75 réponses à ce sujet

[Inarai]

Habelo wrote...

yummysoap wrote...

Habelo wrote...

Lol psychological problems are for ******. We men either shrug it off or embrace it if it is good.

You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Why don't you go and get your legs blown off in war for real before you decide what a "real man" is, you top talking moron. Let's put you in a war scenario and see how long you last without shitting your pants.

I'm not for this idea, but posts like yours give me the shits. Go practice your "real man over the internet" routine somewhere else.

awwhhh you got mad? 

Look just cause i aint a **** living in this **** world where you should feel sorry for everyone doesnt mean that there are no real men who can handle things by not fooling himself with hipocracy and then starts to cry when he sees the world for what it is- thats what it is all about today. ****** like yourself thinking that you fight for whats right and when you are actually out there you go figure that something is wrong and *that* is the thing messing with your mind.

As for loosing your legs and surviving- that is physsical, not psychological. If your body dies and you dont then ofcourse you do not live like you used too.

...  Psychology.  You clearly don't know it, at all.

[Awwman]

Malaria in Farcry 2 sucked

[wrexfan32hanalei]

3 words. ryncol ryncol ryncol.

[thegreateski]

wrexfan32hanalei wrote...

3 words. ryncol ryncol ryncol.

This is good advice for anything.

[thegreateski]

gmartin40 wrote...

wrexfan32hanalei wrote...

3 words. ryncol ryncol ryncol.

That'll make him worse. He'll prolly call his love interest to his room and shoot himself in front of her/him if he drinks that stuff.

That's assuming he survives the first two drinks of Ryncol.

Modifié par thegreateski, 07 mars 2010 - 05:10 .

[Bob5312]

Habelo wrote...
awwhhh you got mad? 

Look just cause i aint a **** living in this **** world where you should feel sorry for everyone doesnt mean that there are no real men who can handle things by not fooling himself with hipocracy and then starts to cry when he sees the world for what it is- thats what it is all about today. ****** like yourself thinking that you fight for whats right and when you are actually out there you go figure that something is wrong and *that* is the thing messing with your mind.

As for loosing your legs and surviving- that is physsical, not psychological. If your body dies and you dont then ofcourse you do not live like you used too.

It's this kind of foolishness that keeps a stigma attached to psychological problems.  This attitude is the reason people are too ashamed to seek help.

When I was in Afghanistan, a sergeant from another unit told me a story.  One young private, good kid, tough as nails, good to have around in a firefight, saw some things that he didn't know how to deal with.  This was before the army wrapped its head around the idea that psychological problems actually needed to be dealt with with more than a kick in the ass and a "suck it up and grow a pair."  He had nobody to talk to, he was afraid his buddies would think he was weak, and the nightmares wouldn't stop.  So he went to each of his buddies' rooms in the barracks and had a beer with them.  Then he went back to his own room and hanged himself with an extension cord. 

If you don't think something like this belongs in the game, fine.  It may not fit with the gameplay, it might seem a little odd thematically and stylistically, or maybe it would just end up being boring or annoying.  I thought Shepard's character was left underdeveloped, especially in comparison to his teammates, and based on my own experiences I thought this might be an interesting way of shedding some light on just who Shepard really is.  But please don't suggest to me that PTSD is something you can tough your way out of, because you don't have the first clue what you're talking about.

[Ogrek]

Bob5312: I suspect that more players would like to touch on Shepard's background (we only got the one quest and some dialogue changes in the first game), but whether he's going to be the one who has PTSD or a squad member would (which could prove an interesting quest in itself, or at least multiple dialogue trees dealing with it and how Paragon Shep helped the squaddie deal with it... or makes them worse as a Renegade) is another story.

I fear that giving Shepard  PTSD wouldn't work out due to the writers not being able to pull off a convincing portrayal of it without making it all hammy.. which is an argument against it in game especially given that we're the ones controlling him, so having it forced on the player would run counter to some of the RPG philosophies that the game embodies (also discounting the whole 'heroic mime' thing which is why his background's left fairly vague, so the player feels like they're actually playing SHEPARD, rather than just picking options for someone else's character).

Although if we'd had more time to talk with Jack, who definitely has some issues due to the way she was raised... or maybe seen more of this with Kelly beyond that one conversation...

Modifié par Ogrek, 07 mars 2010 - 05:43 .

[Canned Bullets]

What about the Normandy Crash Site when Shepard gets flashbacks in certain areas of the level?

[Trueflow]

Shepard needs more introspection, one way or another. PTSD could be an interesting way to do it. It's something I've thought about before. My Shepard should almost certainly have it: Mindoir, Akuze, the twenty people killed on the Normandy. Add to that Dragon's Teeth and husks, the visions of the Reapers reaping, the Thorian, rampaging Rachni, the brutal Cerberus experiments, robots ruthlessly gunning people down... yeah, I think we admit Shepard has been through some rough stuff. Yet we seen him dancing and drinking the night away in some club without a care in the world. Doesn't feel right.

Imagine it: Having a nightmare, waking up to the concerned face of your lover, having them comfort you, talking about what's troubling you. A good way to make the story intimate, personal.

Now picture, then, after all those touching moments with your "LI" the Reapers kidnap them and slowly start to indoctrinate them. You have to choose: save them or save the galaxy. Either watch the Reapers slowly turn them into a mockery of themselves, making every tender, loving, precious moment between you and them a lie, or save the galaxy. How's that for 'hard' choices? 

Modifié par Trueflow, 07 mars 2010 - 07:05 .

[thegreateski]

Shepard is a "Stirred, not shaken" personality.

Traumatic events won't hold much power over him . . . but things that drag out over long periods of time will (The council denying Reapers, TIM manipulating Shepard, ect.).

Modifié par thegreateski, 07 mars 2010 - 06:22 .

[Bob5312]

Ogrek: thank you for your input. I'm not certain it would work in practice either, it was just an idea.

Trueflow: I like your scenario, I think it's actually quite touching.

thegreatski: technically PTSD has to be triggered by some specific event/events; otherwise it would be depression or anxiety, or a similar mood disorder. Not that that's a bad thing, it's just not PTSD.

[thegreateski]

Bob5312 wrote...

Ogrek: thank you for your input. I'm not certain it would work in practice either, it was just an idea.
Trueflow: I like your scenario, I think it's actually quite touching.
thegreatski: technically PTSD has to be triggered by some specific event/events; otherwise it would be depression or anxiety, or a similar mood disorder. Not that that's a bad thing, it's just not PTSD.

Well that's pretty much it. It's not PTSD but it still bothers(?) him.


Lets be honest. It's a video game. It would not be a fun video game if the main character was an emotional wreck.

[Ogrek]

Bob5312 wrote...

Ogrek: thank you for your input. I'm not certain it would work in practice either, it was just an idea.
Trueflow: I like your scenario, I think it's actually quite touching.
thegreatski: technically PTSD has to be triggered by some specific event/events; otherwise it would be depression or anxiety, or a similar mood disorder. Not that that's a bad thing, it's just not PTSD.

One example could be a slaver victim triggering anytime she or he sees a shouting batarian, for example.

Exploring Shepard's background would be good (although Shepard as a character seems more the type to become introspective than severely stressed out by situations, given how he or she seems to have dealt with the memory of asphyxiating to death, or at least the knowledge they died)... but I'd have to say that we need more quests which deal with it, or at least touch on it, or maybe a squadmate who's got some issues to handle to have it form an interesting tale or sidequest.  Having flashbacks in game is one t hing, but not as interesting as dealing with a quest triggered by the background and possible traumatic situation/scenario.  The Survivor and Colonist backgrounds are perfectly ripe with opportunities for such things, with the Spacer/War Hero apparently having fewer such situations to explore.

Heck, with all the crap Liara's been through with the Shadow Broker...

thegreateski: If he or she's a WHINY emotional wreck, no.  Troubled characters can be interesting... but as a main character, it robs the player of the ability to identify with the character since it has to be forced in there with someone who won't get the reference to begin with.

Modifié par Ogrek, 07 mars 2010 - 06:56 .

[Bob5312]

I'm not suggesting that he be a complete wreck. I just think it would be interesting to see Shepard show the scars of what he's been through. Showing a little vulnerability doesn't make Shepard weak, it makes him human. I think that he's harder to identify with because he lacks this human element, and because we know so little about him. A couple of missions that focus on Shepard and allow us to get to know him better would, I think, help us to identify with him more.

There were missions like this in ME1, though they were brief (there was one in which you had to find a traumatized survivor from the slave raid on Mindoir and talk her out of commiting suicide) and generally focussed on events or other people rather than Shepard him/herself.

So I personally think that giving Shepard some emotional issues to work through would improve the characterization and increase people's emotional investment in the story. This may not be the best way to implement it, but I think it would be interesting.

[Ogrek]

Bob5312 wrote...

I'm not suggesting that he be a complete wreck. I just think it would be interesting to see Shepard show the scars of what he's been through. Showing a little vulnerability doesn't make Shepard weak, it makes him human. I think that he's harder to identify with because he lacks this human element, and because we know so little about him. A couple of missions that focus on Shepard and allow us to get to know him better would, I think, help us to identify with him more.
There were missions like this in ME1, though they were brief (there was one in which you had to find a traumatized survivor from the slave raid on Mindoir and talk her out of commiting suicide) and generally focussed on events or other people rather than Shepard him/herself.
So I personally think that giving Shepard some emotional issues to work through would improve the characterization and increase people's emotional investment in the story. This may not be the best way to implement it, but I think it would be interesting.

No, showing a response doesn't make him weak, but at the same time you have to be careful about how you write it since it takes some control away from the player.  There were two instances of this in ME1: one being how Shepard addressed the Reaper issue to the Council (no matter what choice you took, you never really got a chance to show anything but exasperation) and the other is how Shepard reacted to the Normandy's lockdown and had the almost-kiss with the love interest after sitting back against the lockers.

We also get a few hints of this in some of the dialogue options (look at Tali's "I've been watching you" speech, specifically how she states watching Shepard's expression upon leaving Kaiden or Williams to die on Virmire)... and of course, we get to call his mom up in the Spacer sidequest.  Wish we'd gotten more in terms of dialogue to go with the last which didn't directly relate to the quest though... even just a 'how're things, Mom?' response.

The main issue with the emotional issues Shepard has is that they've mostly dealt with them, per the "I Remember Me" sidequest or how they talk to Toombs in the first game.  The Ruthless background doesn't seem too broken up about sacrificing people on Torpfan, while the War Hero one got the "I did what I had to do" response when Jacob asks about it in the second game.  I suspect any issues at this point will relate either to the romance (which hits rather close to home with the character, and thus the player) or with the Council and any ambivalent feelings that may result from their treatment of Shepard in the first and second games (even if they're replaced).

[Habelo]

Srsly its cause we accept stuff like psychological **** problems that they are there.

You srsly think that the mongols had this instability that american troops have now? Or the huns?



I know why it is so, but then again i know everything

[Nerevar86]

Habelo wrote...

Srsly its cause we accept stuff like psychological **** problems that they are there.
You srsly think that the mongols had this instability that american troops have now? Or the huns?

I know why it is so, but then again i know everything

It's got more to do with society how we react to such things. For a Mongol killing/maiming/making pyramids out of peoples skulls/seeing the dead was how their society worked.....now compare that to todays society which handles violence in a different way. Back then death and violence were the norm.....in todays western society it isn't.

Edit on topic:
That would at the LEAST give Yeoman Chambers a use.....except feeding the fish.

Character development for Shepard? Check.
Expanding on background? Check.
IF dream-sequence of psychological background bringing forth an awesome mission? HELL YEAH CHECK!

I think this speaks for itself

Modifié par Nerevar86, 07 mars 2010 - 01:52 .

[Alphyn]

Great idea, though I think it should only happen once or twice during the entire game. I don't want another Fry Cry 2 (loved the game, but it was annoying at times).

[azaana]

I thought that Shepard just blocked out the bad things he's done and concentrated on the end game. Like tunnel vision, but it would be hard to show the effects this is having on him without changeing the feel of the game compleately.

[CaptainZaysh]

Bob5312 wrote...

I was actually referring to the Canadian military, but it's not too far off for the American military either.  The figure of 0.0195% for civilians is for the 'males aged 18 to 24' demographic; the overall suicide rate in the United States was about 0.011%.  

You sure?  Wikipedia says it was 0.017% in 2005.  I seriously doubt the suicide rate has dropped by a third in 3 years.  I think you may be working from bad info.

It seems to me the suicide rates for civilians and soldiers are pretty much the same, especially when you consider the army is mainly made up of armed, stressed out young men.

Bob5312 wrote...
Bear in mind that soldiers are screened for mental health issues prior to enlistment and receive regular screening while serving and have access to far better care and treatment than civilians.

I don't know why you think that's the case, but that definitely wasn't my experience of serving in the infantry.

EDIT: oh, you served.  I guess the Canadian army has better systems than the British one for coping with this problem.  Well done for surviving Afghanistan.  

Modifié par CaptainZaysh, 07 mars 2010 - 02:50 .

[Bob5312]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Bob5312 wrote...

I was actually referring to the Canadian military, but it's not too far off for the American military either.  The figure of 0.0195% for civilians is for the 'males aged 18 to 24' demographic; the overall suicide rate in the United States was about 0.011%.  

You sure?  Wikipedia says it was 0.017% in 2005.  I seriously doubt the suicide rate has dropped by a third in 3 years.  I think you may be working from bad info.

It seems to me the suicide rates for civilians and soldiers are pretty much the same, especially when you consider the army is mainly made up of armed, stressed out young men.

Bob5312 wrote...
Bear in mind that soldiers are screened for mental health issues prior to enlistment and receive regular screening while serving and have access to far better care and treatment than civilians.

I don't know why you think that's the case, but that definitely wasn't my experience of serving in the infantry.

EDIT: oh, you served.  I guess the Canadian army has better systems than the British one for coping with this problem.  Well done for surviving Afghanistan.  

Wikipedia gets its info on suicide rates from the WHO, which gives the figure of 0.017% for men specifically, and the US military is about 20% female.  The overall suicide rate (men and women of all ages) was 0.011% in the United States in 2005.  The stress of continual combat operations is also demonstrated by the fact that the military suicide rate has doubled since 2002, and is higher than the civilian rate for young men for the first time since the Vietnam war.  I'm using American data because the Canadian military doesn't keep track of many of these statistics. 

We base our mental health screening process on the American system (to the point of using their instructional videos).  I had three pre-deployment mental health screenings (two with a social worker and one with a Chaplain), the Chaplain came by every once in awhile to check on us while I was deployed, and then I went through three days of lectures on mental health and 'reintegration stress' immediately after leaving Afghanistan.  I also had screenings at one month, three months, and six months after I got back. 

@Habelo: Yes, I do think the Mongols had these problems.  There is historical evidence for much of this going back several thousand years, including an Athenian soldier whose PTSD was so bad after the battle of Marathon that he went blind.  Ignoring problems like these does not make them go away or cease to exist; during the Vietnam war most of these psychological problems were not recognized and the failure to properly treat them has caused a great deal of suffering for veterans of that conflict.

On the topic: Don't take my suggestion at the beginning of Shepard drinking himself to sleep every night too seriously.  This is, unfortunately, an all-too-common way for soldiers to deal with their problems, and I made the comment more to draw attention to the real-life consequences of combat trauma than as a serious gameplay suggestion.

[EmperorSahlertz]

While PTSD is an interesting theme to explore in a game, Shepard just doesn't strike me as a guy who would ever suffer from it. Some people are just born to be soldiers or other stressful and/or traumatizing proffessions, and Shepard is certainly born to be a soldier.

[Sphaerus]

tl;dr



Not everyone gets PTSD. It's definitely a real "thing", but it's not like everyone who goes through **** is doomed to come out shell-shocked.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

My Shepard, Rick (Richard) Shepard, was raised on Earth, orphan with gangs. Then the military life changed him into a better person. Then came Akuze and he swore to be the best captain/commander and soldier he could be. He's a Paragon with some few Renegade attitudes. He honors the dead but he leaves them there. The living ones are who really matters.



Interesting that in the very beginning of ME1 there's that conversation with Ashley where you can choose your point of view for Jenkins death.



Besides, Shepard itself has the whole LIVING galaxy depending on him to ever think about the gone.