeseburger for a ribeye steak.  Mass effect 2 was a great game and worth every penny.

Modifié par tsd16, 04 mars 2010 - 07:04 .

[kraidy1117]

Darht Jayder wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

No game has choices that actually matter. You're asking Bioware to set that precedent, and getting disappointed when they don't deliver. You can't blame them for a limitation of the entire industry. It's just too costly to make that kind of game given the current technology, and so nobody does it.

Be satisfied that ME2 actually took note of your choices in the first game at all. 99% of sequels don't receive that much effort.

Don't get me wrong.  It is a great game.  And Bioware did a lot.  But they also promised a lot.  And even more to the point I think they should have done a bit more to at least give the illusion the choices you make matter to the rest of the galaxy or at least to the crew.

Ie.) no one on your crew reacts to you sleeping with or romancing another member of the crew really.  another example, no one cares you activated a Geth on your ship?

Nor does alot of RPGs for that matter, expect for JRPGs. Bioware tries to keep there promises as best as they can and I was surprised of how much was changed in ME2. I was not expectng much at all and I was surprised.

[Hulk Hsieh]

ME is heavy on characters and dialogs, and I expect the reward for the choices to be in that area,too.



And I'm very happy when I saw my old friend, Wrex, welcomed me on Grunt's loyal mission.

It's something warm and fuzzy. ME2 delivers.

[Madecologist]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

I do agree, was Shepard cheating or did he move on and ditched his ME1 LI? It seems minor but it comes off extra obvious if you romance a ME1 returner in ME2. No dialogue involving said character about "what of Ash/Liara". It is like they never existed.

Heck even comparing ME2 LI. Jack does not seem any more worked up if your romance Miranda vs Tali. You'd think Shepard sleeping with the "Cerberus Cheerleader" whould have raised a little Jack ire. Heck I think the OP once rose a point how Tali shows the same loyalty and affection to all Shepards, even those that were total arses with her in ME1 and still an arse with her at the start of ME2. Renegade let council die vs Paragon let council die only has the effect of changing the intro scroll after Miranda and TIM talk, it has no impact on the Citadel (only letting the Council live or die influenced the game a little). Even there it seem to influence it in a superficial way. Maybe it will have a bigger impact in ME3. But will it?

Don't get me wrong, I still think the game was well written and there is a lot of "changes" from choices but more often then not it seems more superficial than definate. Like a friend of mine said, "choices matter... for the flavour text." It does seem a little like that. Heck it did not matter if you romance Ash/Kai or Liara in ME1 because Kelly, Joker, and TIM will ask about Ash/Kai.

Realy? Because I remember Aliens treating Shepard like hell on the Citidel and the Council expericne was alot diffrent.

Did you ream my comment fully? I hilighted the relevent part and underlined the extra relevent part. Yes, it only changed the game a little. Bailey Dialogue mentions a bit more alien hatred, Avina sounds a little more police state. The Turian weapon merchant is more of an ass, but you can still charm/intimidate him for a discount. You still have the same quests, same outcomes, same results at the end of the day.

The only real difference is getting Spectre status, which has little impact on the game except making one quest easier to finish and changes the final line of another quest by a little. Even then, if you pick Anderson you can still get Spectre status back (Living Council gives it to you even with Udina as councelor).

Edit - some grammer fixes.

Modifié par Madecologist, 04 mars 2010 - 07:25 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

Madecologist wrote...
Did you ream my comment fully? I hilighted the relevent part and underlined the extra relevent part. Yes, it only changed the game a little. Bailey Dialogue mentions a bit more alien hatred, Avina sounds a little more police state. The Turian weapon merchant is more of an ass, but you can still charm/intimidate him for a discount. You still have the same quests, same outcomes, same results at the end of the day.

The only real difference is getting spectre status, which has little impact on the game except making one quest easier to finish and changes the final line of another quest by a little. Even then, if you pick Anderson you can still get Spectre status back (Living Council gives it to you even with Udina as councelor).

Well, they can easily delete the discount options with the Turian merchant.
But does it really make a better game?

[Zulu_DFA]

Darht Jayder wrote...
1.)  Yes it will matter.  It has always mattered.  It is part of the human condition to care about this.  Plus you have a crew to consider and keep in line and fraternizing would have an effect.

2.)yes

3.)Yes but everyone talks about Aria....I think given Shepards reputation and his action on Omega....would get him talked about.  He would probably prefer to travel incognito but please...he is Shepard...it would be virtually impossible.  And he flies around in the Normandy with a big Cerberus decal on it.

1. Well, probably you're right. That's why *my* Shepard didsn't fraternise with Ashley Gunnery Chief Williams in ME1, and in ME2 he... well, everyone can see that you can't resist Miranda, and it's not a tight military regulations anymore, and in *my* ME universe aliens are not romanceable (Talimance - another un-sci-fi-ish crappy piece of fanservice), and my true LI is Gianna Parasini. >>>Next>>>

2. Yes, indeed.

3. It would be possible. A new haircut, shades and a nice talk to Bailey would prevent any unwelcome scuttlebutt from spreading around. As for Cerberus insignia on the Normandy - another renegade interrupt pending in the artists' division. I bet TIM could afford to install some fake ID transpoder on his most advanced ship and falsify its manifest.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 04 mars 2010 - 07:11 .

[Madecologist]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Madecologist wrote...
Did you ream my comment fully? I hilighted the relevent part and underlined the extra relevent part. Yes, it only changed the game a little. Bailey Dialogue mentions a bit more alien hatred, Avina sounds a little more police state. The Turian weapon merchant is more of an ass, but you can still charm/intimidate him for a discount. You still have the same quests, same outcomes, same results at the end of the day.

The only real difference is getting spectre status, which has little impact on the game except making one quest easier to finish and changes the final line of another quest by a little. Even then, if you pick Anderson you can still get Spectre status back (Living Council gives it to you even with Udina as councelor).

Well, they can easily delete the discount options with the Turian merchant.
But does it really make a better game?

I am not argueing quality of game, just the OP has the right to make this complaint and that the advertisement for the game plays up the feature a little too much. True PR and adverts always do this, still not an excuse to do so, nor is it unfeasbible to call someone on it when they do it.

[Zulu_DFA]

Madecologist wrote...

The only real difference is getting spectre status, which has little impact on the game except making one quest easier to finish and changes the final line of another quest by a little.

Can you spoil me a bit on both?
If you refer to "I'm spectre, start talking" line in the Thane's loyalty quest, it's not correct. I wasn't reinstated, and pulled the shortest interrogation ever nonetheless.

[KotOREffecT]

Like I said, there are def tough choices to be made in both games, and they do matter, just not how some people overhyped them up to be.. Which is a shame, because some people don't get it it...



Like even for example, if Wrex was on your squad in ME 2, no one would be ****ing about him ,but really, does it even make sense? I mean I thought they did good with him as a new Krogan clan leader, what else was he going to do in ME 2? I felt like the choice to kill him in ME 1 was deep, and it is mentioned through the game at some points, like at the begingging when Miranda and Jacob mention the altercaiton, and you can reply your thought on it, that made me go back and think about him...



So how is a choice like killing Wrex for example suppose to change the game? He was just a great character and by chance could be killed, and if so, he won't be in ME 2. But even as a squad mate, how would that change anything either? Like I said, they handled him well on Tunchunka and I liked talking to him, it gave me this good feeling. And I def think we'll be seeing more of Wrex in ME 3.

[Schneidend]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
and in *my* ME universe aliens are not romanceable

Um, why, exactly? There are clearly interracial couples in the game. You're just setting non-canonical restrictions on yourself.

(Talimance - another un-sci-fi-ish crappy piece of fanservice)

Except that like every sci-fi story with friendly, cultured aliens has interracial coupling? Star Wars, Star Trek, Robotech/Macross, Stargate (any and all iterations), Andromeda, Alien Nation, etc.

[AmstradHero]

DarthCaine: Choices don't matter? "Bugsidian"? I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here and guess you've never attempted to do any sort of game creation or modding.

1. Romances? Right, so picking who I want to romance (or not) should affect the game in a huge way? No, thank you. Some crew members might comment on your romance, but heck, you're doing a stand-up job of saving the galaxy, so why should they care if you fall in love with one of your friends?
2. Well, yes, people probably would wonder what's going with Shepard.  But remember that Shepard is recognised by a lot of people - who is an average Joe/Jane to question the hero who saved the citadel?
3.You've been dead for two years. People tend to forget things pretty quickly. Would you jump up and warmly welcome someone who was big in the news two years ago? And as was stated, Shepard is trying to stay inconspicuous.

Basically, it sounds to me like you wanted a few entirely different games based on your decisions in ME1.  The game already comes on two discs. I doubt console owners want a third disc to install/swap in/out of their drives.   The series is a trilogy and this is only the second installment.  There is only so much variance that can be granted in terms of plot latitude.  This thread seems like your own personal platform to rant about things you don't like. (And along with a few other people on these forums, I don't ever recall you saying positive things about anything) Please point out to me in the "overhyped advertising" where BioWare
said they were going to provide an entirely different game based on
your decision in ME1?  And what would that mean for people who didn't play ME1, or didn't have a save to import for whatever reason?

Yes, at the end of ME2, everyone ended up with the Collectors, the Human Reaper dead and Shepard back on the Normandy with a few crew members - well, at least everyone who has a Shepard to carry through to ME3. If that wasn't the case, how would it be possible to even contemplate a third game with proper continuity? The amount of dialog and subtle differences in conversations that occur as a result of your choices in both ME1 and ME2 are pretty staggering.  But if you're focussing on "hey the game isn't entirely different based on my choices!", and skipping dialogue, you're probably not going to notice that.

Going through ME2 a second time with a Renegade Shepard seeing the
differences in how things played out as a result of previous choices I
thought was fantastic.  Considering the amount of voice acting in the game, I don't care that some ME1 decisions just result in me getting an email from my private terminal.  You deplore that the destination is exactly the same each time - I applaud the fact that the journey takes a slightly different path to get there each time.  It's like watching the same movie multiple times, but being exposed to different characters on the way through it.

I expect to see some of the major decisions we've made throughout the series have a pretty big effect in ME3.  I doubt I will be disappointed - as this is going to be the big finish to the Mass Effect trilogy. I know BioWare can, and do, deliver.