387 réponses à ce sujet

[mossfoot]

Blackveldt wrote...

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

So weird to read people saying "romancing your best friend" like it's a bad thing.

Mm, that's because it's never happened to you.
Biggest mistake ever

Hey, worked for me.  Together 10 years, married 2.

Relationship mistakes are relative  (though relationships with relatives are always mistakes  )

[Ray Joel Oh]

Blackveldt wrote...

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

So weird to read people saying "romancing your best friend" like it's a bad thing.

Mm, that's because it's never happened to you.
Biggest mistake ever

Well I can understand you being personally soured by a bad experience, but I've had many good ones, and some of the best relationships and marriages among my friends started out as friendships.  Just saying.

IccaRa wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

These
threads will never die.  A fair amount of gamers like f/f romances and
there wasn't one in ME2....so they're not going to be pleased with any
of the dudes offered no matter what.

Which is
irrelevant. The lack of f/f is in no way these characters fault. They
have nothing to do with it. You don't have to romance them. Simple as
that.

It's like looking at a basket of apples and saying "This
basket has no oranges!" and then looking for reasons to hate the apples
because they are not oranges. What the heck? The apples were never
TRYING to be oranges. It's not their fault you didn't get an orange.
It's projection.

And let's be frank, most people who come to
these boards saying "OMG FEMALE SHEPARD ROMANCES SUUUCK WHERE IS MY F/F
OPTION B'AAAAAWWW" are not genuinely interested in the depth of a f/f
romance, nor are they lesbians -- they are straight guys who are
butthurt that they can't get an OMG TEH LESBIANZ scene in ME2 so now
their buxom FemShep has no purpose because, let's face it, one of the
only reasons they even made one was to get the OMG TEH LESBIANZ scene
with Liara in ME1.

Just sayin'. As far as those types of
complaints go, I am content to cackle wildly while lounging in a pile
of smoking hot malien men.

I need you to know that I love you.

[IccaRa]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

 With that said, I don't want to go talk to Garrus and have a conversation and then suddenly I'm telling him he has a tight butt or something. 

LOL.

[epoch_]

IccaRa wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

These threads will never die.  A fair amount of gamers like f/f romances and there wasn't one in ME2....so they're not going to be pleased with any of the dudes offered no matter what.

Which is irrelevant. The lack of f/f is in no way these characters fault. They have nothing to do with it. You don't have to romance them. Simple as that.

It's like looking at a basket of apples and saying "This basket has no oranges!" and then looking for reasons to hate the apples because they are not oranges. What the heck? The apples were never TRYING to be oranges. It's not their fault you didn't get an orange. It's projection.

And let's be frank, most people who come to these boards saying "OMG FEMALE SHEPARD ROMANCES SUUUCK WHERE IS MY F/F OPTION B'AAAAAWWW" are not genuinely interested in the depth of a f/f romance, nor are they lesbians -- they are straight guys who are butthurt that they can't get an OMG TEH LESBIANZ scene in ME2 so now their buxom FemShep has no purpose because, let's face it, one of the only reasons they even made one was to get the OMG TEH LESBIANZ scene with Liara in ME1.

Just sayin'. As far as those types of complaints go, I am content to cackle wildly while lounging in a pile of smoking hot malien men.

a lot of truthiness here.

[MarginalBeast]

Blackveldt wrote...

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

So weird to read people saying "romancing your best friend" like it's a bad thing.

Mm, that's because it's never happened to you.
Biggest mistake ever

Okay, so what? Just because you had a bad experience with it doesn't mean that everyone does. Some of the most successful relationships I've seen started out as good friends that evolved into something more.

Modifié par MarginalBeast, 07 mars 2010 - 10:09 .

[jlb524]

IccaRa wrote...

Which is irrelevant. The lack of f/f is in no way these characters fault. They have nothing to do with it. You don't have to romance them. Simple as that.

That's my point.  Objectively, all these romances are the same.  The male options could be the best romances ever written and some (including myself) still aren't going to like them just b/c they're male.  I want to play a romance that reflects who I am (a lesbian) hence I can't get into the straight ones with either a dudeShep or femShep.

IccaRa wrote...

And let's be frank, most people who come to these boards saying "OMG FEMALE SHEPARD ROMANCES SUUUCK WHERE IS MY F/F OPTION B'AAAAAWWW" are not genuinely interested in the depth of a f/f romance, nor are they lesbians -- they are straight guys who are butthurt that they can't get an OMG TEH LESBIANZ scene in ME2 so now their buxom FemShep has no purpose because, let's face it, one of the only reasons they even made one was to get the OMG TEH LESBIANZ scene with Liara in ME1.

Yes, but there are actual bisexual and gay women who want these options as well.  We get forgotten about amidst all the fighting and arguing over the inclusion of f/f options and the counter-argument against it:   'straight guys are the ones that want the lesbians so BW shouldn't include it' crap that goes on.  ME2 actually includes gratitious lesbians for these guys (FemShep/Kelly) however most people wanting the f/f option are still upset b/c they want a meaningful/substantial f/f romance and not the cabin dancing stuff we get from Kelly.

[superimposed]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

IccaRa wrote...

Yeah, it's such a shame that FemSheps get to choose between chiseled abs, silver-smooth space ninjas and scarred-up studs. It's such a shame that she can finally taste the alien and racial rainbow in ways ManShep only wishes he could. Such a shame that all the options are different and appeal to a variety she's never had before, like a galactic buffet of hawt. Such a shame that they all express genuine interest in her. Such a shame that none of them have to rely on pink lasers and mind magic to please her. Such a shame.

Thank you, Finally a voice of reason and common sense.  See you girl gamers got it made.  Garrus, Jacob, and Thane are alot better than Miranda, Tali, and Jack.  You just have to put things in perspective.:wizard:Now lets quit whining and close this thread.

I don't think anyone wins.

Seriously, all the romances in ME:2 play out like either Pent House or Mills and Boon. Neither are quality literature.

[superimposed]

jlb524 wrote...

IccaRa wrote...

Which is irrelevant. The lack of f/f is in no way these characters fault. They have nothing to do with it. You don't have to romance them. Simple as that.

That's my point.  Objectively, all these romances are the same.  The male options could be the best romances ever written and some (including myself) still aren't going to like them just b/c they're male.  I want to play a romance that reflects who I am (a lesbian) hence I can't get into the straight ones with either a dudeShep or femShep.

IccaRa wrote...

And let's be frank, most people who come to these boards saying "OMG FEMALE SHEPARD ROMANCES SUUUCK WHERE IS MY F/F OPTION B'AAAAAWWW" are not genuinely interested in the depth of a f/f romance, nor are they lesbians -- they are straight guys who are butthurt that they can't get an OMG TEH LESBIANZ scene in ME2 so now their buxom FemShep has no purpose because, let's face it, one of the only reasons they even made one was to get the OMG TEH LESBIANZ scene with Liara in ME1.

Yes, but there are actual bisexual and gay women who want these options as well.  We get forgotten about amidst all the fighting and arguing over the inclusion of f/f options and the counter-argument against it:   'straight guys are the ones that want the lesbians so BW shouldn't include it' crap that goes on.  ME2 actually includes gratitious lesbians for these guys (FemShep/Kelly) however most people wanting the f/f option are still upset b/c they want a meaningful/substantial f/f romance and not the cabin dancing stuff we get from Kelly.

That's not even gratuitous to be honest. It's actually a little.. well, it's just the stripper at Afterlife all over again.

[LOLandStuff]

Jacob looked much better in ME Galaxy. They should have left him bald and not made him a clone of Kanye West. But then he would have looked like Mace Windu...huh, they do look the same somehow.

[DaeJi]

IccaRa wrote...


It's like looking at a basket of apples and saying "This basket has no oranges!" and then looking for reasons to hate the apples because they are not oranges. What the heck? The apples were never TRYING to be oranges. It's not their fault you didn't get an orange. It's projection.

I can see your point, what I don't believe that, in context, it applies to Mass Effect. The first game game female players Liara; whether you want to argue if Asari are female or not, they look female at least. Visual, it was a lesbian relationship. It's like getting a basket of apples, and then all of a sudden having the apples taken away. Looking at the company as a whole, with their last three games before Mass Effect 2 BioWare included homosexual romances. To go with your analogy, they are a company who sells apple and orange baskets, but then took out the oranges suddenly from one basket, and people noticed.

[jlb524]

superimposed wrote...


That's not even gratuitous to be honest. It's actually a little.. well, it's just the stripper at Afterlife all over again.

It's gratuitious in the sense that it just seemed tacked on to Kelly's character to give some cheap f/f kicks.   Kelly didn't have to be bisexual or even interested in Commander Shepard regardless of gender.  She didn't even have to exist in the game period.   She serves no valuable purpose, IMO.

[DaeJi]

jlb524 wrote...
It's gratuitious in the sense that it just seemed tacked on to Kelly's character to give some cheap f/f kicks.   Kelly didn't have to be bisexual or even interested in Commander Shepard regardless of gender.  She didn't even have to exist in the game period.   She serves no valuable purpose, IMO.

She did point out who the romance options were though.

















And she feed your fish.

[jlb524]

DaeJi wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
It's gratuitious in the sense that it just seemed tacked on to Kelly's character to give some cheap f/f kicks.   Kelly didn't have to be bisexual or even interested in Commander Shepard regardless of gender.  She didn't even have to exist in the game period.   She serves no valuable purpose, IMO.

She did point out who the romance options were though.

I wish she would've pointed out some of the ladies for me instead of the guys.     Kelly can't do anything right <_<

[IccaRa]

jlb524 wrote...

That's my point.  Objectively, all these romances are the same.  The male options could be the best romances ever written and some (including myself) still aren't going to like them just b/c they're male.  I want to play a romance that reflects who I am (a lesbian) hence I can't get into the straight ones with either a dudeShep or femShep.

Nobody is asking you to like the male romances, though. It's fine to not like them because they're male and you're simply not interested in males. What is not fine is looking for reasons to prop up your disinterest and harping on how awful the male romances and/or male characters are because they have the gall (the GALL!) to not have ovaries.

Maybe I'm not explaining my point well. There is a difference between this:

"I'm not interested in men, so the male romances don't appeal to me. Not my taste."

And this:

"I'm not interested in men, so the male romances and characters suck and are awful and I will persist in belittling and complaining about them indefinitely. FUUU THANE/JACOB/GARRUS ARE SUCH TOOLS THEIR ROMANCES ARE TOOLS FUUUUU FUUUU BOOBS."

The former is not liking something for genuine, honest reasons. There is no need to prop up your dislike with extraneous nonsense.

The latter is propping up your dislike with extraneous and irrelevant nonsense. You don't have to like or dislike something at the expense of something else. It's like you're trying to justify your dislike of the male romances when you don't need to.

(When I say "you/your" I don't mean you, jlb!)

Yes, but there are actual bisexual and gay women who want these options as well.

I know, that's why I said "most."

Modifié par IccaRa, 07 mars 2010 - 10:33 .

[Aniki_21]

Calsong wrote...

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...

Calsong wrote...

I'm playing through second time as a female Shepard and find my options for a romance is Thane the lizard man, the armor skinned Garrus, or Jacob the black guy

The Angry One wrote...

Eh, to me all the ME2 LIs are somewhat lacklustre.
Thane is too manufactured, Jacob is... ugh, a black guy..

Fixed.

Very rude of you to change my quote so it looks like I wrote your biggot opinions. I suggest you F**k off. 

Lets be honest folks. If Jacob being black was factor as to why he is clearly the least liked love interest if not the least liked squad member in the game, would anyone actually admit it? Perhaps it may even be a subconcious thing for some people.  Just imagine Jacob as a smooth, handsome white guy with the same killer bod. I honestly thing he'd be a  lot more popular.  He's often compared to Kaiden as being too normal and boring yet Kaiden  still gets far more love than Jacob does.

Modifié par Aniki_21, 07 mars 2010 - 10:31 .

[IccaRa]

DaeJi wrote...

I can see your point, what I don't believe that, in context, it applies to Mass Effect. The first game game female players Liara; whether you want to argue if Asari are female or not, they look female at least. Visual, it was a lesbian relationship. It's like getting a basket of apples, and then all of a sudden having the apples taken away. Looking at the company as a whole, with their last three games before Mass Effect 2 BioWare included homosexual romances. To go with your analogy, they are a company who sells apple and orange baskets, but then took out the oranges suddenly from one basket, and people noticed.

But they didn't take that away. Liara is still present and still a romance (ignoring the herp derp treatment of the ME1 LIs for a moment.) FemShep doesn't lose her. And while not the same, there is still Samara/Morinth/Kelly/Whatever to at least allude to some semblance of sexuality in the game. MaleShep doesn't even get that.

BioWare never promised consistent f/f relationships in their games, much less ME2. This is more a fault of players assuming something and then not getting it, which is... the players fault, really. And on the other end of the spectrum most players never dreamed we'd get malien romance and BAM, we got two! That was unexpected and unprecedented. But who knows? Maybe we won't get a single alien LI in ME3.

[jlb524]

I have no problems with the male romances as characters and I don't complain about them in that way (I haven't formed an opinion on those romances honestly). If Jacob's romance is boring then so is Miranda's (they're basically the same romance, objectively speaking). All six romances are what you'd expect from a Mass Effect game as far as depth of writing.



What I will complain about is the exclusion of an f/f and m/m option. The f/f one affects me on a more personal level then the m/m one does of course, but I also believe the m/m option should be added for fairness.

[superimposed]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
That's my point.  Objectively, all these romances are the same.  The male options could be the best romances ever written and some (including myself) still aren't going to like them just b/c they're male.  I want to play a romance that reflects who I am (a lesbian) hence I can't get into the straight ones with either a dudeShep or femShep.

Ok, what about everything else.  I may want TIM to be black, or I think that there should be more Asians in the crew.  How about Commander Shep's voice?  I think Mark Meer should sound less masculine.  I want to be able to play a game that reflects who I am.
Where does it end?   

With the absurd.

It's easy to create F/F relationships without destroying the game or resorting to making it nothing but eye candy for fifteen year olds.  

[yoshibb]

My question is, why is so hard to understand that some people may not find a fishman and a talking dinosaur attractive? If we are just basing everything on looks, at least with Tali, you can make up whatever face you want, not to mention the female like form. Liara is practically a blue human. Is it so hard to understand why some people might not find drells and turians attractive? I wasn't really interested in their looks either, but when I went deeper and just looked at their personalities, I still wasn't attracted to them. I mean I really tried, but I just couldn't get into the romances.



Can't you see that there might be some sort of frustration for some people if you aren't really interested in aliens that look like that. You're then just left with Jacob. Just saying.

[Kinvarus]

The first time I went through with a femshep I went with Garrus, Jacob didn't even enter the equation, I did it becuase Garrus seemed like the most likly choice after everything the two have been through, plus I think it'll be cool to see Garrus and Kaidan have a punch up over her in ME 3

[IccaRa]

People aren't interested in Jacob as a romance not because of his skin color but because he's emotionally constipated. He could be as white as the throbbing center of a star gone nova and it wouldn't matter because you'd still want to beat your head in on the corner of the armory table after some of his lines.



(FWIW I actually like Jacob as a character and am glad his romance works for some people. Even if it's not my favorite, that doesn't mean I dislike it for what it is.)