83 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

Arde5643 wrote...

I find avenger the ****tiest crap POS weapon in the game - even compared to the shuriken machine pistol.

I don't mind it for the early stages, but it yes, it is a pile of turds. You can tell it was meant to be a Soldier weapon, as it lacks firepower by itself outside of class bonii or ammo powers, and clearly intended to defer to a Shotgun for short range and Assault Rifle for long range.

But then again, Soldiers switch to the Vindicator as soon as they get it, and everyone else picks ARs to use something else, don't they?

I give them to Legion, Garrus and Zaeed, though. All those guys get Sniper Rifles and the Avenger is pretty much the best weapon at short range they have access too.

[Atmosfear3]

WillieStyle wrote...

In these sort of threads, people often write, "well I finished [difficult mission] easily on Insanity with [X weapon] therefore it must be good."
That isn't evidence that [X weapon] is good. It's evidence that you are good.
If you had used [Y weapon] instead, you'd have completed [difficult mission] even more easily (faster).

^

themaxzero wrote...

You also get people like Atmosphere3 who say "I used this weapon and didn't like it so it sucks."

I like the GPR because it's an accurate Avenger.

You want me to elaborate? Sure.

The GPR is a piece of junk due to several reasons.

1) Low damage. In actual usage, this thing kills slower than the avenger due to its variable RoF and poor armor penetration.  The Avenger is probably more efficient at killing than this gun.

2) The enhanced shield/barrier modifiers does not warrant this weapon as effective since its such a minimal increase and having a weak armor modifier makes this weapon next to useless against high armor targets.  You would do more damage spitting at them than with the GPR.

This weapon is nothing more than a novelty item.   Rev > Vind > Aven/Collector > GPR

[cruc1al]

JaegerBane wrote...
But then again, Soldiers switch to the Vindicator as soon as they get it, and everyone else picks ARs to use something else, don't they?

I give them to Legion, Garrus and Zaeed, though. All those guys get Sniper Rifles and the Avenger is pretty much the best weapon at short range they have access too.

Guys I'm telling you, the Vindicator is much better than Avenger at close range. Nevermind the crappy burst-fire setting, it still does much more DPS. Try it out for yourself. Or I can make a video.

On squadmates like Garrus, even the Viper probably does more damage at close range than the Avenger, since squadmates don't seem to have problems with the zoom at close range.

Modifié par cruc1al, 06 mars 2010 - 06:09 .

[Athenau]

Yeah, there's no situation where the Vindicator is worse than either the GPR or Avenger. It makes both those weapons obsolete.

[Hader102]

Once the Geth Pulse Rifle is fuilly upgraded (with the accuracy and damage research for ARs being the best) and also given incindiery ammo, it is actually pretty damn good. Definitely a good choice for my AR wielding non-soldier characters who cannot get the Revenant MG.

[Comrade Bork]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

In these sort of threads, people often write, "well I finished [difficult mission] easily on Insanity with [X weapon] therefore it must be good."
That isn't evidence that [X weapon] is good. It's evidence that you are good.
If you had used [Y weapon] instead, you'd have completed [difficult mission] even more easily (faster).

^

themaxzero wrote...

You also get people like Atmosphere3 who say "I used this weapon and didn't like it so it sucks."

I like the GPR because it's an accurate Avenger.

You want me to elaborate? Sure.

The GPR is a piece of junk due to several reasons.

1) Low damage. In actual usage, this thing kills slower than the avenger due to its variable RoF and poor armor penetration.  The Avenger is probably more efficient at killing than this gun.

2) The enhanced shield/barrier modifiers does not warrant this weapon as effective since its such a minimal increase and having a weak armor modifier makes this weapon next to useless against high armor targets.  You would do more damage spitting at them than with the GPR.

This weapon is nothing more than a novelty item.   Rev > Vind > Aven/Collector > GPR

I believe that what makes a weapon is when someone uses it themselves. You may find the GPR terrible, but it is one of my favorite guns. I use it much more than the Avenger and Vindicator, and I found it to be superior for my character. You might have a completely different playstyle, and find the Avenger/Vindicator better. This is the same reason I never look up guides or buy guidebooks is because usually the strategies don't fit my playstyle at all.

-Comrade Bork


EDIT: As someone just posted, Inferno Ammo makes the GPR a beast, unlike when I used it on the Avenger.

Modifié par Comrade Bork, 06 mars 2010 - 06:39 .

[Arde5643]

cruc1al wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...
But then again, Soldiers switch to the Vindicator as soon as they get it, and everyone else picks ARs to use something else, don't they?

I give them to Legion, Garrus and Zaeed, though. All those guys get Sniper Rifles and the Avenger is pretty much the best weapon at short range they have access too.

Guys I'm telling you, the Vindicator is much better than Avenger at close range. Nevermind the crappy burst-fire setting, it still does much more DPS. Try it out for yourself. Or I can make a video.

On squadmates like Garrus, even the Viper probably does more damage at close range than the Avenger, since squadmates don't seem to have problems with the zoom at close range.

No need to convince me of vindicator as the ultimate AR for non-soldier classes.

heck, if the vindicator has double the amount of ammo it has now,  I'd take it over revenant every single day as a soldier. The only plus the revenant has over the vindicator is the huge ammo size.

Everything else, vindicator does it better - it's pretty much an assault rifle spliced with the viper. Very accurate and very strong at long range, doesn't even need ironsight at medium range for headshots bursts, and still very deadly at close range due to its base damage.
heck, it's even better than the viper for non-soldier classes just due to its versatility and strength.

EDIT: Sorry for the thread derailment.

Modifié par Arde5643, 06 mars 2010 - 10:27 .

[Athenau]

Everything else, vindicator does it better - it's pretty much an assault rifle spliced with the viper. Very accurate and very strong at long range, doesn't even need ironsight at medium range for headshots bursts, and still very deadly at close range due to its base damage.

The Revenant is much better in close range fights where accuracy doesn't matter. It has higher raw dps (significantly so when you consider magazine size) and the Vindicator really fails at locking down enemies since it isn't full auto. Revenant is extremely good at stunlocking enemies since it fires almost twice as fast and has twice the chance of triggering a stun animation per shot (if coalesced.ini is correct).

[sinosleep]

Arde5643 wrote...
No need to convince me of vindicator as the ultimate AR for non-soldier classes.

I actually feel quite the opposite. I tried the vindicator on my engineer and sentinel and felt both were better off sticking with the tempest for most fights and taking the sniper rifle for utility. On my soldier the vindicator combined with AR is awesome, but on my sentinel and engineer I found the ammo count, and burst fire to be counter productive. With a soldier and AR you can stretch that ammo out via head shots and don't really need the stagger due to the slowdown, but on other classes it really hurts. 

[Arde5643]

Have you tried using shockwave in combo with vindicator as an adept or vanguard?

You can easily take out 1-2 enemies at long range when using shockwave -> vindicator headshot bursts. That's why I prefer vindicator than viper for my shockwave wielding vanguard/adept.

Plus you already know how powerful singularity stun lock and vindicator can be for the adept.



As an engineer, I use the vindicator at long range when using drone, or at middle range when using cyro, incinerate or AI hack/dominate.

[sinosleep]

If I'm going to fight from long range I'd rather have a weapon that's specialized for it like the viper. If I'm going to fight from medium to short I'd rather be able to spray. So the vindicator is out on both counts for me. On a vanguard, I'm never in medium range so it's shotgun for short range and viper for long range again. For me, vindicator, and assault rifles in general are strictly soldier weapons.

[Arde5643]

i find the viper's aiming too slow to use in combo with shockwave.



I guess, if you don't use shockwave, the vindicator is probably too limited of use for a vanguard.

[cruc1al]

I did a short-range damage comparison of assault rifles:
http://social.biowar...3/index/1595869

The geth pulse rifle doesn't surprise. And the vindicator is almost as good as the Revenant.

Modifié par cruc1al, 06 mars 2010 - 11:09 .

[Arde5643]

Woo! Thanks for the video evidence - it does show vindicator as the 2nd best AR and can be equally as good as revenant if not for the ammo size.

[sinosleep]

I think that test would be better with at least the accuracy upgrade. While the vindicator doesn't need it to land all bullets in a burst, the revenant suffers from not having it.

[Arde5643]

He did say it's the best close range assault rifle though.

[sinosleep]

Yeah, I'm just saying it could have made the gap bigger if more bullets were landing due to better accuracy. It wouldn't make much difference on the vindicator since it's an extremely accurate weapon even without it, but the difference between an upgraded LMG and one that isn't is actually noticeable.

Modifié par sinosleep, 06 mars 2010 - 11:51 .

[SmilingMirror]

The avenger would get better with an accuracy grade as well, its supposed to have high recoil but low acc.

Its possible that the Avenger destroyed health slightly faster because of this supposed recoil stat, assuming they have the same damage output.

Still, I don't think the difference of these upgrades will make any gun over a second better, so this was a pretty accurate test. I''m glad someone did the work to test it.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 06 mars 2010 - 11:43 .

[Athenau]

The Revenant is the only gun that'll benefit from the acc upgrade in that test, as it makes the difference between a few shots missing and all of them hitting at that range. I don't even bother using the Revenant before the upgrade.

[HTTP 404]

geth rifle is obviously good against the geth. it rips through them quickly. I like to have Zaeed with disrupter ammo and geth rifle even against eclipse. He can take care of shields while I do the dirty work.

[cruc1al]

EA_BiowareAccount wrote...

geth rifle is obviously good against the geth. it rips through them quickly. I like to have Zaeed with disrupter ammo and geth rifle even against eclipse. He can take care of shields while I do the dirty work.

Take a look at the video/post I linked earlier - the Geth Pulse Rifle isn't any better against geth than the Avenger, and the Vindicator is much better than both.

[Spyndel]

cruc1al wrote...

Take a look at the video/post I linked earlier - the Geth Pulse Rifle isn't any better against geth than the Avenger, and the Vindicator is much better than both.

At least until the Vindicator runs out of ammo, and the other two rifles are still going strong.  DPS is not the only measure of a weapon's appeal, not that I'm recommending the GPR or anything.

I did get good use out of the GPR for my adept playthough though, as a shield shredder in lieu of wasting a slot on Energy Drain. Like other's, I don't think its as bad as people make it out to be...the accuracy and ammo well are really nice...just not quite nice enough to recommend over other options.

[HTTP 404]

cruc1al wrote...

EA_BiowareAccount wrote...

geth rifle is obviously good against the geth. it rips through them quickly. I like to have Zaeed with disrupter ammo and geth rifle even against eclipse. He can take care of shields while I do the dirty work.

Take a look at the video/post I linked earlier - the Geth Pulse Rifle isn't any better against geth than the Avenger, and the Vindicator is much better than both.

interesting. i like the aesthetic look and feel of geth rifle though.  I also like using geth rifle against geth, serves them right.  But i see what you're saying.  Still doesnt change my opinion which is just an opinion.  good post though

[cruc1al]

Spyndel wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

Take a look at the video/post I linked earlier - the Geth Pulse Rifle isn't any better against geth than the Avenger, and the Vindicator is much better than both.

At least until the Vindicator runs out of ammo, and the other two rifles are still going strong.  DPS is not the only measure of a weapon's appeal, not that I'm recommending the GPR or anything.

Well yeah, that's the only downside of Vindicator - you only get 4 extra clips. With the GPR you get 10.

[sinosleep]

The tempest SMG takes down geth quicker than the GPR does.