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[HoonDing]

My characters just smile and nod when talking to Wynne, and just continue to do what they want regardless of what she says. There's no need to take whatever she says so seriously.

[ejoslin]

CalJones, I love those!



blademaster7, Wynne does apologize for Zevran, as others have told you, quite late (Zevran doesn't switch to love until after the Landsmeet is called). I will give her this, as bad as her initial talk is, her apology is the nicest of them as well.

[krylo]

CalJones wrote...

Noir201 wrote...

Sorry errant i'm fine with her, and must admit, she does grow on you if you give her time.

I found the reverse to be true. Initially I liked her and couldn't understand why she got so much flack. But the more I played with her, the more she began to annoy me.

The problem isn't Wynne, per se, but the lack of sufficient comebacks on the part of the Warden.

Wynne: Blah blah Blight blah blah what if you had to choose between your lover and your duty?
Warden: Well of course I'd do my duty - I'm a Warden.

It'd be nice to quote First Enchanter Irving at her, too.

"Well, Wynne, it's like Irving always used to tell me: We must grasp every moment of levity ESPECIALLY in troubled times."

[Addai]

blademaster7 wrote...

You guys really shouldn't use Wynne's "you're quite taken with each other" speech as an argument.

Did you try romancing Morrigan? Or how about the Ultimate sacrifice when romancing Leliana? Yeah... I did both and I felt terrible for making Wynne apologize to me because she was absolutely right.

With that said, I didn't like her preachy attitute. Nobody does. But at least I respect the fact that she tried to warn me, regardless of whether she really cared about me getting hurt or not(and Leliana for that case).

There are dozens of other preachy lines that can make Wynne look like a terrible charactrer. Use those.

Have you read the Abominable Wynne thread?  It's a long thread.   

The Zevran conversation is the one that's really putrid, which is why, I suspect, you have Zevran fans who are also Wynne haters.  However, even on my male PC romancing Morrigan, I thought she stepped over a line.  Nothing in my PC's relationship with Wynne gives her the right to make very personal judgments to his face on his sex life.  She is in camp because she asked to come along to fight darkspawn.  If he wanted her relationship advice, he'd ask for it.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 mars 2010 - 09:33 .

[Archereon]

Addai: Wynne has a genuine concern that you might put your relationship before your duties as a warden, that's why she makes her judgement.

In the case of Zeveran though, Wynne doesn't hold back, and considering her point of view, I can't blame her (though she is quite a bit too harsh I admit). From what she's seen, Zeveran is a despicable person, who has not only taken to mocking her at every chance he can get, but has seduced one of the two remaining Gray Wardens in Fereldan.

Modifié par Archereon, 04 mars 2010 - 09:36 .

[Cuddlezarro]

Have you read the Abominable Wynne thread? It's a long thread.

with screenshots



I still love it how Gregoir the freaking templar commander is more understanding than Wynn if your a bloodmage

[ejoslin]

Archereon wrote...

Addai: Wynne has a genuine concern that you might put your relationship before your duties as a warden, that's why she makes her judgement.

In the case of Zeveran though, Wynne doesn't hold back, and considering her point of view, I can't blame her (though she is quite a bit too harsh I admit). From what she's seen, Zeveran is a despicable person, who has not only taken to mocking her at every chance he can get, but has seduced one of the two remaining Gray Wardens in Fereldan.

Hmmm, take Zevran to the circle and see exactly how kind he is to her at the start.  He's not bad to her at all -- he tries to reassure her that the warden can keep them safe.  She starts in on him, he responds, absolutely.  But the thing is, she starts in on HIM, not the other way around.  Of course, if you recruit her before him, then she doesn't disapprove of you taking him in, either.

Edit: Actually, it's a funny thing how often in our Zevran love thread that people take him to the circle for the first time, and their initial reaction is surprise at how Zevran treated Wynne there.  I mean, it makes as much as an impression as his nightmare.  He really is that kind.

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 mars 2010 - 09:45 .

[Sabriana]

This is not true. He is very kind to her in the tower. She tries to be her 'savior' self with him and gets nowhere. As far as seducing a GW, so do Leliana, Morrigan, and Alistair. But they are not dealt as harshly with as Zevran. By that time, Zevran is at +71 adore. This is no longer a 'fling', but serious. As you can hear later in her apology (way later), she admits that she was very wrong.

Before offering an opinion on the Zervan romance, try it first. Or try the friendship version.

She has no business budding into the PC's relationships. It's especially vile with Zevran. No matter that all the other romance options 'seduce' the Warden as well.

[mhendon]

I loved wynne. It seemed like she was the only one who understood how difficult this was for the warden. (This is all just opinion, of course, based on how I roleplayed my character.) She did lecture a lot but I eventually welcomed it. She's supposed to be old and wise so I gave her the benefit of the doubt that she actually knew what she was talking about. I really liked the support she offered. I also enjoyed her humor.



" Well, we can't all be Quickwits McSmartypants now can we?"



Some of the dialogue between her and Alistair was hilarious as well. All in all, she was one of my favorite characters. It's all just a matter of perception I suppose.

[Sabriana]

The thing is, Mhendon, I liked her as well on my first play-through. But then her behavior started rubbing me wrong. My first Char was a silly mage, and she more or less 'sat at Wynne's feet". But on subsequent play-througs I analyzed her character and found her severely wanting.

True enough, it does depend on the personal view, and that's why many people put off by her. She assumes rights where she has none, and what's worse, the PC has not many choices of responding. She either sounds like a smart-mouthed brat, or like a groveling idiot. There are truly no middle ways.

[Addai]

Archereon wrote...

Addai: Wynne has a genuine concern that you might put your relationship before your duties as a warden, that's why she makes her judgement.

In the case of Zeveran though, Wynne doesn't hold back, and considering her point of view, I can't blame her (though she is quite a bit too harsh I admit). From what she's seen, Zeveran is a despicable person, who has not only taken to mocking her at every chance he can get, but has seduced one of the two remaining Gray Wardens in Fereldan.

Well, Morrigan put it best:  "Do you see a sign on my forehead that says 'please guide me'?"  Judging by the number of times Wynne mentions wearing out her welcome, she even knows she's overstepping.  Doesn't stop her, of course...

As for Zevran, I believe others have covered it.

[Archereon]

ejoslin wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Addai: Wynne has a genuine concern that you might put your relationship before your duties as a warden, that's why she makes her judgement.

In the case of Zeveran though, Wynne doesn't hold back, and considering her point of view, I can't blame her (though she is quite a bit too harsh I admit). From what she's seen, Zeveran is a despicable person, who has not only taken to mocking her at every chance he can get, but has seduced one of the two remaining Gray Wardens in Fereldan.

Hmmm, take Zevran to the circle and see exactly how kind he is to her at the start.  He's not bad to her at all -- he tries to reassure her that the warden can keep them safe.  She starts in on him, he responds, absolutely.  But the thing is, she starts in on HIM, not the other way around.  Of course, if you recruit her before him, then she doesn't disapprove of you taking him in, either.

Edit: Actually, it's a funny thing how often in our Zevran love thread that people take him to the circle for the first time, and their initial reaction is surprise at how Zevran treated Wynne there.  I mean, it makes as much as an impression as his nightmare.  He really is that kind.

realize that Zevran originally tried to kill (or so we're lead to believe) the Warden.  Wynne has every reason not to like him.

[ejoslin]

Archereon wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Addai: Wynne has a genuine concern that you might put your relationship before your duties as a warden, that's why she makes her judgement.

In the case of Zeveran though, Wynne doesn't hold back, and considering her point of view, I can't blame her (though she is quite a bit too harsh I admit). From what she's seen, Zeveran is a despicable person, who has not only taken to mocking her at every chance he can get, but has seduced one of the two remaining Gray Wardens in Fereldan.

Hmmm, take Zevran to the circle and see exactly how kind he is to her at the start.  He's not bad to her at all -- he tries to reassure her that the warden can keep them safe.  She starts in on him, he responds, absolutely.  But the thing is, she starts in on HIM, not the other way around.  Of course, if you recruit her before him, then she doesn't disapprove of you taking him in, either.

Edit: Actually, it's a funny thing how often in our Zevran love thread that people take him to the circle for the first time, and their initial reaction is surprise at how Zevran treated Wynne there.  I mean, it makes as much as an impression as his nightmare.  He really is that kind.

realize that Zevran originally tried to kill (or so we're lead to believe) the Warden.  Wynne has every reason not to like him.

She does not disapprove of taking him into the party -- at all.  She says nothing at all about it whatsoever, and you get no approval drop so what you're saying is based on nothing indicated in the game.  If you recruit him before her, again, he is nothing but kind to her.

[Chasseresse]

I don't HATE Wynne, but after numerous play throughs, I am sick of her and her dialogue. Yes, I could just ESC through everything, pick the "good" responses and not worry about it but then what would be the point. No one likes being preached to incessantly, no one likes having most of their decisions questioned (when alternate suggestions aren't even given!), and no one likes to hear that their love interest is unacceptable, especially at a very tense and dangerous point in one's life that they may not even live through.



Maybe this is a product of playing the game too much (I can't help it! I'm addicted! lol) and people aren't supposed to get to the point where they dislike Wynne from overexposure, hehe. Or maybe it has to do with a lot of us not appreciating people IRL that are like Wynne, so why would we choose to play with the game version of a person type we would avoid?

[Nonvita]

Archereon wrote...

realize that Zevran originally tried to kill (or so we're lead to believe) the Warden.  Wynne has every reason not to like him.

Even Alistair will back down and say he'll give him a chance if the Warden says he/she trusts Zevran. Considering what the other characters have all done, Zevran is not really worse than any of them. Once again it just comes down to Wynne's view of the world always being right. Regardless of who is actually good/bad/trustworthy/untrustworthy, her judgments must be the ultimate truth!

And really, is it so hard to admit that she's hypocritical and extremely stuck in her ways? You really can like her despite this, but ignoring it doesn't make it not be there. It's nice that your character never did anything she disagreed with, but for those who play perfectly decent characters yet still have Wynne berating their actions, her faults are plainly clear.

[Sabriana]

I have nothing to add to Nonvita's post, just showing my support.
I also agree with Chasseresse's first paragraph. Unless the PC romances Zevran she might be tolerable. But none of my girls  agree. Not at that point. Wynne assumes rights that she doesn't have, and clearly oversteps her boundaries.

Modifié par Sabriana, 04 mars 2010 - 10:20 .

[Archereon]

She is extremely sunk in her ways, and is sometimes a hypocrite (though she doesn't even know it most of the time), but that's her primary character flaw. It doesn't make her evil or even a mean person like some people her argue.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Because she thinks herself wise, but yet not once did I go "hmmm, that's deep" when I listened to her talking. Flemeth's laugh has more wisdom in it than Wynne's entire dialogue options. In fact out of all companions, Wynne offers the least amount of wisdom.

[Addai]

Compare Wynne's interactions with the PC to Riordan's. Riordan has FAR more ground on which to counsel you on what it means to be a Grey Warden. Infinitely more. But rather than play 21 Questions about your sex life, he comments "you seem to have picked up the important things on your own" and "you're doing a pretty good job of raising an army yourself." Of course, many of us end up ignoring Riordan's advice about Loghain anyway, but I don't know many people that resent him for giving it.

[Sabriana]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Because she thinks herself wise, but yet not once did I go "hmmm, that's deep" when I listened to her talking. Flemeth's laugh has more wisdom in it than Wynne's entire dialogue options. In fact out of all companions, Wynne offers the least amount of wisdom.

I do love your way of putting things, Knight. I miss you in talks. Seriously.

[Nonvita]

Hm, I haven't seen anyone call her evil or mean. I think the people saying she's hypocritical all understand the circumstances of *why* she is how she is quite well. But they see her flaws and dislike her, while others may see her flaws and like her more. I personally like that she's a flawed character, as it makes her much more realistic and interesting to me.

The people I worry about are those who only see her good side and assume others are terrible people for disliking her. There are genuine reasons to like her, and just as genuine of reasons to dislike her. That's why she's so great.


Edit: I do agree with Knight's post though!

Modifié par Nonvita, 04 mars 2010 - 10:28 .

[Archereon]

I just don't understand why people get so pissed off about someone who's overly patronizing, its really a common enough flaw in real life that I'm used to it.

[Reaverwind]

CalJones wrote...

Noir201 wrote...

Sorry errant i'm fine with her, and must admit, she does grow on you if you give her time.

I found the reverse to be true. Initially I liked her and couldn't understand why she got so much flack. But the more I played with her, the more she began to annoy me.

The problem isn't Wynne, per se, but the lack of sufficient comebacks on the part of the Warden.

Wynne: Blah blah Blight blah blah what if you had to choose between your lover and your duty?
Warden: Well of course I'd do my duty - I'm a Warden.

Wynne: Aneirin thinks you should be First Enchanter. What a great idea!
Warden: I'm a Warden now.
Wynne: Think about it, though.
Warden: There's nothing to think about. I'm a Warden. End of story.
Wynne: But...
Warden: C'mon, Wynne - you've spent every second lecturing me about my duties as a Warden. Now you're suggesting I give them up to become First Enchanter? I'm a Warden. W-A-R-D-E-N. I take my duties very seriously, just as you told me to. Now you're suggesting I abandon them? Stop being such a bloody hypocrite.

Exactly. I only wish the player responses were worded that well. Unfortunately, the devs must have allowed a six-year old to write some of them.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sabriana wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Because she thinks herself wise, but yet not once did I go "hmmm, that's deep" when I listened to her talking. Flemeth's laugh has more wisdom in it than Wynne's entire dialogue options. In fact out of all companions, Wynne offers the least amount of wisdom.

I do love your way of putting things, Knight. I miss you in talks. Seriously.

Thank you
I think I will be back at full force when Awakening is released

[ejoslin]

Archereon wrote...

I just don't understand why people get so pissed off about someone who's overly patronizing, its really a common enough flaw in real life that I'm used to it.

Never took her to the gauntlet on a city elf female I see . . .