105 réponses à ce sujet

[Zemore]

Terraneaux wrote...

They're both serial killers. Samara just thinks she has a justification, and also threatens your character explicitly. The choice is fuzzier than you might think.

i think the main difference is Morinth enjoys it and does it for no reason other than her own self gratification
while Samara does it out of some Mislead code of Justice.

[The Angry One]

Zemore wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

They're both serial killers. Samara just thinks she has a justification, and also threatens your character explicitly. The choice is fuzzier than you might think.

i think the main difference is Morinth enjoys it and does it for no reason other than her own self gratification
while Samara does it out of some Mislead code of Justice.

That code however is what gives Samara her gratification, she revels in it.
She isn't as overt as Morinth but she's every bit the sociopath her daughter is.

[Zemore]

The Angry One wrote...

Zemore wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

They're both serial killers. Samara just thinks she has a justification, and also threatens your character explicitly. The choice is fuzzier than you might think.

i think the main difference is Morinth enjoys it and does it for no reason other than her own self gratification
while Samara does it out of some Mislead code of Justice.

That code however is what gives Samara her gratification, she revels in it.
She isn't as overt as Morinth but she's every bit the sociopath her daughter is.

i totally agree that Samaras code is horse**** but in her mind she is helping that AT least is one saving grace for her but she is still one of the more ... evil charcters weither she agrees with that or not.

[Terraneaux]

Zemore wrote...
i totally agree that Samaras code is horse**** but in her mind she is helping that AT least is one saving grace for her but she is still one of the more ... evil charcters weither she agrees with that or not.

Samara's probably a better person as she at least takes some kind of responsibility for her actions with regard to raising her daughter and such.  Morinth doesn't, she blames her behavior on the universe, basically.  On the other hand, I think that Samara is the more dangerous of the two to keep alive: we know that Morinth can't mind control Shep, so she's a bit toothless in that respect, and she wants to save the galaxy just like the rest of the crew, and she's not willing to risk the mission for the sake of getting it on with Shepard, for instance.  I have the feeling that Samara might endanger the mission if it meant following her code, she's a little nuts like that.  

[Barquiel]

Samara views everthing in black and white...but she is not evil imo

cralexns wrote...

kelmar6821 wrote...

she's a space vampire and vampires are cool...

Isn't she more like a space.. succubus?

Space succubi are also cool^_^

[Zemore]

Barquiel wrote...

Samara views everthing in black and white...but she is not evil imo

Heres the thing i dont think samara Tries to be evil but that doesnt mean the things she does arent.
The Cop on the recruit mission for Samara she wouldve died if you hadent shown up explain how that isnt evil when she would just be doing her job it would be cold blooded Murder.

[Mnemnosyne]

Terraneaux wrote...

Samara's probably a better person as she at least takes some kind of responsibility for her actions with regard to raising her daughter and such.  Morinth doesn't, she blames her behavior on the universe, basically.  On the other hand, I think that Samara is the more dangerous of the two to keep alive: we know that Morinth can't mind control Shep, so she's a bit toothless in that respect, and she wants to save the galaxy just like the rest of the crew, and she's not willing to risk the mission for the sake of getting it on with Shepard, for instance.  I have the feeling that Samara might endanger the mission if it meant following her code, she's a little nuts like that.

Uh, no.  Her code requires that she follow your orders until her service to you is over, which is once the mission is completed.  Sure, there is a non-zero probability that she might go back on her word and break that oath, but the probability is really low.  Basically, you have as absolute a guarantee as you're going to have with any sentient being that she will be utterly loyal, at least until the moment the mission is complete.

Morinth, on the other hand, knows nothing about a mission, nothing about the Collectors, and makes the offer to help you in a moment of extreme duress (where she knows she will be killed if she doesn't receive your help).  From all evidence and personal experience you've had with her, she's not particularly trustworthy.  There's every chance that she'll renege on her offer to help or run away or try to kill you the moment Samara is dead and she thinks she has a chance to escape.  She doesn't, but Shepard doesn't have that knowledge to base the decision on; if we're talking in-character, we can't use anything we learn about Morinth after the choice in order to make it, we can only use the knowledge Shepard has at the moment of choosing.

[Barquiel]

Zemore wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Samara views everthing in black and white...but she is not evil imo

Heres the thing i dont think samara Tries to be evil but that doesnt mean the things she does arent.
The Cop on the recruit mission for Samara she wouldve died if you hadent shown up explain how that isnt evil when she would just be doing her job it would be cold blooded Murder.

Well, that's renegade Samara

Anaya arrests her - Samara can't chase Morinth - Morinth kills more innocents

[Zemore]

Barquiel wrote...

Zemore wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Samara views everthing in black and white...but she is not evil imo

Heres the thing i dont think samara Tries to be evil but that doesnt mean the things she does arent.
The Cop on the recruit mission for Samara she wouldve died if you hadent shown up explain how that isnt evil when she would just be doing her job it would be cold blooded Murder.

Well, that's renegade Samara

Anaya arrests her - Samara can't chase Morinth - Morinth kills more innocents

thats the point Innocents will die regardless its just a case of Samara chooses to kill them instead of Morinth

By Samaras Code a child steals a loaf of bread to feed thier starving Family Samara decapitates small child.

Modifié par Zemore, 06 mars 2010 - 11:20 .

[Mnemnosyne]

Honestly I always feel Anaya deserves to die after that stupidity. Shepard even points out that it's moronic to follow orders that she knows will get her killed, for no good reason. Hey lady, if your bosses are that stupid to send you into what everyone admits is practically certain death, while gaining little to no practical benefit in return, it might be time to hand in your resignation.

[Gaddmeister]

Jalem001 wrote...
Even
though Samara is an authority/law figure, and that generally clashes
with the my Shep, I can't justify killing her.  She's loyal, she's nice
and polite...there's no reason to think she's an actual threat to my
Shepard.

She's not loyal until you finish her loyalty mission.

[The Other One]

Terraneaux wrote...

They're both serial killers. Samara just thinks she has a justification, and also threatens your character explicitly. The choice is fuzzier than you might think.

I thought Samara was just flirting when she said she may have to kill me....

[Strange Aeons]

Silent Perforator wrote...

Well...

The way I see it why wouldn't I recruit Morinth after recruiting Jack who also killed a ton of people yet Cerberus - apparently - had no problem recommending her.

Jack is an emotionally unstable sociopath.  She's violent and dangerous, but while she finds violence exhilarating she also seems to perceive it as a retaliation against those who have hurt her or will attempt to hurt her. 

Morinth, on the other hand, is just pure, chaotic evil.   We see in sickening detail how she deliberately targeted an innocent, vulnerable girl, and then casually played with her emotions before snuffing out her life.  That is a whole order of malevolence beyond anything Jack has done, regardless of the body count. 

[GenericPlayer2]

I know Samara threatens to kill Shep after the mission if I asked her to do anything dishonorable...but to be honest the only thing I could think of that would be that bad is killing Jorim Talid. But that guy was shaking people down and taking bribes - Justicars do kill people for that sort of stuff.

[Zemore]

Honestly id like to see Samara try i suspect her arse would be firmly handed to her on a plate.

[Markinator_123]

Recruiting Morinth is without a doubt the most ridiculous decision in the game- there is absolutely NO good reason to do so



Recruiting Morinth = chaotic stupid

[cronshaw8]

Jalem001 wrote...

Alright let me adjust that:

Any RP reason?

There isn't one. Unless you are playing "idiot shepard." Playing "evil" shepard you would actually be less likely to trust someone like Morinth, she is just like you. You hate people like that because you know you can't trust them. Smara has a code, you may think it is ridiculous, but it makes her much easier to manipulate, just like Nilhus did. Paragon shepard might feel sorry for morinth, but any pitty would be far outweighed by a sense of duty to Samara. People defend morinth because they hate samara for whatever reason, or they have a thing for morinth.

[cronshaw8]

Zemore wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Zemore wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Samara views everthing in black and white...but she is not evil imo

Heres the thing i dont think samara Tries to be evil but that doesnt mean the things she does arent.
The Cop on the recruit mission for Samara she wouldve died if you hadent shown up explain how that isnt evil when she would just be doing her job it would be cold blooded Murder.

Well, that's renegade Samara

Anaya arrests her - Samara can't chase Morinth - Morinth kills more innocents

thats the point Innocents will die regardless its just a case of Samara chooses to kill them instead of Morinth

By Samaras Code a child steals a loaf of bread to feed thier starving Family Samara decapitates small child.

How do you know? Have you memorized all 5000 sutras? Justicars are a part of asari culture. It seemse highly unlikely that this artifact would have survived for millena if the Justicars went around slaughtering children.

[The Angry One]

cronshaw8 wrote...

How do you know? Have you memorized all 5000 sutras? Justicars are a part of asari culture. It seemse highly unlikely that this artifact would have survived for millena if the Justicars went around slaughtering children.

I'd say the same thing about Justicars slaughtering police stations, but they can apparently do that.

[Mnemnosyne]

Strange Aeons wrote...

Silent Perforator wrote...

Well...

The way I see it why wouldn't I recruit Morinth after recruiting Jack who also killed a ton of people yet Cerberus - apparently - had no problem recommending her.

Jack is an emotionally unstable sociopath.  She's violent and dangerous, but while she finds violence exhilarating she also seems to perceive it as a retaliation against those who have hurt her or will attempt to hurt her. 

Morinth, on the other hand, is just pure, chaotic evil.   We see in sickening detail how she deliberately targeted an innocent, vulnerable girl, and then casually played with her emotions before snuffing out her life.  That is a whole order of malevolence beyond anything Jack has done, regardless of the body count.

Yeah, and there's also the fact that you don't have a choice about recruiting Jack (and at the time, it even makes sense - she's a powerful biotic and you very well may need such a person, and you do not at that point have an alternate choice for that sort of specialist on your team).  

Morinth, on the other hand, requires sacrificing a person you already have under your command, and who's near-absolute loyalty you are already assured of, only to replace her with a person no more powerful, and far less controllable.

[cronshaw8]

The Angry One wrote...

cronshaw8 wrote...

How do you know? Have you memorized all 5000 sutras? Justicars are a part of asari culture. It seemse highly unlikely that this artifact would have survived for millena if the Justicars went around slaughtering children.

I'd say the same thing about Justicars slaughtering police stations, but they can apparently do that.

Her code doesn't compel her to slaughter the police station, it compels her to escape. It probably also compels her to escape with a minimum of force. Whether or not you think that distinction is releveant is another issue. I'm not trying to argue that Samara's code isn't problematic. I'm also not saying that i agree with it. But there seems to be a tendency to simplyfiy it for whatever reason into "SAMARA SEE EVIL, SAMARA KILL!" Maybe people don't like Samara; maybe BioWare didn't give enough exposition; or whatever. This bothers me enough to make a couple comments about it, that's all. Hopefully some people will get what i'm saying. If not i'm not really interested in getting too worked up about it. Though i do like civil discussions.

Modifié par cronshaw8, 06 mars 2010 - 01:18 .

[hwf]

There is no need to trust Morinth in this decision.
If Shepard can choose for Morinth it means his or her mental strength is strong enough to withstand her seductions.
So any hazard from Morinth being on your ship is out of the question.

What the Renegade choice in this case is about is that you can have one of the best shots at destabilizing Asari society and culture.

You drop a Justicar and get her doppelganger in one fell swoop.
A Justicar that can move along every echelon of Asari society, unquestioned, simply because of her "profession" or "religious doctrine".
The doppelganger in this case is a brutal serial killer which knows every trick of the trade, has slaughtered people and absorbed so much experience that she managed to always evade the one person that knew her best.
To top that off, the doppelganger is capable of creating a significant cultural movement in which Asari tend to gravitate towards self-destruction in creating, worshipping and even feeding Ardat-Yakshi.
After being "saved" by Shepard, Morinth is in the perfect position to rip Asari society a new one.

So, if you're an Earth Supremist (a Renegade) and you don't quite care about all that multicultural "we can all live together in peace and harmony" Paragon bullcrap - here's the best shot you have at taking down the oldest council race a notch, and perhaps more.
Who knows what Morinth can do in one to two years time.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Jalem001 wrote...

Alright let me adjust that:

Any RP reason?

You don't trust Samara and find the leeway given to justicars unconscionable.

[The Angry One]

cronshaw8 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

cronshaw8 wrote...

How do you know? Have you memorized all 5000 sutras? Justicars are a part of asari culture. It seemse highly unlikely that this artifact would have survived for millena if the Justicars went around slaughtering children.

I'd say the same thing about Justicars slaughtering police stations, but they can apparently do that.

Her code doesn't compel her to slaughter the police station, it compels her to escape. It probably also compels her to escape with a minimum of force. Whether or not you think that distinction is releveant is another issue. I'm not trying to argue that Samara's code isn't problematic. I'm also not saying that i agree with it. But there seems to be a tendency to simplyfiy it for whatever reason into "SAMARA SEE EVIL, SAMARA KILL!" Maybe people don't like Samara; maybe BioWare didn't give enough exposition; or whatever. This bothers me enough to make a couple comments about it, that's all. Hopefully some people will get what i'm saying. If not i'm not really interested in getting too worked up about it. Though i do like civil discussions.

Samara made it clear in no uncertain terms that her escape would involve killing every cop between her and the exit. Never does she even imply she'll use a minimum of force, or that she'll ever incapacitate and not kill.
Her philosophy, whether it's due to her code or not is "Get in my way, you die. Do something I don't like, you die."

Modifié par The Angry One, 06 mars 2010 - 01:22 .