268 réponses à ce sujet

[redguppie]

The Angry One wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Do you know for a fact that it keeps him alive?  It is strategically better to go up the ramp ro the right and across the catwalk IMO.  That is also what he suggests BTW.  You tell him to stand down and I think it doesn't matter how defeat the Collosus.

Every time I've gone up the ramp he dies, every time I go to the left he lives.
Might be some variables like getting a Colossus beam in the face at the wrong time, but I believe going through the left (stopping a bit to kill the Geth in the middle first) increases his chance to survive a lot.
It's doesn't change anything but hey it's cooler when Kal has your back.

From what I've seen it simply matters how fast you get to the Colossus, 

[Onyx Jaguar]

The Angry One wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Do you know for a fact that it keeps him alive?  It is strategically better to go up the ramp ro the right and across the catwalk IMO.  That is also what he suggests BTW.  You tell him to stand down and I think it doesn't matter how defeat the Collosus.

Every time I've gone up the ramp he dies, every time I go to the left he lives.
Might be some variables like getting a Colossus beam in the face at the wrong time, but I believe going through the left (stopping a bit to kill the Geth in the middle first) increases his chance to survive a lot.
It's doesn't change anything but hey it's cooler when Kal has your back.

The adept playthrough I had on Hardcore/Renegade somehow had him live when I chose him to fire for support.  I am unsure what I did exactly he did have his downed scream but he showed up alive anyway.  Could have been a bug or it could have been that I took out most of the Geth.  Maybe one of the other factors mentioned.

[Darth Drago]

I just cant see doing it, even playing as a renegade it just doesn’t feel right to betray Tali.

Besides she packs a shotgun, knows how to use it and can easily bypass the security on my cabin door to shoot me while I sleep.

[Zulu_DFA]

Darth Drago wrote...


I just cant see doing it, even playing as a renegade it just doesn’t feel right to betray Tali.

Besides she packs a shotgun, knows how to use it and can easily bypass the security on my cabin door to shoot me while I sleep.

When I sleep, I have Legion guarding the corridor connecting the cabin to the elevator.

[Kumekerion]

The Angry One wrote...

Akrylik wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Akrylik wrote...

in a way it's kinda like being a tattle tale, nobody likes a tattle tale, end of story.

But Shep tattled on the Reapers.

mmm, well there's the diff between tattling your friends to be a douche, and tattling on douches for not being your friend.

Sovereign just wanted to give us cake!
That's why he was opening the Citadel relay, to have tons of delicious and moist cake delivered!

Don't do it, the Cake is a Lie!

[BillMcD]

That is... disturbing... I will never understand why people like doing "evil" runs of anything, especially the stupid senseless kind...



but then again I have a hard time shooting Conrad Verner in the foot. That and my Shepard is over-protective of his crew because he's a colonist-survivor who cannot stand to let anyone else die under his command. You just don't pull this kind of crap on people.

[Neria Rose]

BillMcD wrote...

That is... disturbing... I will never understand why people like doing "evil" runs of anything, especially the stupid senseless kind...

Curiosity. I still haven't done a mostly pure Renegade run yet, but I'll get there eventually just to see what happens. Certainly won't be my 'canon' run, but I'd like to see a few things.

Exception here is KOTOR, of course, where nearly all runs are almost full Dark Side.

Modifié par Neria Rose, 05 mars 2010 - 05:29 .

[Zulu_DFA]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...


I just cant see doing it, even playing as a renegade it just doesn’t feel right to betray Tali.

Besides she packs a shotgun, knows how to use it and can easily bypass the security on my cabin door to shoot me while I sleep.

When I sleep, I have Legion guarding the corridor connecting the cabin to the elevator.

What?  I can't believe you didn't sell him to your organization for it's benefit.

I could always do that if I didn't like the results of interrogaton.
What I don't understand is why I have to keep a private Museum of Natural History of Tuchanka in the cargo hold of my warship, when the Cerberus labcoats would be crazy happy to dissect its only exhibit in search for Collector tech. Especially after I knew that TIM would send an e-mail expressing interest in that after you released the Grunt.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 05 mars 2010 - 05:44 .

[Madecologist]

Nope I won't... the real reason is not because of my sig.. no. Ever since KOTOR 1, I had a certain a playstyle. Save everyone, gain everyone's trust, convert everyone to good. Fueding Family, happy ending, Sith ghost, converted to Light Side, you name it and I did it. My friend actually watched me playing behoved how often I happy my way out of everything.

This carried on to Jade Empire and even Mass Effect. Full loyalty, everyone living, bumping through the galaxy, getting Miranda to quit Cerberus (drag her to the last fight just so she can say it). All of this includes having Tali's loyalty too.

You would suprised how I un-darked DA:O too. By the end I turned that too into a pink fairy tale. Dark Fantasy my foot.

Modifié par Madecologist, 05 mars 2010 - 05:37 .

[GenericPlayer2]

To be honest, I 'betray' her on almost every play through. The only time I don't is when I want the renegade dialog resolution option between her and Legion.



To be honest, I have very little respect or faith in Quarians. Tali argues with me whether I make comments supportive of retaking the homeworld or against it. This makes it difficult to take anything she says seriously, and compels me to treat her like a child. That means doing something against her wishes that I feel might be for the greater good. If the fleet is divided over peace and war, the best I can do is provide all possible information and let everyone make an informed decision, even if that fragments the fleet. That way the people who seek peace are not dragged into a war along with those who don't.



I strongly believe the blue/red/rally options should have not been available. They are cop outs for people who do not want to take a position and whitewash what would otherwise be a difficult decision to make, so for most part I try pretend they are not there. If I get Tali exiled, then the mission was a waste of my time, and I am better off skipping it and dealing with the Collectors instead.



Finally, I think it would be hypocritical of me to be furious with the burial of the facts regarding reapers, and the council playing dumb on the subject, only for me to conceal the facts in the Quarian trial. If I hated Tali I would send her through the tubes to die, but I don't - I revealed the truth about her father because it was the right thing to do. I think Tali's reaction to my decision is naive and childish.



I highly doubt that Bioware will reward people who make the 'tough choices', but I will probably play ME3 with this decision in my imports regardless.

[GuardianAngel470]

scxenophobe wrote...

noobzor99 wrote...

Guess what? If you don't give them the evidence, you get a nice letter from one of the admirals about how they found the evidence. It says that, if you had shown the evidence, humans could have benefited, but since you didn't you will be destroyed alongside the geth! (Yeah, right.)

I never gave them the evidence (enough paragon/renegade or just let Tali get exiled) but I wonder if that will affect ME3...

Yeah, I wanted to send a letter back "Know what I did to the last guy with an army of Geth?"

YES!  I love you.  


No but seriously, I would love to renegade her @ss into oblivion.  Having an army/fleet of geth notwithstanding.

[yummysoap]

I realized I wouldn't be able to see the suicidal expression on her face as I damned her family line, so I figured it wasn't worth it.

[GenericPlayer2]

Just to clarify, I tried all options in this trial at least once, and I always get that letter from Daro'Xen.

[cipher_Cero]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

To be honest, I 'betray' her on almost every play through. The only time I don't is when I want the renegade dialog resolution option between her and Legion.

To be honest, I have very little respect or faith in Quarians. Tali argues with me whether I make comments supportive of retaking the homeworld or against it. This makes it difficult to take anything she says seriously, and compels me to treat her like a child. That means doing something against her wishes that I feel might be for the greater good. If the fleet is divided over peace and war, the best I can do is provide all possible information and let everyone make an informed decision, even if that fragments the fleet. That way the people who seek peace are not dragged into a war along with those who don't.

I strongly believe the blue/red/rally options should have not been available. They are cop outs for people who do not want to take a position and whitewash what would otherwise be a difficult decision to make, so for most part I try pretend they are not there. If I get Tali exiled, then the mission was a waste of my time, and I am better off skipping it and dealing with the Collectors instead.

Finally, I think it would be hypocritical of me to be furious with the burial of the facts regarding reapers, and the council playing dumb on the subject, only for me to conceal the facts in the Quarian trial. If I hated Tali I would send her through the tubes to die, but I don't - I revealed the truth about her father because it was the right thing to do. I think Tali's reaction to my decision is naive and childish.

I highly doubt that Bioware will reward people who make the 'tough choices', but I will probably play ME3 with this decision in my imports regardless.

And I understand that, definitely.

I'm just wondering what information is there to begin with that would help the quarian people at all.

Rael'Zorah and the crew of the Alarei (those compliant, anyway) were experimenting with active geth, endangering the Migrant Fleet. The situation is either dealt with quietly or everyone finds out about it.

They're divided between going to war and seeking peace, but none of the information they're provided is new. A former member of the Admiralty board is guilty of reactivating geth on his own ship.

The data found aboard, which Dar'Xen finds if you don't present the evidence, presents the possibility of reclaiming the geth, but this is independent of convicting Rael'Zorah.

[GenericPlayer2]

cipher_Cero wrote...

And I understand that, definitely.

I'm just wondering what information is there to begin with that would help the quarian people at all.

Rael'Zorah and the crew of the Alarei (those compliant, anyway) were experimenting with active geth, endangering the Migrant Fleet. The situation is either dealt with quietly or everyone finds out about it.

They're divided between going to war and seeking peace, but none of the information they're provided is new. A former member of the Admiralty board is guilty of reactivating geth on his own ship.

The data found aboard, which Dar'Xen finds if you don't present the evidence, presents the possibility of reclaiming the geth, but this is independent of convicting Rael'Zorah.

Cipher I have handed the evidence over countless times and I still get the same e-mail from Daro'Xen. Either its a bug, or a plot device set up for something in ME3. 

Regarding the information itself, its probably to do with that log that talks about systemic viral attacks.

[Zulu_DFA]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

cipher_Cero wrote...

And I understand that, definitely.

The data found aboard, which Dar'Xen finds if you don't present the evidence, presents the possibility of reclaiming the geth, but this is independent of convicting Rael'Zorah.

Cipher I have handed the evidence over countless times and I still get the same e-mail from Daro'Xen. Either its a bug, or a plot device set up for something in ME3. 

Regarding the information itself, its probably to do with that log that talks about systemic viral attacks.

This:

Zulu_DFA wrote...

There is evidence exonerating Tali and there is the research data. They are separate things!
You can't conseal the data. You only can conseal or present the evidence. Presenting the evidence makes data harder to use, because of the publicity and political repercussions. After you present the evidence, Xen is furious and Han'Gerrel thinks the war effort is sabotaged.

Xen sends a message regardless, because she simply wouldn't give up. Yet, I think presenting the evidence renders war impossible.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 05 mars 2010 - 06:01 .

[ZennExile]

Tali gets annoying after the naughty librarian novelty wears off tbh. Betraying her would be easy. The Quarians are basically space age gypsies that serve little galactic purpose other than to spread angst. If the option to have the geth destroy the flotilla through abusing Tali and starting the war exists in ME3 I will play it for no other reason.

[cipher_Cero]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

cipher_Cero wrote...

And I understand that, definitely.

I'm just wondering what information is there to begin with that would help the quarian people at all.

Rael'Zorah and the crew of the Alarei (those compliant, anyway) were experimenting with active geth, endangering the Migrant Fleet. The situation is either dealt with quietly or everyone finds out about it.

They're divided between going to war and seeking peace, but none of the information they're provided is new. A former member of the Admiralty board is guilty of reactivating geth on his own ship.

The data found aboard, which Dar'Xen finds if you don't present the evidence, presents the possibility of reclaiming the geth, but this is independent of convicting Rael'Zorah.

Cipher I have handed the evidence over countless times and I still get the same e-mail from Daro'Xen. Either its a bug, or a plot device set up for something in ME3. 

Regarding the information itself, its probably to do with that log that talks about systemic viral attacks.

The data found aboard, which Dar'Xen finds if you don't present the
evidence, presents the possibility of reclaiming the geth, but this is
independent of convicting Rael'Zorah.

Should have said "finds anyway." But it's independent of the fact.

[GenericPlayer2]

ZennExile wrote...

Tali gets annoying after the naughty librarian novelty wears off tbh. Betraying her would be easy. The Quarians are basically space age gypsies that serve little galactic purpose other than to spread angst. If the option to have the geth destroy the flotilla through abusing Tali and starting the war exists in ME3 I will play it for no other reason.

Its not only the novelty that wears off fast, but she can get downright nasty if you present the evidence. I have to sit through conversations where she talks about how she joined the team despite working with Cerberus and conveniently  forgets that I saved her from those thugs on the citadel, did her pilgrimage for her, that I saved her mission on Freedom's progress and saved her and Reegar on Haelstrom. She tries to convey that I owe her somehow when the fact is she would have been dead 3-4 times over if not for me. Again this makes it hard to take her seriously.

[thedoncarnage]

This is another example of how messed up the Paragon/Renegade system is.

Betraying Tali here is not a "badass" thing to do, nor is it even renegade for that matter. Telling the truth about a war criminal's actions is a VERY Paragon thing to do because it's the lawful, by-the-book outcome. On the other hand covering up evidence at a trial is extremely renegade. But instead the devs swapped those labels because for some reason Bioware's writers would rather equate renegade with "jerk" instead of the true definition: Someone willing to go outside the law to accomplish a task.

Let's imagine the real life equivalent here: An investigator at the Nuremberg trials covers up evidence of war crimes against one of Hitler's generals. Why? Because the general's daughter is a friend of the investigator. Would letting the criminal get off be a "paragon" thing to do? Hell no. But would it be the right thing to do? That answer is in the eye of the beholder.

/rant.

Modifié par thedoncarnage, 05 mars 2010 - 06:18 .

[The Angry One]

thedoncarnage wrote...

This is another example of how messed up the Paragon/Renegade system is.

Betraying Tali here is not a "badass" thing to do, nor is it even renegade for that matter. Telling the truth about a war criminal's actions is a VERY Paragon thing to do because it's the lawful, by-the-book outcome. On the other hand covering up evidence at a trial is extremely renegade. But instead the devs swapped those labels because for some reason Bioware's writers think renegade = jerk. It's sad, really.

Let's imagine the real life equivalent here: An investigator at the Nuremberg trials covers up evidence of war crimes against one of Hitler's generals. Why? Because the general's daughter is a friend of the investigator. Would letting the criminal get off be a "paragon" thing to do? Hell no.

/rant.

Unsurprising given BioWare's mindset.
Back in KotOR there was that bit where you were defending this Republic agent from a murder charge.
Now, he was guilty. But you got light side points for getting him off by... intimidating or force persuading witnesses and witholding evidence.
Telling the truth and letting the witnesses say what actually happened was considered the dark side option!