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[Nozybidaj]

Obviously one of the major elements of the game that people love to speculate about are the romances, how they are going to work out, and how your choices will effect their development and outcomes.  One of the big questions that will come up as we approach ME3 will be "who are the romance options going to be and how will cheating/staying faithful effect that?".  

ME2 introduced a lot of variablity to the romance options.  In fact, I don't think many realize just how much.   This has created an absolutely monumental task for Bioware to try and give everyone satisfactory conclusions to these plots.  In an effort to try and predict what outcomes we may see lets look first at where we are today and the number of individual romance arcs there are.

In ME1 you could play as either maleShep of femShep.  Each had two romance options or could stay single.
maleShep/single
maleShep/Liara
maleShep/Ashley

femShep/single
femShep/Liara
femShep/Ashley

So from ME1 we have 6 possible outcomes to the romance plots to enter into ME2.

ME2 does away with these outcomes and introduces new ones.  3 for maleShep and 3 for femShep along with a 4th "fling" option.  The possible outcomes for ME2 look like this,
maleShep/single
maleShep/Miranda
maleShep/Jack
maleShep/Tali
maleShep/Kelly

femShep/single
femShep/Jacob
femShep/Garrus
femShep/Thane
femShep/Kelly

From ME2 we have a total of 10 possible outcomes to the romance plots without factoring in ME1.  Once we do figure in the possibilities from ME1 you see the outcomes start to grow at an alarming rate.
maleShep/single/single
maleShep/single/Miranda
maleShep/single/Jack
maleShep/single/Tali
maleShep/single/Kelly
maleShep/Liara/single
maleShep/Liara/Miranda
maleShep/Liara/Jack
maleShep/Liara/Tali
maleShep/Liara/Kelly
maleShep/Ashley/single
maleShep/Ashley/Miranda
maleShep/Ashley/Jack
maleShep/Ashley/Tali
maleShep/Ashley/Kelly

femShep/single/single
femShep/single/Jacob
femShep/single/Garrus
femShep/single/Thane
femShep/single/Kelly
femShep/Liara/single
femShep/Liara/Jacob
femShep/Liara/Garrus
femShep/Liara/Thane
femShep/Liara/Kelly
femShep/Kaidan/single
femShep/Kaidan/Jacob
femShep/Kaidan/Garrus
femShep/Kaidan/Thane
femShep/Kaidan/Kelly

So, by the end of ME2 we now have a total of 30 unique outcomes for the relationships.  Wow.  It didn't seem quite so bad in ME2 because the inclusion of the ME1 LI variable was ignored, but the "suggestion" is that in ME3 these LI's will return in at least some fashion and that the choices you made are going to have an impact on the game.  So 30 different possible outcomes entering the final game that BW needs to account for.  Let's assume that in ME3 there will be NO NEW romances just for the sake of keeping things simple.  If they bring back the ME1 LI's and keep all the ME2 LI's the possible choices in ME3 look like the following.
maleShep/single
maleShep/Liara
maleShep/Ashley
maleShep/Miranda
maleShep/Jack
maleShep/Tali
maleShep/Kelly

femShep/single
femShep/Liara
femShep/Ashley
femShep/Jacob
femShep/Garrus
femShep/Thane
femShep/Kelly

14 different possible relationships in ME3, including once again the option to stay single and have Kelly.  Of course that isn't all, because as BW said your choices from the previous games will have an effect on ME3.  So lets look at the number of possibilities for ME3.

Lets Start with maleShep single in ME1 and single in ME2:
maleShep/single/single/single
maleShep/single/single/Liara
maleShep/single/single/Ashley
maleShep/single/single/Miranda
maleShep/single/single/Jack
maleShep/single/single/Tali
maleShep/single/single/Kelly

MaleShep single in Me1 and romanced Miranda in ME2:
maleShep/single/Miranda/single
maleShep/single/Miranda/Liara
maleShep/single/Miranda/Ashley
maleShep/single/Miranda/Miranda
maleShep/single/Miranda/Jack
maleShep/single/Miranda/Tali
maleShep/single/Miranda/Kelly

MaleShep single in Me1 and romanced Jack in ME2:
maleShep/single/Jack/single
maleShep/single/Jack/Liara
maleShep/single/Jack/Ashley
maleShep/single/Jack/Miranda
maleShep/single/Jack/Jack
maleShep/single/Jack/Tali
maleShep/single/Jack/Kelly

Without going through every single possible combination you should be able to see how this very quickly escalates into a completely and totally unconquerable hurdle for BW to manage. I will tell you, there are 105 combinations for maleShep and 105 combinations for femShep for a total of 210 unique outcomes for the relationships in ME3.



Uh, wow.  What a mess.

Now I think it is obvious BW isn't going to plan out 210 permutations of the romance plots for specific endings based on your choices from both games so we either need to cut the number of permutations down or make them generic.  I think they'll probably do both.  For example, if you had a romance from ME1 and you have a new romance in ME2 there are a total of 16 different "confrontations" that could occur.  They will probably, at a minimum have two versions of the ME1 side of the confrontation.  One set of dialogue for Ash/Kaidan that is shared and one set of dialogue unique to Liara that is used regardless of who the ME2 romance is.  Then each ME2 romance has one set of dialogue regardless of who the ME1 LI is.  Generic?  Yes, but we have now cut the amount of dialogue that needs to be recorded considerably.

Beyond that though they have hinted that these choices from the past game will impact how your ME3 romance plays out.  Again they could go the generic route and press the reset button just like they did for ME2.  This would bring the total number of romance arcs needed to be developed for ME3 down to 10.  This would probably upset folks starting all the relationships over from step 1 as if they were all brand new, but it would certainly be the easiest from a resource stand point.  They've already done it once, so it isn't inconceivable but probably not likely.

So how will the different romances develop based on your decisions and will it effect who you can actually romance in ME3?  The first thing to do is to start finding combinations of the 210 that we can eliminate from the chart.  Obviously if you are single/single/single that is one we can eliminate since you have no relationship, along that same line we can probably eliminate all the ones that are */*/single since it would be easiest to just ignore all the relationship combinations where you don't start a new one in ME3.  That is 30 combinations right off the top but still leaves 180, so what to cut next?

I would venture to guess that any ME2 LI that you did NOT start a romance with in ME2 will NOT be an option in ME3.  For example if you stayed single or romanced Tali in ME2 you can't then turn around and romance Jack in ME3.  This will eliminate 96 possible combinations from the chart, leaving you with 84 combinations still remaining.

I would also venture to guess along the same lines if you did not romance an ME1 LI in ME1 then you will not be able to romance them in ME3.  For example if you were single or romanced Kaidan in ME1 you can't romance Liara in ME3.  This eliminates another 40 possible combinations leaving us with 44 combinations still remaining.

Out of these 44 combinations, I think it is plausible (and appropriate) that if you "cheated" on your ME1 LI in ME2 that you can not romance that ME1 LI in ME3.  For example if you romanced Liara in ME1 and romanced Miranda in ME2 you can not turn around and romance Liara in ME3.  This eliminates an additional 16 more combinations leaving us at 28 combinations.



Considering that 8 romance combinations in ME2 left them all feeling a little flat I am not sure that 28 is still a reasonable number of romance options for ME3.  All that is left though is to start eliminating entire romance arcs for individuals altogether.  The easiest one to cut at this point is Kelly as it was stated she is more of a "fling" than a true romance option.  That eliminates 6 more.  That leaves us with 22 romance options.

If at this point we ignore who the ME1 option is for a romance arc that ends with an ME2 LI we can eliminate 12 more combinations in ME3.  This runs us dangerously close to the generic romance option, but by treating an ME2 romance as if you never had an ME1 romance it does make things much more managable.  This leaves us with 10 romance options which is right about where ME2 was.



Why go through this exercise and what conclusion am I trying to reach? Well, to me it looks like your "decisions" about who your romance is won't be nearly as important as some are thinking it will be.  My guess is you will either get a continuation of an ME1 romance if you stayed faithful or a continuation of an ME2 romance as if you never had an ME1 romance.  

Just from looking at the sheer number of combinations I don't think we will see outcomes as intricately planned as who you romanced in ME1 and cheated on them with in ME2 having any sort of significant impact on how the romances play out in ME3.  This more or less shoots down any sort of "payoff" coming for folks who stayed faithful throughout ME2.  At best we will get the single "generic" confrontation I described earlier and the fact that you cheated will probably never come up again.  If you stayed faithful I doubt any sort of extra scene or dialogue will be included.

Feel free to agree, disagree, or offer your own thoughts on how many variable romance plots we'll see develop in ME3.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 04 mars 2010 - 07:37 .

[Madecologist]

Wow.... add in if Shepard did do a ME1/ME2 romance, his motivations as to why (cheat, moving on, Kirk of the ME universe) and I think we just exploded someone.. somewhere.

Bioware can always file bankruptcy before needing to release ME3. Or pull a Duke Nuke'em Forever on us. *impish look*

[Nozybidaj]

Yes, I know, wall of text crits you for over 9,000! =D

[The Angry One]

tl;dr: BioWare will be lazy about the romances and keep it simple? Probably.

[GuardianAngel470]

Very, very well done. I tried to do something like this in another thread but I wasn't narrowing it down to just LIs, I was including all decisions. Needless to say I didn't complete it to the degree you did because I couldn't account for every decision as well as any new decisions that came about as a result of decisions affecting Me2. It got messy.



Again, this was very well done and thank you for putting the time into this.

[Madecologist]

The Angry One wrote...

tl;dr: BioWare will be lazy about the romances and keep it simple? Probably.

A confrontation can use the classical "them/him/her" pronoun. Or just have the VA loop the same line for each with just saying a different name for each. "Better tell Thane the truth" "Better tell Garrus the truth" "Better tell Jacob the truth." Have the same overall dialgoue.

But yes, I am expecting a simplified resolution.

[Avissel]

...you made charts?

[Nozybidaj]

Agreed. I would have loved to get more personalized stories, but I think introducing such a large number of variables they kind of shot themselves in the foot to even be able to attempt it.

[Nozybidaj]

Avissel wrote...

...you made charts?

Some people work better off visuals and I wanted folks to understand it.  Plus it takes all of 10 seconds to whip it up in Excel.

[Madecologist]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Avissel wrote...

...you made charts?

Some people work better off visuals and I wanted folks to understand it.  Plus it takes all of 10 seconds to whip it up in Excel.

Charts are always good! Back at University, I was strongly encourage to use charts. In my papers, in my thesis, while TAing. Charts all the way. Heck I am trying to write a PNP system and again, first recommandation I got, if you can chart it.. do so.

[Pannamaslo]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Thorough analysis

Wow...I mean...WOW.

And I agree. BW won't make Mass Effect dating sim, so the outcome of your analysis is very probable.

Modifié par Pannamaslo, 04 mars 2010 - 07:54 .

[The Angry One]

In my mind it's most probably going to degenerate into:

Miranda/Jacob = run off elsewhere/back to Cerberus/freelance/whatever

Thane/Jack = dead, Thane has an expiry date, Jack has too and both have a high chance of getting themselves killed in daily life

Garrus/Tali = Fling. Horrible interspecies failed romance thing.

Hence ME3 will have new LI options and the ME1 LIs will basically be "You had an LI in ME2 yes/no".
Kelly doesn't count for anything now, she won't in ME3

[Pannamaslo]

The Angry One wrote...

In my mind it's most probably going to degenerate into:

Miranda/Jacob = run off elsewhere/back to Cerberus/freelance/whatever

Thane/Jack = dead, Thane has an expiry date, Jack has too and both have a high chance of getting themselves killed in daily life

Garrus/Tali = Fling. Horrible interspecies failed romance thing.

Hence ME3 will have new LI options and the ME1 LIs will basically be "You had an LI in ME2 yes/no".
Kelly doesn't count for anything now, she won't in ME3

 
That would be just  mean and cause BW forum to implode from a nerdrage.  Would break internet or something...

Modifié par Pannamaslo, 04 mars 2010 - 08:04 .

[kraidy1117]

The Angry One wrote...

In my mind it's most probably going to degenerate into:

Miranda/Jacob = run off elsewhere/back to Cerberus/freelance/whatever

Thane/Jack = dead, Thane has an expiry date, Jack has too and both have a high chance of getting themselves killed in daily life

Garrus/Tali = Fling. Horrible interspecies failed romance thing.

Hence ME3 will have new LI options and the ME1 LIs will basically be "You had an LI in ME2 yes/no".
Kelly doesn't count for anything now, she won't in ME3

Yes because Miri would go back to Cerberus after telling TIM to screw off. Angry don't be bias.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 04 mars 2010 - 08:08 .

[Wild Still]

TLDNR



This LI crap is getting even more impressively lame. Lesbian LI stuff sold copies of ME1, yay controversy moved units. Can we not put that lame ol' horse out to pasture now?

[Nozybidaj]

The Angry One wrote...

In my mind it's most probably going to degenerate into:

Miranda/Jacob = run off elsewhere/back to Cerberus/freelance/whatever

Thane/Jack = dead, Thane has an expiry date, Jack has too and both have a high chance of getting themselves killed in daily life

Garrus/Tali = Fling. Horrible interspecies failed romance thing.

Hence ME3 will have new LI options and the ME1 LIs will basically be "You had an LI in ME2 yes/no".
Kelly doesn't count for anything now, she won't in ME3

That actually wouldn't be bad as at least they could devote more resources to the continuing romances.

[exelsis]

The Angry One wrote...

In my mind it's most probably going to degenerate into:

Miranda/Jacob = run off elsewhere/back to Cerberus/freelance/whatever

Thane/Jack = dead, Thane has an expiry date, Jack has too and both have a high chance of getting themselves killed in daily life

Garrus/Tali = Fling. Horrible interspecies failed romance thing.

Hence ME3 will have new LI options and the ME1 LIs will basically be "You had an LI in ME2 yes/no".
Kelly doesn't count for anything now, she won't in ME3

Tali, FLING? you, my xenophobic sir, have unleashed the wrath of the TALIMANCERS!!
GOGO TALIMANCERS!

[Madecologist]

exelsis wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

In my mind it's most probably going to degenerate into:

Miranda/Jacob = run off elsewhere/back to Cerberus/freelance/whatever

Thane/Jack = dead, Thane has an expiry date, Jack has too and both have a high chance of getting themselves killed in daily life

Garrus/Tali = Fling. Horrible interspecies failed romance thing.

Hence ME3 will have new LI options and the ME1 LIs will basically be "You had an LI in ME2 yes/no".
Kelly doesn't count for anything now, she won't in ME3

Tali, FLING? you, my xenophobic sir, have unleashed the wrath of the TALIMANCERS!!
GOGO TALIMANCERS!

I am suprise no Garrus fan has jumped on this yet............

[jtav]

I expect there will be a generic "You had a relationship with him/her. What about us?" line that each returning LI will use. They don't need a unique spiel for each. And I doubt they will write out the entire cast.

[exelsis]

the garrus thing probably isnt a normal relationship anyway. also, he doesnt have that large of a fanbase, not like the godess Tali.

[Sesshomaru47]

Madecologist wrote...

exelsis wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

In my mind it's most probably going to degenerate into:

Miranda/Jacob = run off elsewhere/back to Cerberus/freelance/whatever

Thane/Jack = dead, Thane has an expiry date, Jack has too and both have a high chance of getting themselves killed in daily life

Garrus/Tali = Fling. Horrible interspecies failed romance thing.

Hence ME3 will have new LI options and the ME1 LIs will basically be "You had an LI in ME2 yes/no".
Kelly doesn't count for anything now, she won't in ME3

Tali, FLING? you, my xenophobic sir, have unleashed the wrath of the TALIMANCERS!!
GOGO TALIMANCERS!

I am suprise no Garrus fan has jumped on this yet............

They're probably right. Garrus tries to get out of it right up till the last second in your room. Makes me think it's not the right thing, Tali has Kal. She does I tell you. They make such a nice couple and he can't kill her with germs.

[exelsis]

kal reegar is in no way in a relationship with tali, and he CAN still make her sick. remember the quarian general getting sick when she connected with talis mother?