329 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabriana]

Like I said before (and probably will have to again ), my PCs don't kill the high dragon. They can't justify it. Whatever for? She didn't do anything to them, she didn't even attack them and the allies after they collectively killed Kolgrim, when he attacks them post gauntlet.

She is protecting her off-spring, and that's all she does in game. I know all the codex entries and whatnot about high dragon 'crimes', but this particular one didn't attack my PC nor her allies.

She (all of them, actually) knew that there might be a possibility the dragon will drop 'kewl loot', perhaps even a scale a la the drakes, but that wasn't enough of a justification to attack her, especially when she makes no move to threaten the group.

The epilogues tell me that there is trouble for the pilgrims because of the high dragon. Well, if people suddenly came trudging into my private spaces, threatening my kids, you bet I'd kick up a big fuss too. The ashes disappear without a trace. They were lost for hundreds of years, and then they are lost again. They are not a 'great hope'. They were a myth, were found, and disappeared again.

If Oghren is in the party (and he usually is in mine) he will mention that there is definitely something more tangible there than the mythical powers of a dead prophet and her ashes.

[Ahisgewaya]

Well, the dragon does attack them. And considering how intelligent I think it is it may or may not have manipulated the cultists into...well.....being cultists.

[Ahisgewaya]

And all I did was blow a horn, and it attacked me.

[Cuddlezarro]

thats your fault the dragon doesnt attack you unless you summon it

infact after the initial encounter where kolgrim gets it to back down it seems content to leave you be (and you dont even ge tthis cutscene if you killed kulgrim while in the dragon caves)

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 06 mars 2010 - 05:29 .

[Ahisgewaya]

Yeah, but I'm saying I'm the victim here! I was just trying out my cool new horn when this dragon attacked me for no reason!

[Cuddlezarro]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Yeah, but I'm saying I'm the victim here! I was just trying out my cool new horn when this dragon attacked me for no reason!

it had every reason to attack you

1)you murdered its children and its mates
2) you woke it up from its beutey sleep and we all know how irritable women can be when you do that

[Ahisgewaya]

1) They attacked me first.
2) It should appreciate good music more. (I play a mean medieval ram horn)

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 06 mars 2010 - 05:41 .

[AndreaDraco]

Every joke aside, there actually many good reasons - from an in-game perspective - to confront the High Dragon. It may do no harm to the Warden and his allies during the Sacred Ashes quest, but it ravaged the lands near the Frostback Mountains, laying waste to the Orlesians borderlands (D. Gaider, The Stolen Throne, p. 382), setting villages on fire and killing flocks and men alike. The High Dragon is almost a blight by herself, and, when she hunts, she's capable of doing a massive damage to people, things, settlements, everything. She's a force to be reckoned with, and - unless of course we try to instil her with a human-like kind of psychology (a mother protecting her children) - the Warden is doing a great favour to Ferelden (and especially the farming lands near the lair) by disposing of such a threat.

[Addai]

Sabriana wrote...

Like I said before (and probably will have to again ), my PCs don't kill the high dragon. They can't justify it. Whatever for? She didn't do anything to them, she didn't even attack them and the allies after they collectively killed Kolgrim, when he attacks them post gauntlet.

I always feel sad when she's finally lying there dead, because she's so beautiful, and dragons are so rare.  But I believe AndreaDraco gave the reasons why I still attack her every game.  It's a good thing that they are rare.

My PC also sees it as training for her crew.  They are going to have to fight a dragon-like creature to end the Blight, too.

[Sabriana]

That's not human-like Andrea, all mothers (human or otherwise) protect their off-spring. Well, usually.

But you have a point. I've not read that yet, and all I could find were codex entries that didn't give much information. If it is this destructive, even a Warden who cares little about lending a helping hand unless it is of use to her/him against the Blight, might fight it.

Even if it is only for practice because of the archdemon.

Good point Addai.

[AndreaDraco]

Sabriana wrote...
That's not human-like Andrea, all mothers (human or otherwise) protect their off-spring. Well, usually.

You're right, of course. I phrased that wrong

[Bratt1204]

Sabriana wrote...

Like I said before (and probably will have to again ), my PCs don't kill the high dragon. They can't justify it. Whatever for? She didn't do anything to them, she didn't even attack them and the allies after they collectively killed Kolgrim, when he attacks them post gauntlet.
She is protecting her off-spring, and that's all she does in game. I know all the codex entries and whatnot about high dragon 'crimes', but this particular one didn't attack my PC nor her allies.
She (all of them, actually) knew that there might be a possibility the dragon will drop 'kewl loot', perhaps even a scale a la the drakes, but that wasn't enough of a justification to attack her, especially when she makes no move to threaten the group.
The epilogues tell me that there is trouble for the pilgrims because of the high dragon. Well, if people suddenly came trudging into my private spaces, threatening my kids, you bet I'd kick up a big fuss too. The ashes disappear without a trace. They were lost for hundreds of years, and then they are lost again. They are not a 'great hope'. They were a myth, were found, and disappeared again.
If Oghren is in the party (and he usually is in mine) he will mention that there is definitely something more tangible there than the mythical powers of a dead prophet and her ashes.

I actually felt REALLY bad after we slew the High Dragon. I saw it just lying there in a pool of blood and became very sad. The only reason I did it was for the achievement, XP and the scales. It does make for some of the best armor for my PC. Thank goodness it is just a fictional creature.

[DianeLyn56]

I've never killed the high dragon or Flemeth. If I can go without killing that's what I usually do. I don't even like intimidating people and usually persuade instead if I have the choice.

[mousestalker]

I look at Andraste, Flemeth, the dragon in the throne room, the dragon in the ancient elven ruins and the rest as practice. The loot and XP are just gravy. My companions need to hone their arch demon slaying skills.

[Ahisgewaya]

Flemeth wouldn't even give me her word that she would not go after Morrigan someday.
So Flemeth dies. She was a child beater anyway. (take Morrigan with you to the Sloth demon's realm and you will see)

I love intimidating people in this game. Especially if I don't like them or their moral stance. It's why I loved terrorizing criminals in Batman: Arkham Asylum

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 06 mars 2010 - 09:06 .

[Sarah1281]

Flemeth wouldn't even give me her word that she would not go after Morrigan someday.

I've heard people say that the fact Flemeth just laughs at you if you bring up Morrigan's claim that Flemeth wants to steal her body as evidence that Morrigan's lying to you - and she could very well be - but if you don't tell her why you're there but don't act like you just want to kill her because she's an abomination (I think it might be the 'Does it matter?' line) then she theorizes that Morrigan found something disturbing in the grimoire so at the very least Morrigan had SOME reason for wanting her mother gone beyond just being power-hungry.

[Addai]

DianeLyn56 wrote...

I've never killed the high dragon or Flemeth. If I can go without killing that's what I usually do. I don't even like intimidating people and usually persuade instead if I have the choice.

For both of them, not killing them when you are powerful enough to do so is taking responsibility for the destruction they're likely to cause others.  I don't like killing either of them- Flemeth saved your life and seems to be the only one in Ferelden with her priorities straight where the Blight is concerned, but she threatens Morrigan and the way she extends her life is abhorrent.  The dragon will inevitably kill many people and lay waste to human lands.  Pacifism has its own cost, or so I see it.

Modifié par Addai67, 06 mars 2010 - 09:20 .

[Ahisgewaya]

Addai67 wrote...
 Pacifism has its own cost, or so I see it.

A cost paid in the blood of children.

[Herr Uhl]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

 Pacifism has its own cost, or so I see it.

A cost paid in the blood of children.

These  children?

[Ahisgewaya]

No, not those ones.

[fcabral7]

I support Wynne as LI in DA2.

[DianeLyn56]

Addai67 wrote...

DianeLyn56 wrote...

I've never killed the high dragon or Flemeth. If I can go without killing that's what I usually do. I don't even like intimidating people and usually persuade instead if I have the choice.

For both of them, not killing them when you are powerful enough to do so is taking responsibility for the destruction they're likely to cause others.  I don't like killing either of them- Flemeth saved your life and seems to be the only one in Ferelden with her priorities straight where the Blight is concerned, but she threatens Morrigan and the way she extends her life is abhorrent.  The dragon will inevitably kill many people and lay waste to human lands.  Pacifism has its own cost, or so I see it.

I thought Morrigan would be able to protect herself from Flemeth when she had the real grimoire, and Flemeth did save the last two grey wardens in Ferelden. I also thought the epilogue said that the high dragon leaves eventually. My responsibility was to stop the blight, which I do, someone else can kill them.

[EccentricSage]

Addai67 wrote...

DianeLyn56 wrote...

I've never killed the high dragon or Flemeth. If I can go without killing that's what I usually do. I don't even like intimidating people and usually persuade instead if I have the choice.

For both of them, not killing them when you are powerful enough to do so is taking responsibility for the destruction they're likely to cause others.  I don't like killing either of them- Flemeth saved your life and seems to be the only one in Ferelden with her priorities straight where the Blight is concerned, but she threatens Morrigan and the way she extends her life is abhorrent.  The dragon will inevitably kill many people and lay waste to human lands.  Pacifism has its own cost, or so I see it.

I dissagree.  That's like saying 'if we don't wipe out the wolves, it's our fault some farmers loose a few sheep', as well as 'if we don't murder this person because of what we THINK they did, surely they will murder people'.  I don't see how a dragon is all that different than a tiger.  they are dangerous and endangered.  The fact that the cultists were able to live alongside it and get along with it makes me think the creature has high enough inteligence to be worked with rather than against.  Like wolves.

With Flemmeth and Morrigan, the problem is that WE don't get to read that damn grimore ourselves, so WE don't know what the truth is.  I want to see the evidence before I condemn someone that saved my life to death.

Even if the story that she seduces men and uses them for human sacrafice to extend her life is true, well, as abhorent as that seems, it's not any different from eating, is it?  It's still someone killing for survival, and I can respect that.  The prey were week and she was strong, so she lives and they die.  That's the law of nature.  To hell with the law of man. 

[Ahisgewaya]

I just have to ask, why is it that when Korgrim blows the horn she's just fine with him, but if I blow it she attacks? Kind of makes it seem like she's complicit in their little cult, eh?

Still, that's not why I killed her. I killed her because she attacked me.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 06 mars 2010 - 10:26 .

[EccentricSage]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

I just have to ask, why is it that when Korgrim blows the horn she's just fine with him, but if I blow it she attacks? Kind of makes it seem like she's complicit in their little cult, eh?

Still, that's not why I killed her. I killed her because she attacked me.

She knows Kolgrim isn't a threat, the cultists care for her babies.  If you summon her, Kolgrim is dead, and you're covered in the blood of the cultists and her babies... it's pretty obvious why she'd atack.  Any smart beast would ether atack or run at that point.  She doesn't know if some of her young are alive or not, and this is her lair... so running away isn't a good option.