97 réponses à ce sujet

[JMKnave]

Humans lose consciousness after only 10 seconds of loss of oxygen to the brain. Those that follow MMA will be familiar with rear-naked chokes/choke holds which are a technique used to cut off blood circulation to the brain and cause your opponent to "fall asleep".

Brain cells are destroyed after only 4-6 minutes without oxygen. So realistically unless you were rescued and circulation was restored to your brain within those 4-6 minutes, then you would most likely never recover. Once your brain cells are destroyed, they're gone forever and so are any memories/motor functions associated with them. But seeing as this takes place in the future, it is obvious BW took some liberties with this timeline.

Perhaps all N7 armor have built-in stasis mechanisms to preserve the body/brain?

Modifié par JMKnave, 04 mars 2010 - 08:32 .

[lordpaulakoski]

i think in me3 (somewhere in the middel) shepards skin melts and we see that shepard was a t-800 all the time   hint      the red eyes

Modifié par lordpaulakoski, 04 mars 2010 - 08:39 .

[Oawa]

Shepard is this generations Deckard(Blade Runner), and which ever version of the movie you liked will determine what he is, hehe.

[lordpaulakoski]

Oawa wrote...

Shepard is this generations Deckard(Blade Runner), and which ever version of the movie you liked will determine what he is, hehe.

true ... so ture

[frokenscheim]

I kept wondering if there was a small bomb in my skull in case TIM decided he wasn't pleased with my performance...

[epeeist]

Gratuitous remarks: (1) Shepard wasn't dead, he was only mostly dead; (2) No-one could hear him scream.



Some people have been successfully revived (recover mentally) in real-life after drowning in icy water for 20 minutes or more. Temperature makes a difference to revivability. Outer space is cold, and ignoring re-entry (does N7 armour have mass-effect "antigrav" landing functions that engage automatically, in ME1 your character/Alenko/Jenkins initially land without using the Mako, exiting the Normandy just in armour), the planet is frozen/icy (at least in parts, as the Normandy memorial mission shows).



Also (remember, just a sci-fi game!) so long as the information is retained in some way, and freezing would help, even if the brain cells aren't revivable, the "person" in theory would be if the chemical/neuron/whatever connections are preserved (again ignoring ontological/theological questions) even if it was with a set of "replacement" brain cells.



Even ontologically/theologically, depending upon one's views the Shepard with the same body could be a new person (new soul) despite having the same body and memories. In any event, it's the sort of experience that might affect one's worldview significantly (which is again a useful rationale for deciding to go all paragon with a renegade import or vice versa).

[inversevideo]

Well, all I know is that Shepard was 'spaced', went through the rigours of 'planet fall' (literally), and was exposed to vacuum. And now Bioware (via Cerberus Daily News), is 'teasing us with the trial of President Huerta'



March 4th, 2010



The nations of Earth are in suspense tonight as the Systems Alliance hears Ford v. Huerta, the first case of a human leader using reconstructive data storage to prolong his brain functions and stay physically capable to perform his duties. Speaker of the House Lisa Ford has led the charge against Huerta, saying that the last year of his term was illegitimate. A stroke left the President legally dead and in cryocool for an hour and a half before his brain functions were fully transferred to a computer. The amount of memory degradation was never fully revealed. According to the United North American States’ line of succession, if Huerta was considered dead, then power would transfer to the Vice President and Speaker Ford would have held the position of Vice President for the last year.



March 11th, 2010



Expert witnesses were introduced today in the Systems Alliance trial of Ford v. Huerta, starting with the petitioner’s side. Dr. Samuel Wachhaus testified today that President Huerta was brain-dead for too long to make a full recovery. Questioned on Huerta’s apparent cognitive health afterward, Wachhaus testified that the VI ran Huerta’s artificial memory so successfully that it took over his brain functions so that “there was no Huerta anymore. This is not a person with a VI memory, it’s a VI with a partially-organic operating system”. The respondent’s experts will begin testimony tomorrow.



If Shepard is really part VI, or AI, then that would expalin Miranda's indifference to Shepard, when they first speak. Clearly, in the intro scene, with the Illusive Man, Miranda is in awe of Shepard, and speaks almost reverently about him/her. But when they meet, after Shepard is awake, she is anything but, and tells Shepard that if she had her way, she would have put a control chip in him.

But if you take her, to face the 'big bad' at the end, she makes a comment, to T.I.M that references her own family history; which I thought, at the time, was a bit out of context, but could be in context, if she is identifying somewhat with Shepard's reconstruction.



I see that the writers are dealing with concepts, of what it means to be 'alive' and what constitutes sentience, As well as the perils, or advantages of melding the organic with the inorganic.



So I still can't help but wonder just who we are 'playing' in ME2?

[RighteousRage]

I didn't even read the OP but I'm about 90% sure I know what it says, and yes I agree, due to the discontinuity of Shepard's brain activity he is no longer the same person as before

*goes back and reads post after making wild assumptions*

[RighteousRage]

Okay it seems I was almost correct, but yes haha, I still don't think it's the same Shepard. He is now a cyborg. I don't know how they resuscitated him with his memories intact. Maybe he really was just in a coma and Jacob was using a figure of speech? Restoring his memories would imply they knew the exact bio-electrical state of his mind, unless they're just handwaving it. Either way, even if it is the exact same body and the exact same brain, if brain activity ceased and then was restored through technological means then it's not really the same person, but another person (or synthetic) with the same memories as the prior constituent.



Read this book for more of my opinion

Modifié par RighteousRage, 11 mars 2010 - 05:37 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

Oawa wrote...

Shepard is this generations Deckard(Blade Runner), and which ever version of the movie you liked will determine what he is, hehe.

Always dreaming about unicorns...

Hope the cyborg aspect will have a good payoff in the last one.  Cerberus trying to assume direct control or something.  Could be awesome.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 11 mars 2010 - 05:35 .

[HAGA NAGA]

well. Shepard certainly has some new parts, but since his memories and personality are "intact" I would say that he/she is still Shepard.

[inversevideo]

RighteousRage wrote...

Okay it seems I was almost correct, but yes haha, I still don't think it's the same Shepard. He is now a cyborg. I don't know how the resuscitated him with his memories intact. Maybe he really was just in a coma and Jacob was using a figure of speech? Restoring his memories would imply they knew the exact bio-electrical state of his mind, unless they're just handwaving it. Either way, even if it is the exact same body and the exact same brain, if brain activity ceased and then was restored through technological means then it's not really the same person, but another person (or synthetic) with the same memories as the prior constituent.



Read this book for more of my opinion

I wondered about the mind reconstruction thing too.
And then it hit me that Liara gave them your body.
Liara who regardless of whether she was your LI, in ME1, or not, most likely melded with you at least once, to put you on the path to Illos.

Liara, who is Asari and does the whole syncing of nervous systems, and melding of minds, thoughts, personality, reading genetic makeup.  If they had a way of recovering the missing info, on Shepard, by reading Liara, then they would have everything they needed.

R.E "Thinking Clearly About Death", looks interesting, I will take a look for it. Thanks!

[The Governator]

I tend to disagree that Shepard is Shepard. The only plausible reason I can understand for TIM to want Shepard the way he/she was is because that is the person who was able to lead the team and execute the plan which prevented Sovereign's plan to retake the citadel and begin the harvest. Otherwise I think TIM was delusional in thinking a morally idealistic Shepard would give over the base, or that a refractory Shepard would be taking orders from anyone but himself/herself. It makes more sense to have Shepard influenced and controlled somehow.

[LOLandStuff]

It's his/her evil twin with the goatee shaved.

[Daralii]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Oawa wrote...

Shepard is this generations Deckard(Blade Runner), and which ever version of the movie you liked will determine what he is, hehe.

Always dreaming about unicorns...

Hope the cyborg aspect will have a good payoff in the last one.  Cerberus trying to assume direct control or something.  Could be awesome.

TIM saying "Assuming direct control," Shep's implants glow orange and burn away his/her flesh?

Make it happen, Bioware

[drew.winters]

I think it's clear in-game that the writers consider revived-Shepherd to be the same Shepherd. Is the OP's question whether the writers think so, or whether this would be the case in the real world were the Lazarus project technology available?



To the person above who argued re: souls. It's logically inconsistent to apply natural logic to a supernatural explanation. That is, you are assuming there are natural laws which govern the behavior of a soul; specifically, you assume that when a person dies their soul must immediately leave the body and the physical universe. Now, without a creator-God, you cannot account for even the existence of a soul. Assuming Einstein was at least mostly correct, time is merely another aspect of the universe - therefore it is logical to assume that a creator-God would not be limited by time. Therefore, it is logically consistent to assume that if people have souls, and a person dies only to be resurrected later (e.g., Lazarus), that God would transfer or hold the soul until their resurrection.



Of course, this is all just a thought exercise, since, by definition, a soul cannot be proven or disproved. For the record though, I'm a Christian and I do not believe in an immaterial soul. But that's another topic altogether...



TL;DR? -- I think souls are irrelevant to the topic, even if we aren't talking solely about the game.

[Nizzemancer]

Suron wrote...

shepard is shepard.

and sorry but if you watch his angle of tragectory he is in FACT entering atmosphere just before the logo shows....I guess his armor somehow saved him from being completely vaporized but this "I imagine he was still in orbit" is a bunch of crap.

he entered the planet and hit ground.

You're judging an objects position in space against an object of unknown size and distance based on trajectory from one static point of view alone? yeah, good luck with that...

For all we know he took a trip to earth and back, there are to little data to say anything for certain.

The devs says he's shepard, so until they otherwise he is shepard not clone-shepard or reaper-shepard and not cyborg-shepard, just plain old reconstructed superspacemarine spectreheroguy shepard .

And having the option to say that you don't know anything about cerberus is just an option, it is possible to complete ME1 without hearing about them after all, and people who's never played ME1 might want some backstory as well.

[Nizzemancer]

drew.winters wrote...

TL;DR? -- I think souls are irrelevant to the topic, even if we aren't talking solely about the game.

Was that pun intended?

frokenscheim wrote...

I kept wondering if there was a small bomb in my skull in case TIM decided he wasn't pleased with my performance...

That reminds me;
The bomb says no, Brian

Modifié par Nizzemancer, 11 mars 2010 - 09:31 .

[Nizzemancer]

frokenscheim wrote...

I kept wondering if there was a small bomb in my skull in case TIM decided he wasn't pleased with my performance...

That reminds me;
The bomb says no, Brian

[Mooner911]

Id, Ego, and Super Ego. Shep retains all 3. Shep knows that he/she is Shep. To Shep, it is a fact and undeniable truth. All other arguments are sourced from non-first-person perspective and thus cannot be proven to be certain, factual, or truthful. For you or me to imply that Shep is or isn't Shep is moot. The only possible way that Shep is not Shep is if 'Shep' is lieing and knows him/herself to be someone else.

[GenericPlayer2]

Shep never died, he was recovered by the Alliance and is in a coma. ME2 is just a dream



*cue Dallas theme music*

[Nizzemancer]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

Shep never died, he was recovered by the Alliance and is in a coma. ME2 is just a dream

*cue Dallas theme music*

Who shot C.S.?

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Nice idea, OP. I wonder the same a few times. I do think Shep is Shep, as we know the trilogy is Shepard's story. It would be odd to have the main character die after the first game.

[Marstead]

I think the more interesting idea, given that we never see Shepard's face on the Normandy at the beginning, is that the Shepard in the opening cutscene isn't Shepard at all.

To clarify, I think the Shep you play as in ME2 is the same Shep as the one in ME1, but I wonder if the Shep in the destruction of the Normandy is him.

Going to let that sink in rather than speculate further.

Modifié par Marstead, 12 mars 2010 - 12:37 .