214 réponses à ce sujet

[Nozybidaj]

Yeled wrote...

Yep.  It pretty much sucks.  There's a part of me that doesn't even want to bother with ME3, because I didn't feel a connection to ME2.  I realize it was a good game, but it felt like a hiccup without any purpose.  I had no emotional attachment to it whatsoever.  I didn't get immersed.  Its the first game Bioware's made that really disappointed me.

Agreed ME2 was a huge letdown.  I couldn't care less one way or the other about any of the characters or the story.  In fact I'd be perfectly content to import an ME1 save into ME3 so long as the "default" set of choices for ME2 is "everyone dies". 

Of course I'll wait to see what ME3 is going to be.  Is it going to continue the story from ME1 where we get the original crew back and follow their story, the way ME2 should have?  Or is it going to continue the story from ME2?  If it is the later and the original crew is all cameo'ed again I see no reason to have any interest in it.

[redguppie]

Technically only half of the original crew weren't recruitable. So does that mean you are also campaigning so hard for the return of the half that was not Liara Ash/Kaiden?

Modifié par redguppie, 05 mars 2010 - 02:34 .

[Nozybidaj]

redguppie wrote...

Technically only half of the original crew weren't recruitable. So does that mean you are also campaigning so hard for the return of the half that was not Liara Ash/Kaiden?

Yes, except for Wrex, I think he is in a really great role leading the Krogan, would love to see more of it though.  I would love for Garrus/Tali to be back.

[aznsoisauce]

The Angry One wrote...

In my mind it's most probably going to degenerate into:

Miranda/Jacob = run off elsewhere/back to Cerberus/freelance/whatever

Thane/Jack = dead, Thane has an expiry date, Jack has too and both have a high chance of getting themselves killed in daily life

Garrus/Tali = Fling. Horrible interspecies failed romance thing.

Hence ME3 will have new LI options and the ME1 LIs will basically be "You had an LI in ME2 yes/no".
Kelly doesn't count for anything now, she won't in ME3 

WHAT
I don't even... 

Madecologist wrote...
I am suprise no Garrus fan has jumped on this yet............

Garrus adorers are too ill with Palaven Fever to comment.

(DAS RIGHT I revived the thread just to comment on stuff from the first ****ing page)

[shepardbook]

I've enjoyed the conversation going on in this topic. I missed that Jack had a possibly fatal condition... Completely missed it... I just completed a character in ME1 with no LI, so I could romance Miranda with no cheating.



It got me thinking about possible new LIs for M3, and if there'd be cheating ramifications for that. I know this is speculation, ME2 has been out a little over a month at this point, but how many new LIs do you all think Bioware would introduce in M3? 2 per gender? 3? With the excel table earlier posted, it does seem like it could be too many permutations for the creative team of M3, but I look forward to seeing how they approach the issue and how they deal with it!



Just a thought...



It's truly going to be very interesting to see how ME1 LIs are integrated back into the team.

Cheers!

[Yeled]

Nozybidaj wrote...

redguppie wrote...

Technically only half of the original crew weren't recruitable. So does that mean you are also campaigning so hard for the return of the half that was not Liara Ash/Kaiden?

Yes, except for Wrex, I think he is in a really great role leading the Krogan, would love to see more of it though.  I would love for Garrus/Tali to be back.

Interesting.  I latched on to them as well during my playthrough.  In ME1 I didn't use either a lot, but in ME2 I treated them like trusted old friends and they were very often in my squad during missions.

Didn't cheat on Liara, though.

[Nozybidaj]

Yeled wrote...


Interesting.  I latched on to them as well during my playthrough.  In ME1 I didn't use either a lot, but in ME2 I treated them like trusted old friends and they were very often in my squad during missions.

Didn't cheat on Liara, though.

I almost always kept Tali in my squad.  My favorite set up was Solider Shep/Liara/Tali.  They would rock faces! 

Garrus was like my maleShep's best bud.  Kinda like what Jacob wanted to be before I brushed him off.  If he had tried to brohug my Shep they better have had a renegade interrupt available.

[MarginalBeast]

shepardbook wrote...

I've enjoyed the conversation going on in this topic. I missed that Jack had a possibly fatal condition... Completely missed it... I just completed a character in ME1 with no LI, so I could romance Miranda with no cheating.

It got me thinking about possible new LIs for M3, and if there'd be cheating ramifications for that. I know this is speculation, ME2 has been out a little over a month at this point, but how many new LIs do you all think Bioware would introduce in M3? 2 per gender? 3? With the excel table earlier posted, it does seem like it could be too many permutations for the creative team of M3, but I look forward to seeing how they approach the issue and how they deal with it!

Just a thought...

It's truly going to be very interesting to see how ME1 LIs are integrated back into the team.
Cheers!

Hopefully none.

[Nozybidaj]

MarginalBeast wrote...

Hopefully none.

If the "important" role the ME1 squad was kept safe from the suicide mission for is another round of cameos that doesn't bode well for the ME2 crew that can all die.

[Deztyn]

Comments by the Devs indicate Ash/Kaidan and Liara were kept safe for more than just a quick shag in ME3. Liara has a unique role as an information broker. Ashley and Kaidan are interchangeable as the Alliance's new go-to person. Perhaps even as the next human Spectre. They couldn't fulfill this role while joining Shepard as an ally of Cerberus, even if they forced their survival during the suicide mission.

And for those saying that the ME2 love interests should get the same treatment as the ME1 love interests. . . well, I agree. It's only fair. They should all have a role in two games out of three.

Modifié par Deztyn, 05 mars 2010 - 04:40 .

[aznsoisauce]

Deztyn wrote...
And for those saying that the ME2 love interests should get the same treatment as the ME1 love interests. . . well, I agree. It's only fair. They should all have a role in two games out of three.

You...!

[MassAffected]

So I've finally finished reading this here fine thread and it seems that the folks that are upset about the ME1 LIs really want the people who are happy with the ME2 LIs to suffer...why not just hope that BioWare will listen to fan feedback and expand on ALL aspects of the game and the characters. Why do we have to be enemies?

[Lord Coake]

I'll settle for continuing to break headboards with Tali. As quiet and unassuming as she is, she's likely a screamer too, so I'll get earplugs for the crew.

[Nozybidaj]

MassAffected wrote...

So I've finally finished reading this here fine thread and it seems that the folks that are upset about the ME1 LIs really want the people who are happy with the ME2 LIs to suffer...why not just hope that BioWare will listen to fan feedback and expand on ALL aspects of the game and the characters. Why do we have to be enemies?

Honestly, I don't have anything against the new crew.  Don't like em but I don't hate em either.  I just get riled up when folks like to come in and act all smug about "how great their role was in ME2". <_<

That said, with the sheer number of characters they are going to have to develop for ME3 it will mean resources are going to be spread very thin.  Even in a character focused game like ME2 doing all 10 squad mates left each of them not as fully developed as they should have been.  Now throw on top of that the ME1 crew and the fact that the main focus in ME3 is going to be the final battle and not character development and you get a lot of folks just plain mad about the fact that the ME1 crew is never going to get the kind character focused treatment the ME2 characters got and any attention the characters do get in ME3 is going to be split across this huge cast of characters.

In the end I think we are going to see very little character development in ME3 which means these characters we grew attached to in ME1 are never going to get the proper character development one would expect across a trilogy.  Not to mention how negative and out of character their current incarnations are in the sequel, espcially in the Liara reunion.

There is also the "promise" that the ME1 LI's were kept out of ME2 for some important role in ME3.  While not at all an entirely satisfatory answer it at least gave some hope to those folks.  If they turn around in ME3 though and the ME2 crew gets brought along and gets just as big a part and just as large an amount of content as the ones that were left out of ME2 it will leave those folks feeling like BW lied to them.  If we see all these ME2 characters in ME3 why was my character left out again?  That's right, no real reason at all.

It does at times feel like certain groups need to set themselves up as enemies as they campaign for their chosen character to get the attention they deserve.  Blame BW for that though, not the posters on the forum.  It was BW's choice to do a suicide mission, it was BW's choice to abandon the original LI's in the sequel, it was BW's choice to force these new characters on us, and it was BW's choice to severe the emotional attachment a lot of people had with the ME series in the sequel.  The fan reactions are entirely expected far as I can see.

[Deztyn]

Nozybidaj wrote...
There is also the "promise" that the ME1 LI's were kept out of ME2 for some important role in ME3.  While not at all an entirely satisfatory answer it at least gave some hope to those folks.  If they turn around in ME3 though and the ME2 crew gets brought along and gets just as big a part and just as large an amount of content as the ones that were left out of ME2 it will leave those folks feeling like BW lied to them.  If we see all these ME2 characters in ME3 why was my character left out again?  That's right, no real reason at all.

There's a difference between being a squadmate and love interest and having a role in the actual plot. The ME2 characters may get the former, but they can't have the latter. Liara is guarenteed to live. Either Ash and Kaidan will live and they're functionally interchangeable. None of the ME2 characters can have the significance they can in the next game.

Modifié par Deztyn, 05 mars 2010 - 05:20 .

[Lord Coake]

Deztyn wrote...

There's a difference between being a squadmate and love interest and having a role in the actual plot. The ME2 characters may get the former, but they can't have the latter. Liara is guarenteed to live. Either Ash and Kaidan will live and they're functionally interchangeable. None of the ME2 characters can have the significance they can in the next game.

With the probable exceptions being Garrus and Tali.

[aznsoisauce]

Lord Coake wrote...

Deztyn wrote...

There's a difference between being a squadmate and love interest and having a role in the actual plot. The ME2 characters may get the former, but they can't have the latter. Liara is guarenteed to live. Either Ash and Kaidan will live and they're functionally interchangeable. None of the ME2 characters can have the significance they can in the next game.

With the probable exceptions being Garrus and Tali.

Probable?

I'm very pro Garrus and Tali in ME3, but neither are very significant plot wise after picking them up in the Citadel in ME1. However, that doesn't make them less significant to Shepard.

I don't understand the animosity from some ME1 LI supporters. Ash/Kaidan and Liara are guaranteed for ME3 and those characters have been significant to the plot thus far. So what if they weren't in ME2? That means they can't die. Garrus and Tali can (and the rest of the ME2 squad, of course), so their supporters are justifiably worried about what role they'll play in ME3 if at all.

[MassAffected]

Deztyn wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...
There is also the "promise" that the ME1 LI's were kept out of ME2 for some important role in ME3.  While not at all an entirely satisfatory answer it at least gave some hope to those folks.  If they turn around in ME3 though and the ME2 crew gets brought along and gets just as big a part and just as large an amount of content as the ones that were left out of ME2 it will leave those folks feeling like BW lied to them.  If we see all these ME2 characters in ME3 why was my character left out again?  That's right, no real reason at all.

There's a difference between being a squadmate and love interest and having a role in the actual plot. The ME2 characters may get the former, but they can't have the latter. Liara is guarenteed to live. Either Ash and Kaidan will live and they're functionally interchangeable. None of the ME2 characters can have the significance they can in the next game.

This right here by Deztyn.  So please folks, stop the hate. I can have my Miranda and you guys can have your Liaras and Ashleys and w/e.

[MassAffected]

aznsoisauce wrote...

Lord Coake wrote...

Deztyn wrote...

There's a difference between being a squadmate and love interest and having a role in the actual plot. The ME2 characters may get the former, but they can't have the latter. Liara is guarenteed to live. Either Ash and Kaidan will live and they're functionally interchangeable. None of the ME2 characters can have the significance they can in the next game.

With the probable exceptions being Garrus and Tali.

Probable?

I'm very pro Garrus and Tali in ME3, but neither are very significant plot wise after picking them up in the Citadel in ME1. However, that doesn't make them less significant to Shepard.

I don't understand the animosity from some ME1 LI supporters. Ash/Kaidan and Liara are guaranteed for ME3 and those characters have been significant to the plot thus far. So what if they weren't in ME2? That means they can't die. Garrus and Tali can (and the rest of the ME2 squad, of course), so their supporters are justifiably worried about what role they'll play in ME3 if at all.

Also some very solid points here...well said!

[Deztyn]

Lord Coake wrote...
With the probable exceptions being Garrus and Tali.

Nah. They'll probably be back, but they're not going to be important to the plot. Same as the rest of the ME2 characters. At best having Tali will open up new dialogue options or make things easier when it comes to dealing with the Quarians. But they won't be plot vital. Ash/Kaidan and Liara can be, which is why all the complaining about their diminished roles is a bit premature.


Edit!: OMG! People agreeing on the internet!

Modifié par Deztyn, 05 mars 2010 - 05:35 .

[MassAffected]

Nozybidaj wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

So I've finally finished reading this here fine thread and it seems that the folks that are upset about the ME1 LIs really want the people who are happy with the ME2 LIs to suffer...why not just hope that BioWare will listen to fan feedback and expand on ALL aspects of the game and the characters. Why do we have to be enemies?

Honestly, I don't have anything against the new crew.  Don't like em but I don't hate em either.  I just get riled up when folks like to come in and act all smug about "how great their role was in ME2". <_<

That said, with the sheer number of characters they are going to have to develop for ME3 it will mean resources are going to be spread very thin.  Even in a character focused game like ME2 doing all 10 squad mates left each of them not as fully developed as they should have been.  Now throw on top of that the ME1 crew and the fact that the main focus in ME3 is going to be the final battle and not character development and you get a lot of folks just plain mad about the fact that the ME1 crew is never going to get the kind character focused treatment the ME2 characters got and any attention the characters do get in ME3 is going to be split across this huge cast of characters.

In the end I think we are going to see very little character development in ME3 which means these characters we grew attached to in ME1 are never going to get the proper character development one would expect across a trilogy.  Not to mention how negative and out of character their current incarnations are in the sequel, espcially in the Liara reunion.

There is also the "promise" that the ME1 LI's were kept out of ME2 for some important role in ME3.  While not at all an entirely satisfatory answer it at least gave some hope to those folks.  If they turn around in ME3 though and the ME2 crew gets brought along and gets just as big a part and just as large an amount of content as the ones that were left out of ME2 it will leave those folks feeling like BW lied to them.  If we see all these ME2 characters in ME3 why was my character left out again?  That's right, no real reason at all.

It does at times feel like certain groups need to set themselves up as enemies as they campaign for their chosen character to get the attention they deserve.  Blame BW for that though, not the posters on the forum.  It was BW's choice to do a suicide mission, it was BW's choice to abandon the original LI's in the sequel, it was BW's choice to force these new characters on us, and it was BW's choice to severe the emotional attachment a lot of people had with the ME series in the sequel.  The fan reactions are entirely expected far as I can see.

Errr sorry for the triple post here, but I just want to point out that not all folks feel as you do. Some fans of Liara as an LI are fine with what happened in ME2. BioWare didn't do anything they didn't mean to...it was YOU who chose to see it that way because of a preconcieved notion of how things would have been. I just don't understand the animosity that I've seen. I for one hope you get what you want when ME3 comes out in regards to your favorite characters, but I also hope that BioWare delivers for those of us that loved the ME2 squad members and LIs as well.

[WilliamShatner]

aznsoisauce wrote...

Lord Coake wrote...

Deztyn wrote...

There's a difference between being a squadmate and love interest and having a role in the actual plot. The ME2 characters may get the former, but they can't have the latter. Liara is guarenteed to live. Either Ash and Kaidan will live and they're functionally interchangeable. None of the ME2 characters can have the significance they can in the next game.

With the probable exceptions being Garrus and Tali.

Probable?

I'm very pro Garrus and Tali in ME3, but neither are very significant plot wise after picking them up in the Citadel in ME1. However, that doesn't make them less significant to Shepard.

I don't understand the animosity from some ME1 LI supporters. Ash/Kaidan and Liara are guaranteed for ME3 and those characters have been significant to the plot thus far. So what if they weren't in ME2? That means they can't die. Garrus and Tali can (and the rest of the ME2 squad, of course), so their supporters are justifiably worried about what role they'll play in ME3 if at all.

People waited two years to continue their adventures with these characters and instead they got a kick in the nuts. That's the so what.

As for being "important to plot" - overrated.  I'm sure if you ask any of the characters' fans whether they would want them as a squad mate with lots of dialogue and interaction or a minor role that is "important to plot" they would pick the squad mate.

Also I would say Tali's role will turn out to be pretty damn significant. to the story the quarian/geth plot is played out where people think it's going.

[Nozybidaj]

MassAffected wrote...

Deztyn wrote...

There's a difference between being a squadmate and love interest and having a role in the actual plot. The ME2 characters may get the former, but they can't have the latter. Liara is guarenteed to live. Either Ash and Kaidan will live and they're functionally interchangeable. None of the ME2 characters can have the significance they can in the next game.

This right here by Deztyn.  So please folks, stop the hate. I can have my Miranda and you guys can have your Liaras and Ashleys and w/e.

So these characters were held out of an entire chapter of the trilogy just so Shep can get a few more Prothean mind melds in ME3?  I think that would make me even more upset, especially if Miranda is sitting right there next to us doing her Cerberus thing the whole time.

I posted the quote from Casey earlier "Some of the ME1 characters are back, and recruitable (more than you
might think), and the ones that aren't still play an important role in
the story and will be around for ME3 - which we can't say for the new characters."  I expect them to make good on that.

The formula BW has been using in the ME series so far doesn't leave a lot of room for distinction between "this squad mate is really important"  and "this one isn't".  All the squad mates get similar roles and equal content.  If the ME2 cast gets carried over and gets the same squad mate role and same squad mate content and same romance content the ME1 LI's get what was ever the point of them not being in ME2?

I'm not saying don't bring them across at all if they survived in your play through, but I'll be damned sure raising cane about it if they are all squad members right along side the group that was intentionally left out of ME2 to "save them" for ME3.  Give them Wrex type cameos and some romance dialogue if they were your LI.  Give em a happy ending and call it a day.  That's a hell of a lot more consideration then the ME1 LI's got in ME2.

If the ME1 LI's had to miss an entire chapter of the trilogy though to make sure they could be big players for the finale it better be damn clear that the finale is focued on them and Shepard playing out these "important" roles.  I don't want to see their development and their roles watered down just to accomodate this huge cast of characters who are all potentially dead in my game and mean absolutely nothing to my Shepard and the story he started in ME1.

This all could have been solved so easily by just including the ME1 cast from the get go.  If they had given them the proper treatment and development you would expect from major characters in a trilogy all these angry folks wouldn't even be here on the forum complaining.  We'd all be off happily playing ME2 right now.

[Deztyn]

But who is saying their role in the third game will be minor? It was minor in the second by necessity. They can be plot important and squadmates next time around. Which will put them on even footing with the ME2 characters if they return.

Modifié par Deztyn, 05 mars 2010 - 05:50 .

[Nozybidaj]

WilliamShatner wrote...

People waited two years to continue their adventures with these characters and instead they got a kick in the nuts. That's the so what.

BW:  Hey guys guess what we are making a sequel to ME!!!
Fans:  Woot!  I'll rush right out and buy it.
Fans:  Wait a minute, where is my LI, and who the hell are all these new people?
BW:  Haha, suckers.  See you in two more years.
Fans: .......