86 réponses à ce sujet

[Mister_Tez]

KnotEngaged wrote...

Pretty simple fix for the "ME2 characters can't play a big role" argument. If they die in your play through you don't get them on your squad in ME3. Kind of like if you don't recruit Legion, Tali, Thane, Samara, Morinth, or Zaeed in ME2 you simply don't have them on your squad and can't use them. Problem solved.

Yeah, that's how I see it (or at least hope it will be done).

If they died in ME2, they're not available in ME3.

If they survived ME2, then they're available in ME3 (except perhaps some easy write-outs to thin the numbers a bit... e.g. Samara returns to being a Justicar, Zaaed takes his money & leaves, Thane finally dies).


Add in Liara plus Ashley/Kaiden, & a few new squadmates, & you have a team. No need for replacements for each ME2 character who died - if they're dead, they're not replaced, you just have fewer people in your team.

For those muppets who somehow got most of their team killed (minimum no. of ME2 survivors for Shep to still survive too is two), they're stuck with just Liara + Ashley/Kaiden + the few new ones + a couple of ME2 survivors. For those who kept their whole ME2 team alive, they'll have all that plus the returning team (maybe minus a few to cut it down a bit as above). Those in between, have in between.

As ME3 is the end of the trilogy, & focussing on concluding the story, it doesn't matter that none of the ME2 team can have a particularly big role in ME3's story due to the fact they may have been killed - they don't need a big role in the story, they're just squadmates (think back to ME1, only Liara was really vital for the story, & only for decoding the visions so you knew about Ilos). So having it so they don't play a major role in ME3's story should make it easier to carry over whichever ones survived, as it won't have any major consequence to the story.

Bringing back the ME2 team wouldn't have to involve loads of extra dialogue compared to ME2, just the normal & fairly generic in-mission dialogue for each character plus their post-mission chat etc. And as most of the team will have already been recruited & made loyal, the only recruitment & loyalty missions possible needed would be for the ME1 returnees plus the few new people, so far less unique dialogue needed for those than ME2 had.

Given that ME2 was all about team-building & character development, I think it would be a big slap in the face if you were not able to keep your ME2 team with you for the final part of the trilogy. If they don't come back, why was ME2 so focussed on them, if they don't come back, why bother trying to keep them alive in the suicide mission.

[Nozybidaj]

KnotEngaged wrote...

Bitter much?

Nah, whatever gave you that idea?   ......  

[BlackwindTheCommander]

Personally I think who returns in ME3 wil come down to 2 factors...



A) Who is still alive- Being dead sure can put a damper on you squadding abilities.



Who is loyal to Shep by the end of ME2. If they aren't loyal to you, thier less likely to continue to travel with you. This can affect all ME1 characters as well, seeing as each had an important event related to them. (examples. Liara's side mission, keeping Wrex alive, who survived Virmire/how you acted towards Cerberus in the end)



If you have the loyalties of all members of both ME2 and ME1 you will have a fighting team to be reckoned with.



This isn't to say there wont be new recruits along the way *cough, cough* Gianna, Shiala and... Conrad? *cough* But if you're going into all out war, you want a team large enough to do some real damage.

[AdamBoozer]

Dano32839 wrote...

The bad news about Mass Effect 3 is that NONE of the main characters in Mass 2 will play a major roll in Mass 3.

The reason for this will be that for some player a particular character would have died.

And Bioware can not make a big story line for characters that may be dead.



As for Shepard, If he died.  They will probably have another main charactor to replace him/her.

So instead of a male/female voice over they will have two of each.
Two for male/female Shepard...and two for "NEW GUY" male/female.



I don't see any other way around it.

Do you?
Thanks for listening.

Uh................................ IF YOU DIED IN ME 2 THATS THE END OF THE GAME FOR THAT SHEPARD. They have already said that a million times for gods sake. They will work some bioware magic.

[shinobi602]

[falco117]

BigBody26 wrote...

If I can't go through the entire ME trilogy with Garrus by my side I will be very disappointed.

I completely agree, Garrus is my main man, my partner in crime, my brother from another mother, the only character whos quest dialogue i dint skip by rapidly pressing space

[Nozybidaj]

shinobi602 wrote...

Hmmm?  Posting random pictures to bump the post count? 

When did this become a Tali/Miranda thread?

[Multifarious Algorithm]

The point that it would be a slap in the face to redux the team recruitment element of ME2 is a good one. Team recruitment and loyalty in ME2 works because it's quite a different dynamic and well-implemented, but importantly you learn about these characters. Everything about ME2's ending suggests this is your team with which you're going to go after the Reapers. Amongst other things, it would require a lot of twisting of the plot to get rid of every single one of them.
It would not be nearly as fun to have the sequel emulate the exact same model - you'd like to do something bigger with it in ME3. Personally I'm hoping for a big political component - finding members of the various governments who can provide support for you in one way or another.

Modifié par Multifarious Algorithm, 05 mars 2010 - 02:39 .

[contown]

I'd like to think bioware learned their lesson after seeing the fan backlash when they shafted the ME1 cast. I really think they're smart enough to not make the same mistake again.

[TheLostGenius]

Ramikadyc wrote...

Mass Effect 2 had the disadvantage of being the middle part of the trilogy, therefore the developers could not liberally create such extreme branching storylines simply because it would be so difficult to fully realize their continuations into Mass Effect 3, since everyone makes their own unique choices and those choices must carry over. Mass Effect 3, however, has the huge advantage of being the final installment of the trilogy, therefore allowing the developer to pull out all of the stops, and create crazy branching choices simply because they won't need to follow up with them in a sequel.

Those are my opinions, at least. I personally expect Mass Effect 3's story to be 10-times more individually unique than Mass Effect 2's was for these reasons.

Why do you think ME3 will be the last game in the series? They could easily stretch it five games. Millions of people can't be wrong.

[Tinnic]

Well I for one will not be playing ME3 if Bioware does not reward me getting the "no one left behind" achievement. Indeed, the presence of that achievement alone makes me think that Bioware is not going to screw over all of us who have the braincells to keep our squad alive (honestly, its not like its hard). I think all they are going to do is have a "default" storyline for new player where everybody died in the Suicide mission except for Joker. Anybody who imports Shepard will have who ever survived (you can sacrifice a few and still have a pretty decent team) and the option to recruit the Kaiden/Ash and Liara.

[McMaze]

So some people really believe ME 3 will start with 12 squadmembers+Liara & Ashley/Kaidan+possibly new squadmembers, who all have tons of dialog, meaningful roles in the story and interact with eachother ?

[ODST 3]

Shows how much you know about the bad news if you still think dead Shepards get to continue into ME3...

[tropicalwave]

What I really, really hope they do is if you lost someone there is a whole set of quests you don't get instead of filling someone in for that spot, unlike how they handled the death for Kaiden/Ash or Wrex. I don't know if they will since story will take precedence over our choices (as seen so far to this point).



I would also like to see anyone that you didn't get loyalty for that survived that they leave. Like on one play through I did not get Zaeed's loyalty but her still survived. He should just pack up and leave. That would make me happy.



And we already know that the ME1 LI will come back in ME3 (that is the whole reason we couldn't recruit them. They wanted no way that they could die in ME2) There are some good reasons for some of the team to leave as well, (Like Samara if you are Ren Shep or Thane dying (that would be sad)) Maybe some more hard choices to make about life and death with teammates

[Tinnic]

McMaze wrote...

So some people really believe ME 3 will start with 12 squadmembers+Liara & Ashley/Kaidan+possibly new squadmembers, who all have tons of dialog, meaningful roles in the story and interact with eachother ?

Everybody doesn't have to be present. If ME3 takes place a year from ME2, that automatically means no Thane - since he said he had about a year to live. Samara can be taken out as "she returned to Asari space". Mordin was only there for collectors, so he can leave to do whatever he does. So that's three down already.

It doesn't have to be Liara & Ashley/Kaiden. I suspect it is most likely going to be whoever was your love interest in ME1 or they can be the people who can recruit if you start freash.

So what I am saying is that I don't think you will get a lot of "new squad members". Maybe two and only if you start a new character. If you import Shepard then you will only get to recruit Liara and/or Kaiden and they might be linked to your romance choices in ME1. So if people are expecting a lot of new squad members, they will be disappointed. Also, if you got most of your team killed in ME2, then you will pay the price for it ME3 because you will have a lot less choices of squad.

Seems fair to me. If you intentionally or unintentionally got your people killed = you play ME3 with a disadvantage. If you start fresh in ME3, the default story might have you go recruit Shepard's old squad from both ME1 and ME2. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you get no new squad members in ME3.

[petipas1414]

Bioware is already getting bashed on everyones cameo BUT Wrexs'. Unless they're blind, then they won't have anyone of these characters leave. "EVERYONE LOVES MORDIN, LETS KILL HIM" , even EA people are smarter than that.



Additionally, the TaliBan would be PISSED.

[jlb524]

From ME2, I just want Jack back. She's survived all my playthroughs!!



And Thane b/c I want his jacket.

[Nozybidaj]

Even if they do bring them back how would they do it as anything but a generic "red shirt" role? They can't have any sort of "integral" part in the story or else people who don't have that particular squad member alive wouldn't be able to play ME3 (or at least finish it). I also don't think BW is going to short change your squad selection either, not very friendly to new and returning players alike.



I think the idea that they will be in positions like Wrex is more applicable. Tali is your contact to the Quarians if she is alive, if not its Reegar. If you left Cerberus and Miranda lived she is now the one running Cerberus under your lead, not TIM's. If you stayed with Cerberus she is back to doing whatever TIM has in store for her. Grunt if he is alive is back repopulating the Krogan homeworld one female at a time (maybe two at a time). If he's not alive then, well, he's not alive. Etc., etc.



That way they can account for almost all the permutations of the outcomes of the suicide mission fairly easily without risking folks not being able to "complete" ME3 if they had anything but a "everyone survived" ending. I know for a fact the import I am going to use for ME3 is going to have me start with a fairly empty ship. I'm sure lots of other people will be the same whether intentionally or not.

[TheLostGenius]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Even if they do bring them back how would they do it as anything but a generic "red shirt" role? They can't have any sort of "integral" part in the story or else people who don't have that particular squad member alive wouldn't be able to play ME3 (or at least finish it). I also don't think BW is going to short change your squad selection either, not very friendly to new and returning players alike.

I think the idea that they will be in positions like Wrex is more applicable. Tali is your contact to the Quarians if she is alive, if not its Reegar. If you left Cerberus and Miranda lived she is now the one running Cerberus under your lead, not TIM's. If you stayed with Cerberus she is back to doing whatever TIM has in store for her. Grunt if he is alive is back repopulating the Krogan homeworld one female at a time (maybe two at a time). If he's not alive then, well, he's not alive. Etc., etc.

That way they can account for almost all the permutations of the outcomes of the suicide mission fairly easily without risking folks not being able to "complete" ME3 if they had anything but a "everyone survived" ending. I know for a fact the import I am going to use for ME3 is going to have me start with a fairly empty ship. I'm sure lots of other people will be the same whether intentionally or not.

Reegar can die. If Tali isn't playable she will be an admirable, in place of her father. I thought the game's plot setup her up for that.

[adembroski11]

As long as Tali and Garrus stick around, I'm happy. I really would like Wrex back more than anything. Also, a chance to patch things up and get back with Ash would be cool.

(for the record, I picked Tali... great gal:P)

Modifié par adembroski11, 05 mars 2010 - 08:48 .

[Pannamaslo]

Dano32839 wrote...

The bad news about Mass Effect 3 is that NONE of the main characters in Mass 2 will play a major roll in Mass 3.

The reason for this will be that for some player a particular character would have died.

And Bioware can not make a big story line for characters that may be dead.



As for Shepard, If he died.  They will probably have another main charactor to replace him/her.

So instead of a male/female voice over they will have two of each.
Two for male/female Shepard...and two for "NEW GUY" male/female.



I don't see any other way around it.

Do you?
Thanks for listening.

We have no idea what BW will do with it.  I doubt they will ditch all the new squadmates, it would be a waste of good, well-developed characters.

Modifié par Pannamaslo, 05 mars 2010 - 09:10 .

[Collider]

I hate how people are amusing that Bioware can't pull all off most or all squad mates returning. Making the game itself was a huge endeavor, having squad mates return isn't an astronomical task in context of how much quality content Bioware has already put out.

Basically, the matter of squad mates is binary. Either they did survive, or they didn't.

If they survived, they are a squad mate.
If they didn't survive, they may be replaced by an NPC. For example, if Wrex didn't survive, another krogan took his place, but was not a squad mate.

Bioware already doubled the squad mate count from ME1 to ME2, without sacrificing character interaction. They can go further.

A lot of people are saying that the squad mate survival makes a logistal nightmare. However, they are forgetting the fact that so many things are carried from ME1 to ME2 and presumably ME3. If returning squad mates is a logistical nightmare, then Bioware has already had to deal with the logistical nightmares. This time, however, they no longer have to worry about importing ME3 to ME4. They can have all sorts of wild entangling storyline branches without worrying about how to import it to another game. I don't know how many times I've posted this. I think people are severely underestimating Bioware's capacity.

As to the matter of import roles for these squad mates. This is a non issue. Squad mates don't have to be on their own completely integral. We've seen this with Garrus, Tali, Legion, Samara...basically everyone except for Miranda and Mordin, who took care of the Lazarus Project and thwarted seeker swarms respectively. In ME3 it has been revealed that Ashley/Kaidan and Liara are going to have big roles, so there you have it. Ash/Kaidan and Liara are going to be the star players, and along with possibly some new squad mates. Surviving squad mates from ME2 will augment and supplement the plot.

If I had to say, this is the likely the absolute minimum for returning squad mate.s

Ashley/Kaidan - Love interests, Bioware has already made it clear they're returning.
Liara - Love interest, Bioware has already made it clear she's returning.
Garrus - Love interest and fan favorite. Has been with Shepard since ME1.
Tali - Love interest and fan favorite. Has been with Shepard since ME1.
Miranda - Assumably the most popular love interest in ME2. Also the least likely to die in the suicide mission.
Wrex - Fan favorite. I also feel like his story hasnt been completed. yet.

[Massadonious1]

Nozybidaj wrote...
Hmmm? Posting random pictures to bump the post count?

Modifié par Massadonious1, 05 mars 2010 - 09:20 .