132 réponses à ce sujet

[Schroing]

Andorfiend wrote...

Schroing wrote...

Andorfiend wrote...

But I'm not going to grow a titanium shoulder later in life, nor will my kids inherit one from granddad. If I'm going to get an artificial joint later in life it will be seperately designed and made and bear no relation to his, aside from a possible genetic predisposition to torn rotator cuffs.

That's nice, and it's also not evolution.

Yes, I know. That was my point, I'm glad you understood.

It's too bad you didn't.

[theriddlen]

I think that they were created by the specie that shot one down. They probably also made citadel and mass relays. During one of their wars they developed giant AI-controlled warship, and put their best tech inside. Unluckily, it turned against them and everything that was organic. Their fleet could not match reapers power, and their people started to be indoctrinated. They eventually developed a weapon that could destroy reaper, but after one shot reapers located them and killed.

I think that they were bug-shaped, everything in ME indicates that every new race is more advanced.



Reapers studied organic species and learned that it takes millions of years for race to grow up, but they evolve everywhere, so if they will keep "reaping" the races and waiting for another one to assemble properly, they will live forever.

[The Unfallen]

They say it is impossible for a machine to have created itself...



...then again many years ago we did think the world was flat.

Modifié par That Yellow Bastard, 12 mars 2010 - 11:09 .

[oErRoSiOno]

I think that maybe the protheans created them just like they created the citadel. But maybe something went wrong with the reapers and now they are trying to control everything. Cause remember that the collecters were protheans.

[Sayantsi]

It was made pretty clear in the game that the Protheans did not make the Reapers, the cycle of extinction has happened hundreds or thousands of times.

[MrManbat]

Just to be a bit clear the Protheans dint create the citadel the Reapers did or so they say.

My guess is that who ever build the Reapers also build the citadel

It would be interesting to find out if the keepers have something to do with them.

[oErRoSiOno]

The protheans did build citadel. Go to your codex, it even says that they did.

[sedrikhcain]

oErRoSiOno wrote...

The protheans did build citadel. Go to your codex, it even says that they did.

No, the codex says "supposedly" constructed by the Protheans. In the game, you discover in no uncertain terms that the Reapers built the Citadel.

[Karstedt]

JMKnave wrote...

It is very obvious.

Since things don't suddenly appear out of nothingness, they must've been created. And since they were created, they must've been created by something that came before them.

Unless you want to suggest that they suddenly materialized and then time-travelled backwards through time to before they initially materialized.

For a good time, tell that to a religious person.

From a certain perspective though, we all have always existed from our own point of view. IE, the nature of existance to any given entity has no meaning or relevance outside said entity's lifespan.

Another explanation for having always existed, could be that the reapers simply have no infomation of anything prior to their creation. If they are some kind of AI and were never given knowledge of their origins, from their point of view they have always existed.

They could also just be old, arrogant, and dismissive of any lesser beings attempting to understand them. It's like when congress tried to question Dick Cheney and got a resounding,
Gof f*** yourself". Only the reapers are more polite.

[Karstedt]

sedrikhcain wrote...

oErRoSiOno wrote...

The protheans did build citadel. Go to your codex, it even says that they did.

No, the codex says "supposedly" constructed by the Protheans. In the game, you discover in no uncertain terms that the Reapers built the Citadel.

Correct. The protheans discovered and used the Citadel in the same way the asari did. I beleive that it was Vigil on Ilos that tells you about that stuff.

[MrManbat]

oErRoSiOno wrote...

The protheans did build citadel. Go to your codex, it even says that they did.

I know what is said ed in the codex
There also given credit for building the Mass Relay
But also take into account that   when you talk to Sovereign  it tell you it was them that build the Citadel and the Mass relays they use it as a kind of bate when  the galaxy is ready to be harvest  in short.

Modifié par MrManbat, 13 mars 2010 - 12:59 .

[theriddlen]

Sovereign it tell you it was them that build the Citadel and the Mass relays

Which may mean that soveregin was made of people who build the citadel. Dont forget that reapers are like legion - many souls inside. Souls of melted people.

[cowboyp97dc]

I still think that as sinister as the Reapers and their goals are there is an even more illusive, powerful race behind them. I think that the Reapers, and possibly the citadel and mass relays, were built by a highly advanced race in a neiboring galaxy, who fought and won a war with a highly advanced race (possibly the race who was turned into keepers) from the Milky Way galaxy. They built the Reapers to defeat their enemies, and then repurposed them to ensure no race in the Milky Way could ever challange their power again. That would explain why no one has ever seen any trace of that race, and would also explain why the Reapers invade and destroy all advanced life in the Milky Way every time it advances to a certain point. The Reaper's masters don't want life in the Milky Way to advance too far. The Reapers may think they have always existed because after that horrific war and once all resources were taken the Reapers were reprogramed with their new task and all knowledge of who built them was removed (possibly for fear that they were too powerful and may turn on their creators if they knew about them). This would also explain why something (or someone) is affecting the sun where Tali is found- the sun should not be aging that quickly and it will cause the enitre system to die when it goes super nova. The Reapers would have no reason to want that as they harvest organic life that these systems produce after each extinction- the Geth would have no reason to destroy a system in their own space- so who would want to develope a weapon that destroys absolutely everything? A species who does not want organic life in the Milky Way to challange them- They would probably have spy networking to tell them that the Reapers have not invaded this cycle and are bogged down in dark space. That species could have become concerned when organics found a way to stop or at least delay the Reapers and if they could defeat the Reapers then they would most definately be a threat. Therefore I think they stared research on a weapon that could cause stars to go super nova. If they could just destroy every star in the Milky way it would destroy all the systems and become a vast wasteland that they would never have to worry about again.

[binaryemperor]

I think the first Reaper made itself. Reapers might not even be true AI. I'm assuming the first Reaper was actually an entire race of aggressive beings who desired immortality. Considering that Reapers are the collective of a sentient race, they may be a massive organic being - the product of many living beings combined together and protected by a mechanical body.

Modifié par binaryemperor, 13 mars 2010 - 08:45 .

[Origional MrFusspot]

Think about this then !!!!!!!
My theory is that the Reapers were created long ago, in a distant galaxy, by a highly evolved space faring organic race, that wanted to become immortal. Possibly in some of the earliest 2nd phase galaxies, up to 6 billion years, (off the top of my head).
Much in the same way as the Quarians 'origionally' created the geth (if you read the history). This is hinted at in ME1 when Saren states that the Geth see the Reapers as the pinicale of their evolution.
They then uploaded their mind(s) into their cybornetic creations, thus becoming the Reapers. This would make sense because they seem to have individual personalities, (i.e Sovereign and Harbinger are two completely different characters).
All life, in any sense, requires energy in order to exist. The Reapers harvested life from 'their' galaxy, in much the same way as we harvest animals on earth. The Reapers 'space craft' design enabled this to be done super efficiently. The harvested creatures would then be broken down and introveinosly fed to them, through tubes, and stored in cylinders somewhere inside, to be used slowly when needed. If we look at the 'new' Reaper being created at the end of ME2, we can see this in action. ( I'll get back to why it was 'human' design later). But the energy required for them to exist was to great, in order to have a sustained existance for their 'farmed' creatures. Soon they would become extinct. When they had almost exhausted all life in 'their' galaxy, they realised, that they would have to move onto the next. But not before leaving behind 'Key' technologies. This was in order to steer future life into a fast colonisation of the galaxy, down the technological paths that they control. This would result in maximum yeild throughout the galaxy, as there would be no hindering effects to slow down population growth (i.e food/space shortages, and all other issues that stem from over population). Sovereign mentions this and there are numerous other hints throughout ME1 and 2.
When 'harvesting' life from the 'new' galaxies, they were careful to use life forms that had reached a certain stage of evolution (i.e had evolved to the extent of being able to leave their solar system). In every case they would install the mass relays and citidel type structures in order to steer and speed up the expansion/colonisation program, and to best suit their needs. This can be shown by the proteans visiting cro-magnum man on earth and then becoming extinct 'shortly' after.
Between each galaxy conquest they may have gone into a prolonged hibernation state in deep space, until the next galaxy was ready for 'farming'. Although going off what is said in ME1; Prothean AI says the 'harvesting' took more than a thousand years, and also Liara mentions something along these lines when you rescue her. There are enough Galaxies in the universe, that we no of, for this to be a reasonably constant 50,000 year process, without taking into consideration galaxies we dont know of. Also consider the time it takes to cross deep space between galaxies. These are unimaginable distances, and at the end of ME2 we see the Reapers encroaching on ours. But I'm getting of point.
At certain stages new 'bodies' or 'shells' would have to be created. Either because of damage, age, new technological advances or percieved image. It is not logical that they would create newborn Reapers. More likely, new 'bodies' to transfer their minds into. Since they strive to be immortal. It can be said that the 'new' Human would have been Harbingers new 'body'. Hence his determination to capture and study the only person, to recently destroy a reaper, Shepard.
The Reapers effectively move from galaxy to galaxy 'feeding' on life, in the same way we go from meal to meal. In the process they alter certain species to suit they're needs (the Keepers and the Collectors are two examples). The choice of 'names' in use is so that each species can understand their greatness. Note the differnce in names for sovereign when talking to Legion.
They do not see themselves as Gods, for they will have seen no evidence of anything that can be said to be such a thing. Who is to say they every evolved to believe in such a concept. In the ME universe not all species' believe in God concepts. Instead they see themselves as the ultimate in evolved existance (Harbinger mentions things to this effect if you listen). They see all life in the universe as effectively cattle that they own. In the same way that we look at animals here on earth (we only care about them for our benefit)
From time to time, certain species' will attempt to fight back. There is numerous evidence in ME1 and 2 to back this up if you pay attention.
The 'new' Reaper at the end of ME2 is of Human design, in order to decieve the other species into thinking that it is a human creation. The other species would then turn against humans and create a divided galaxy. The Reapers are of the thinking, that since a Human destroyed one of them, then they must be the strongest species in the galaxy. And in fighting amongst a galaxy, creates a weak galaxy. A Human 'design' reaper would also weaken the spirit of the defending humans, further tipping the scales to the Reapers side. There is evidence of this in Harbingers efforts to capture Shepard alive. Also, even though EDI mentions that the Reapers MAY model 'new' Reapers on the previously conquered life forms. This is only speculation, as she states. And at the end of ME2 the Reapers all look strikeingly similar. They also have non of the characteristics of a life form that would/could have evolved into a space faring species (no limbs capable of handling tools in order to build space crafts). They actually look designed speciffically for space or sea based existance, adding to my theory of an alterior motive for a Human style Reaper.
This is my opinion anyway. Harbinger is sure to explain something along these lines in ME3, and he doesnt sound happy.............
 
The increase of Dark matter or 'anti-matter' from Tali's mission can be explained by the theory and concept of Mass Effect itself. Which i'll discuss another time if anyone is actually interested.

[Black Bizart]

Sayantsi wrote...

Yeah, at some point, someone built an AI machine, whether it was a Reaper or AIs evolved into Reapers, who knows. Reapers could have been built by other AIs.

This.

[Origional MrFusspot]

cowboyp97dc wrote...

I still think that as sinister as the Reapers and their goals are there is an even more illusive, powerful race behind them. I think that the Reapers, and possibly the citadel and mass relays, were built by a highly advanced race in a neiboring galaxy, who fought and won a war with a highly advanced race (possibly the race who was turned into keepers) from the Milky Way galaxy. They built the Reapers to defeat their enemies, and then repurposed them to ensure no race in the Milky Way could ever challange their power again. That would explain why no one has ever seen any trace of that race, and would also explain why the Reapers invade and destroy all advanced life in the Milky Way every time it advances to a certain point. The Reaper's masters don't want life in the Milky Way to advance too far. The Reapers may think they have always existed because after that horrific war and once all resources were taken the Reapers were reprogramed with their new task and all knowledge of who built them was removed (possibly for fear that they were too powerful and may turn on their creators if they knew about them). This would also explain why something (or someone) is affecting the sun where Tali is found- the sun should not be aging that quickly and it will cause the enitre system to die when it goes super nova. The Reapers would have no reason to want that as they harvest organic life that these systems produce after each extinction- the Geth would have no reason to destroy a system in their own space- so who would want to develope a weapon that destroys absolutely everything? A species who does not want organic life in the Milky Way to challange them- They would probably have spy networking to tell them that the Reapers have not invaded this cycle and are bogged down in dark space. That species could have become concerned when organics found a way to stop or at least delay the Reapers and if they could defeat the Reapers then they would most definately be a threat. Therefore I think they stared research on a weapon that could cause stars to go super nova. If they could just destroy every star in the Milky way it would destroy all the systems and become a vast wasteland that they would never have to worry about again.

Look up theories on mass effect an faster than light travel. It will explain it. In a nutshell, the use of mass relay's replaces matter with anti-matter (dark matter), effectively putting dark matter where matter used to be. In the short term this would be un-noticable, but increased use would yield the effect shown to be happening in the star. Issac Assimov's sci-fi book, 'The Gods Themselves'  touches on a similar situation resulting from different circumstances, but creating the same effects. (He was also a highly regarded scientist).

[Zaren]

Hmm, all this talking about who was the first Reaper and where did it come from, and did it make more or was it made seems a little familar ...

[Flible]

I think that the idea of there originally being only one reaper is good but I don't think that they came from another galaxy. I think that at the end of the final game there is only one reaper left. That reaper then realises it has no chance of surviving. It then uses it highly advanced engines and mass effect core to travel faster than the speed of light to go back in time to the beginning of everything. It then harvests the race that it makes and starts creating a reaper army until we get to what happens in ME1.

[cowboyp97dc]

I don't mean any offense to anyone so I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this, but if at the end of the next game we find out that the whole "origins" stroy is some lame time travel that makes all the preceding information make no since (alla Star Trek's new movie) I for one will be really ticked off!! To me the new Star Trek movie ruined the entire series (that dated all the way back to the 60s) because by destroying Vulcan before Spock and Krik even knew eachother it makes the whole rest of the series make no since what so ever. Even if you don't like Star Trek stuff, to ruin Mass Effect in that way would be horrible.

[exskeeny]

or even worse shepards evil twin went back in time to create the reapers just to annoy his brother.

[RyrineaNara]

I consider myself a hardcore Trekkie in fact Time Travel was already in Star Trek, so it didn't bother me. . I liked that they had the guts to destroy the Vulcan home world.





However, Time Travel hasn't been brought up in this world so it wouldn't make any damn sense. I have a theory that somehow that a race built them too move up to a higher life.

[Karstedt]

As epic as it would be to have the reapers be tools for a race from another galaxy, I wouldn't put money on things going that direction.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

the entire point of the final boss is that it explains to you how the reapers were created, (they weren't "just building one", that's how a reaper is "born") so yes we do know. we don't know what race began the process but to be dramatic it'd probably be "the race sacrificed themselves and became the first reaper for some reason, then they begat more reapers, the actual reason they wipe out the galaxy is to rebuild their high consumption race"


that's what i got out of it at least.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 15 mars 2010 - 05:59 .