101 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaysonie]

SwobyJ wrote...

If this is what it seems like it is, then Bioware is now starting on the slippery slope of losing my (and it appears many more) confidence. Looks like *zero* exploration and even more emphasis on 'bang bang shoot shoot'.

Between these completely blah looking missions (if I want a future tank game, I'll buy a future tank game) and the noticeable increase in storytelling in say Heavy Rain (making me now a fan of its developers) being more impressive than ME dialogue wheels... well... I better be blown away by the DLC (/expansions?) after this free Hammerhead, or I just won't care about ME3 for a while... let alone pay for DLC..

Its free.

Plus, Heavy Rain is the equivalent of an interactive cutscene with its entire focus on story. Of course its going to have more storytelling and dialogue. Thats all it has gameplay wise.

[EatChildren]

SwobyJ wrote...

Between these completely blah looking missions (if I want a future tank game, I'll buy a future tank game) and the noticeable increase in storytelling in say Heavy Rain (making me now a fan of its developers) being more impressive than ME dialogue wheels... well... I better be blown away by the DLC (/expansions?) after this free Hammerhead, or I just won't care about ME3 for a while... let alone pay for DLC..

What a silly comparison. Heavy Rain is 100% story driven. The game is the story. Its an interactive movie. Even scene, moment, character, and section is 100% about the story it is telling. You are never, ever going to see a BioWare game telling a story in a similar manner. Ever. Not unless it too is a 100% story driven game.

And no game BioWare have released are like that. Just because it has a story to tell doesnt mean it is completely and utterly story driven. You're crazy if you think Mass Effect is ever going to offer the story depth of that title.

[SaulTighsEyePatch]

Sweet! I for one am psyched for the hammerhead.

I do have one concern though: does its projectiles seem slow to anyone? In ME 1, when you fire the cannon whatever you're aiming at blows up instantly. Here it has a long travel time. You'd think that mass accelerator slugs would travel faster than that.

Modifié par SaulTighsEyePatch, 05 mars 2010 - 10:20 .

[ImperialOperative]

I find it rather hilarious that people think there was "exploration" in ME1.



How ludicrous.

[DarknessBear]

ImperialOperative wrote...

I find it rather hilarious that people think there was "exploration" in ME1.

How ludicrous.

There was buddy, maybe you should replay it sometime and stop playing Dragon Age where it instantly teleports you to one zone to the other. 

EatChildren wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Between these completely blah looking missions (if I want a future tank game, I'll buy a future tank game) and the noticeable increase in storytelling in say Heavy Rain (making me now a fan of its developers) being more impressive than ME dialogue wheels... well... I better be blown away by the DLC (/expansions?) after this free Hammerhead, or I just won't care about ME3 for a while... let alone pay for DLC..

What a silly comparison. Heavy Rain is 100% story driven. The game is the story. Its an interactive movie. Even scene, moment, character, and section is 100% about the story it is telling. You are never, ever going to see a BioWare game telling a story in a similar manner. Ever. Not unless it too is a 100% story driven game.

And no game BioWare have released are like that. Just because it has a story to tell doesnt mean it is completely and utterly story driven. You're crazy if you think Mass Effect is ever going to offer the story depth of that title.

The guy did not say, "Make Mass Effect 3 - Heavy Rain in Space." he was relating the dialogue "wheels" to the two games and how they are different. I completely agree, the way Heavy Rain does dialogue is by different options in no sequential order - you are not entirely sure HOW the character will handle what you said and there is no cut and dry, good or evil choice. Also, the character react differently to the way you ask them. You could have two different outcomes just by asking questions in a different order. 

I would like to see Mass Effect follow something less cookie cutter in their dialogue. Even Dragon Age does it better. But, no I'm NOT saying Heavy Rain and Mass Effect are the same. 

*cough* Mass Effect has turned into a mindless shooter*cough* 

Modifié par DarknessBear, 05 mars 2010 - 10:33 .

[ImperialOperative]

SwobyJ wrote...

If this is what it seems like it is, then Bioware is now starting on the slippery slope of losing my (and it appears many more) confidence. Looks like *zero* exploration and even more emphasis on 'bang bang shoot shoot'.

Between these completely blah looking missions (if I want a future tank game, I'll buy a future tank game) and the noticeable increase in storytelling in say Heavy Rain (making me now a fan of its developers) being more impressive than ME dialogue wheels... well... I better be blown away by the DLC (/expansions?) after this free Hammerhead, or I just won't care about ME3 for a while... let alone pay for DLC..

Heavy Rain isn't a video game.  It's a movie with quicktime events.

Bioware might make story driven games, but they're still GAMES that are supposed to be FUN with GAMEPLAY.

[ImperialOperative]

DarknessBear wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

I find it rather hilarious that people think there was "exploration" in ME1.

How ludicrous.

There was buddy, maybe you should replay it sometime and stop playing Dragon Age where it instantly teleports you to one zone to the other. 

There was NOT any exploration in the true sense of the word.  You could land on 1kmx1km plots of generic (what looked like) randomly generated land, with NOTHING to "explore."  Points of interest are marked on your map, and nearly every single "POI" is just a mindless "match the buttons" mini-game.  The only things you had to "explore" for were the ore deposits, and doing that took FOREVER and was MIND****INGLY boring.

ME1 didn't have exploration bub, it had roving around in generic terrain to reach generic copy/paste buildings, which are marked on the map so you didn't have to worry about getting lost in the boring generic landscape.

[EatChildren]

ImperialOperative wrote...

I find it rather hilarious that people think there was "exploration" in ME1.

How ludicrous.

By "exploration" they mean areas of unknown where the player is free to explore at their own will, essentially the Mako planets. Every environment in ME2 is wholey contained, and you're never really given a moment to breath. Combat is thrown at you in spades. Everywhere you go, and everything you do, always has you basically at the frontline.

Not that I'm complaining about that. I love the combat in ME2.

But comparitively ME2 doesnt have any moments where the game's pace slows down and allows you to do things, by yourself, in your own way. The Mako planets were hardly anything magnificent, but somehow managed to provide those moments. The feeling that you're alone, in the middle of nowhere, and free to do what you want.

ME2 doesnt have any locations like that. The Hammerhead doesnt look to be like that either, as its always keeping you again on the frontline, always throwing things at you, and never really giving you a chance to stop, look up, and marvel at the galaxy.

That is what people who miss "exploration" mean.

[DarknessBear]

EatChildren wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

I find it rather hilarious that people think there was "exploration" in ME1.

How ludicrous.

By "exploration" they mean areas of unknown where the player is free to explore at their own will, essentially the Mako planets. Every environment in ME2 is wholey contained, and you're never really given a moment to breath. Combat is thrown at you in spades. Everywhere you go, and everything you do, always has you basically at the frontline.

Not that I'm complaining about that. I love the combat in ME2.

But comparitively ME2 doesnt have any moments where the game's pace slows down and allows you to do things, by yourself, in your own way. The Mako planets were hardly anything magnificent, but somehow managed to provide those moments. The feeling that you're alone, in the middle of nowhere, and free to do what you want.

ME2 doesnt have any locations like that. The Hammerhead doesnt look to be like that either, as its always keeping you again on the frontline, always throwing things at you, and never really giving you a chance to stop, look up, and marvel at the galaxy.

That is what people who miss "exploration" mean.

*clap clap clap* Exactly. I don't think anyone is defending that the Mako parts in Mass Effect 1 were "PERFECT!" just that it gave a sense of scale and exploration that ME2 is really lacking. And just imagining if they spent enough time and attention fixing the exploration as they did the combat, it would be a truly remarkable experience that most games have not done. Exploring a Universe. 

Modifié par DarknessBear, 05 mars 2010 - 10:39 .

[FutureBoy81]

ImperialOperative wrote...

DarknessBear wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

I find it rather hilarious that people think there was "exploration" in ME1.

How ludicrous.

There was buddy, maybe you should replay it sometime and stop playing Dragon Age where it instantly teleports you to one zone to the other. 

There was NOT any exploration in the true sense of the word.  You could land on 1kmx1km plots of generic (what looked like) randomly generated land, with NOTHING to "explore."  Points of interest are marked on your map, and nearly every single "POI" is just a mindless "match the buttons" mini-game.  The only things you had to "explore" for were the ore deposits, and doing that took FOREVER and was MIND****INGLY boring.

ME1 didn't have exploration bub, it had roving around in generic terrain to reach generic copy/paste buildings, which are marked on the map so you didn't have to worry about getting lost in the boring generic landscape.

No matter how drab you thought it was it was exploration none the less, not some rail shooting game that is the hammercrap that we have coming ....

[Jaysonie]

FutureBoy81 wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

DarknessBear wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

I find it rather hilarious that people think there was "exploration" in ME1.

How ludicrous.

There was buddy, maybe you should replay it sometime and stop playing Dragon Age where it instantly teleports you to one zone to the other. 

There was NOT any exploration in the true sense of the word.  You could land on 1kmx1km plots of generic (what looked like) randomly generated land, with NOTHING to "explore."  Points of interest are marked on your map, and nearly every single "POI" is just a mindless "match the buttons" mini-game.  The only things you had to "explore" for were the ore deposits, and doing that took FOREVER and was MIND****INGLY boring.

ME1 didn't have exploration bub, it had roving around in generic terrain to reach generic copy/paste buildings, which are marked on the map so you didn't have to worry about getting lost in the boring generic landscape.

No matter how drab you thought it was it was exploration none the less, not some rail shooting game that is the hammercrap that we have coming ....

Do you know what a rail shooter is?

[ImperialOperative]

FutureBoy81 wrote...

No matter how drab you thought it was it was exploration none the less, not some rail shooting game that is the hammercrap that we have coming ....

It's not exploration when all the points of interest are marked out for you, and everything else is empty space.

[DarknessBear]

ImperialOperative wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

If this is what it seems like it is, then Bioware is now starting on the slippery slope of losing my (and it appears many more) confidence. Looks like *zero* exploration and even more emphasis on 'bang bang shoot shoot'.

Between these completely blah looking missions (if I want a future tank game, I'll buy a future tank game) and the noticeable increase in storytelling in say Heavy Rain (making me now a fan of its developers) being more impressive than ME dialogue wheels... well... I better be blown away by the DLC (/expansions?) after this free Hammerhead, or I just won't care about ME3 for a while... let alone pay for DLC..

Heavy Rain isn't a video game.  It's a movie with quicktime events.

Bioware might make story driven games, but they're still GAMES that are supposed to be FUN with GAMEPLAY.

I'll post again for you...
The guy did not say, "Make Mass Effect 3 = Heavy Rain in Space." he was relating the dialogue "wheels" to the two games and how they are different. I completely agree, the way Heavy Rain does dialogue is by different options in no sequential order - you are not entirely sure HOW the character will handle what you said and there is no cut and dry, good or evil choice. Also, the character react differently to the way you ask them. You could have two different outcomes just by asking questions in a different order. 

I would like to see Mass Effect follow something less cookie cutter in their dialogue. Even Dragon Age does it better. But, no I'm NOT saying Heavy Rain and Mass Effect are the same. 

*cough* Mass Effect has turned into a mindless shooter*cough* 

ImperialOperative wrote...

FutureBoy81 wrote...

No matter how drab you thought it was it was exploration none the less, not some rail shooting game that is the hammercrap that we have coming ....

It's not exploration when all the points of interest are marked out for you, and everything else is empty space.

Yes it is. What is it then? You are put on a planet, with some points of interest and then you "go". You are not following a linear corridor of conviently placed obstacles and invisible walls. 

Modifié par DarknessBear, 05 mars 2010 - 10:44 .

[adam_grif]

Wtf is with the slow moving rockets that the main gun is firing?

[FutureBoy81]

Jaysonie wrote...

FutureBoy81 wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

DarknessBear wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

I find it rather hilarious that people think there was "exploration" in ME1.

How ludicrous.

There was buddy, maybe you should replay it sometime and stop playing Dragon Age where it instantly teleports you to one zone to the other. 

There was NOT any exploration in the true sense of the word.  You could land on 1kmx1km plots of generic (what looked like) randomly generated land, with NOTHING to "explore."  Points of interest are marked on your map, and nearly every single "POI" is just a mindless "match the buttons" mini-game.  The only things you had to "explore" for were the ore deposits, and doing that took FOREVER and was MIND****INGLY boring.

ME1 didn't have exploration bub, it had roving around in generic terrain to reach generic copy/paste buildings, which are marked on the map so you didn't have to worry about getting lost in the boring generic landscape.

No matter how drab you thought it was it was exploration none the less, not some rail shooting game that is the hammercrap that we have coming ....

Do you know what a rail shooter is?

yes, do you know what a rail shooter is ?

[DarknessBear]

ImperialOperative wrote...

FutureBoy81 wrote...

No matter how drab you thought it was it was exploration none the less, not some rail shooting game that is the hammercrap that we have coming ....

It's not exploration when all the points of interest are marked out for you, and everything else is empty space.

Yes it is. What is it then? You are put on a planet, with some points of interest and then you "go". You are not following a linear corridor of conviently placed obstacles and invisible walls. 

FutureBoy81 wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...

FutureBoy81 wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

DarknessBear wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

I find it rather hilarious that people think there was "exploration" in ME1.

How ludicrous.

There was buddy, maybe you should replay it sometime and stop playing Dragon Age where it instantly teleports you to one zone to the other. 

There was NOT any exploration in the true sense of the word.  You could land on 1kmx1km plots of generic (what looked like) randomly generated land, with NOTHING to "explore."  Points of interest are marked on your map, and nearly every single "POI" is just a mindless "match the buttons" mini-game.  The only things you had to "explore" for were the ore deposits, and doing that took FOREVER and was MIND****INGLY boring.

ME1 didn't have exploration bub, it had roving around in generic terrain to reach generic copy/paste buildings, which are marked on the map so you didn't have to worry about getting lost in the boring generic landscape.

No matter how drab you thought it was it was exploration none the less, not some rail shooting game that is the hammercrap that we have coming ....

Do you know what a rail shooter is?

yes, do you know what a rail shooter is ?

I would not say it is an "on rail shooter", but a corridor shooter. 

Modifié par DarknessBear, 05 mars 2010 - 10:47 .

[Jaysonie]

FutureBoy81 wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...

FutureBoy81 wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

DarknessBear wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

I find it rather hilarious that people think there was "exploration" in ME1.

How ludicrous.

There was buddy, maybe you should replay it sometime and stop playing Dragon Age where it instantly teleports you to one zone to the other. 

There was NOT any exploration in the true sense of the word.  You could land on 1kmx1km plots of generic (what looked like) randomly generated land, with NOTHING to "explore."  Points of interest are marked on your map, and nearly every single "POI" is just a mindless "match the buttons" mini-game.  The only things you had to "explore" for were the ore deposits, and doing that took FOREVER and was MIND****INGLY boring.

ME1 didn't have exploration bub, it had roving around in generic terrain to reach generic copy/paste buildings, which are marked on the map so you didn't have to worry about getting lost in the boring generic landscape.

No matter how drab you thought it was it was exploration none the less, not some rail shooting game that is the hammercrap that we have coming ....

Do you know what a rail shooter is?

yes, do you know what a rail shooter is ?

In a rail shooter the players control is limited to directing where to fire a virtual gun or move their character arcross a set path. The player does not control the path their avatar takes from the start to the end . Mass Effect 2(and the hammerhead) are no rail shooter.

Modifié par Jaysonie, 05 mars 2010 - 11:01 .

[ImperialOperative]

DarknessBear wrote...

Yes it is. What is it then? You are put on a planet, with some points of interest and then you "go". You are not following a linear corridor of conviently placed obstacles and invisible walls. 

Exploration is venturing into the unknown, the fact that there are POI's already marked out for you so you can just plot a marker and head right there makes it purely "linear" in the literal sense of the word, especially since the planets are mostly empty space and provide 0 reason to NOT go straight to the POI's.

[FutureBoy81]

ImperialOperative wrote...

FutureBoy81 wrote...

No matter how drab you thought it was it was exploration none the less, not some rail shooting game that is the hammercrap that we have coming ....

It's not exploration when all the points of interest are marked out for you, and everything else is empty space.

ill say again no matter how boring or uninteresting the points of interest are there was still some aspect of driving around to find them, because not all of the spots were premarked you could actually find a deposit or two, but like i said its still exploration, i wasnt saying it was good or perfect but atleast it resembled an open space area, it seems like the lack of exploration is what you were dissapointed with if thats the case just say that, dont try to discredit the fact that there was exploration in the game ....

[DarknessBear]

ImperialOperative wrote...

DarknessBear wrote...

Yes it is. What is it then? You are put on a planet, with some points of interest and then you "go". You are not following a linear corridor of conviently placed obstacles and invisible walls. 

Exploration is venturing into the unknown, the fact that there are POI's already marked out for you so you can just plot a marker and head right there makes it purely "linear" in the literal sense of the word, especially since the planets are mostly empty space and provide 0 reason to NOT go straight to the POI's.

Exploration is the act of searching or traveling a terrain (including space, see space exploration) for the purpose of discovery of resources or information.

Just... stop... please. 

[FutureBoy81]

Jaysonie wrote...

FutureBoy81 wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...

FutureBoy81 wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

DarknessBear wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

I find it rather hilarious that people think there was "exploration" in ME1.

How ludicrous.

There was buddy, maybe you should replay it sometime and stop playing Dragon Age where it instantly teleports you to one zone to the other. 

There was NOT any exploration in the true sense of the word.  You could land on 1kmx1km plots of generic (what looked like) randomly generated land, with NOTHING to "explore."  Points of interest are marked on your map, and nearly every single "POI" is just a mindless "match the buttons" mini-game.  The only things you had to "explore" for were the ore deposits, and doing that took FOREVER and was MIND****INGLY boring.

ME1 didn't have exploration bub, it had roving around in generic terrain to reach generic copy/paste buildings, which are marked on the map so you didn't have to worry about getting lost in the boring generic landscape.

No matter how drab you thought it was it was exploration none the less, not some rail shooting game that is the hammercrap that we have coming ....

Do you know what a rail shooter is?

yes, do you know what a rail shooter is ?

In a rail shooter the players control is limited to directing where to fire a virtual gun or move their character arcross a set path. The player does not control the path their avatar takes from the start to the end . Mass Effect 2 is no rail shooter.

who said mass effect 2 was a Rail shooter ? i certianly didnt, i said the new mini-game Hammercrap resembles a rail shooter which if you watch the new vid on gametrailer.com it suspiciously does ...

[eternalnightmare13]

Here's a link to the video footage of the Hammerhead...

[ImperialOperative]

DarknessBear wrote...

Exploration is the act of searching or traveling a terrain (including space, see space exploration) for the purpose of discovery of resources or information.

Just... stop... please. 

By that definition, Mass Effect 2 had even more exploration than the first game.

Modifié par ImperialOperative, 05 mars 2010 - 10:59 .

[Noodlesoupninja]

FutureBoy81 wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...

FutureBoy81 wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...

FutureBoy81 wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

DarknessBear wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

I find it rather hilarious that people think there was "exploration" in ME1.

How ludicrous.

There was buddy, maybe you should replay it sometime and stop playing Dragon Age where it instantly teleports you to one zone to the other. 

There was NOT any exploration in the true sense of the word.  You could land on 1kmx1km plots of generic (what looked like) randomly generated land, with NOTHING to "explore."  Points of interest are marked on your map, and nearly every single "POI" is just a mindless "match the buttons" mini-game.  The only things you had to "explore" for were the ore deposits, and doing that took FOREVER and was MIND****INGLY boring.

ME1 didn't have exploration bub, it had roving around in generic terrain to reach generic copy/paste buildings, which are marked on the map so you didn't have to worry about getting lost in the boring generic landscape.

No matter how drab you thought it was it was exploration none the less, not some rail shooting game that is the hammercrap that we have coming ....

Do you know what a rail shooter is?

yes, do you know what a rail shooter is ?

In a rail shooter the players control is limited to directing where to fire a virtual gun or move their character arcross a set path. The player does not control the path their avatar takes from the start to the end . Mass Effect 2 is no rail shooter.

who said mass effect 2 was a Rail shooter ? i certianly didnt, i said the new mini-game Hammercrap resembles a rail shooter which if you watch the new vid on gametrailer.com it suspiciously does ...

No, no it actually looks nothing like a rail shooter. Thanks for trying though.