Zemore wrote...
what the hell is it with people and trading in games your actually throwing money at Gamestop you arent coming off the better from that deal they are
thats exactly why i know its true i worked in a game store too and my manager was always likeJaegerBane wrote...
Zemore wrote...
what the hell is it with people and trading in games your actually throwing money at Gamestop you arent coming off the better from that deal they are
I'd like to know that too. I used to work in a games store when I was a student and the level of rip off people ended up with was epic.
Modifié par Zemore, 06 mars 2010 - 04:27 .
ZennExile wrote...
And that my friends is why the western gaming industry is stagnating into this dumbed down "retard mode" version of everything. The same reason our education system is broken. We try to make everything appeal to too many people and in the end, the only way to do that is to appeal to the most incredibly stupid people you can imagine.
Karstedt wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
And that my friends is why the western gaming industry is stagnating into this dumbed down "retard mode" version of everything. The same reason our education system is broken. We try to make everything appeal to too many people and in the end, the only way to do that is to appeal to the most incredibly stupid people you can imagine.
I can pretty much agree with that part. Even though the 'combat' experience was improved in ME2 vs ME1, I definitely felt the gameplay suffer overall as a result dumb-down mechanics (some people like to call it smoother and action packed). Though the story, unverse and characters are still captivating. So while overall gameplay wise, I didn't enjoy it as much as ME1, I'm still hooked on the story.
The industry is definitely stagnating here though. Outside of a few select developers, most of the best designed games I've played in the last 8 years have come from outside the US, most notebly Russia (wish I spoke and read Russian so I could get more involved with a few of my favorites that have little English speaking popularity). Their lack of polish (not to be confused with Polish) and funding has hindered their potential though.
Multifarious Algorithm wrote...
Man when will people learn that RPG does not actually imply, or in anyway require "setting your numbers to determine what you can do" - as that is the lamest part of RPGs. Ditto inventory management in 99% of all games (X-Com being the exception).Bioware - keep doing what you do!
BioWare
Multifarious Algorithm wrote...
Man when will people learn that RPG does not actually imply, or in anyway require "setting your numbers to determine what you can do" - as that is the lamest part of RPGs.
Ditto inventory management in 99% of all games (X-Com being the exception).
ZennExile wrote...
Why do people always go for the weapons no matter what the topic of reply is...?
RPGs are defined not by specific elements, but a combination of elements. A total weight and scope of accepted RPG elements. The amount of each isn't important. The complexity and depth of the system they are part of is. ME2 is marketed as an RPG to RPG fans as a sequel to a Hugely Popular RPG. Yet it has a very limited pool of RPG elements to draw from. Story is not an RPG element, it's a multi genre element. So you can't use it to give weight to the RPG value. No matter how EPIC you are duped into believing the story is.
You have character creation.
Character development.
Dialogue choice.
Personal Virtual Space.
That's pretty much it for RPG elements... And considering character creation is also a solid canidate for the "multi-genre" title ... You have nothing but character development, dialogue choice and a Captains Cabin you can upgrade to really call RPG elements in this game.
Now since RPG is a measure of the whole and a reflection of the depth in that whole system, you'd think ME2 would make up for such a small pool of elements with a deep meaningful and overall EPIC combination of them. Yet again we are left with extremely linear and limited character development in terms of using a point system to unlock skills. (Which is also becoming a common shooter element...) Dialogue choices that really have no tangeble effect on the plot of the game and are based on a polar extreme good/evil scale with the depth of Dr. Sues story... And then we get to the epic "SPACE HAMPSTER" and a cool fishtank.
Oh you do get to see some kinky alien love makin right? Nope not this time fellahs. Not only that but we can't allow yer femshep to nail the obviously and admittedly bisexual members of the crew.... Because we want you to take this shallow excuse for a console money grab seriously...
That's why people don't think it's RPG enough. And that is why cover shooter mechanics aren't enough to make up for it. There is no wieght to the RPG elements that do exist AND they are few in number. So technically it's not even an RPG by industry standards.
intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
Why do people always go for the weapons no matter what the topic of reply is...?
RPGs are defined not by specific elements, but a combination of elements. A total weight and scope of accepted RPG elements. The amount of each isn't important. The complexity and depth of the system they are part of is. ME2 is marketed as an RPG to RPG fans as a sequel to a Hugely Popular RPG. Yet it has a very limited pool of RPG elements to draw from. Story is not an RPG element, it's a multi genre element. So you can't use it to give weight to the RPG value. No matter how EPIC you are duped into believing the story is.
You have character creation.
Character development.
Dialogue choice.
Personal Virtual Space.
That's pretty much it for RPG elements... And considering character creation is also a solid canidate for the "multi-genre" title ... You have nothing but character development, dialogue choice and a Captains Cabin you can upgrade to really call RPG elements in this game.
Now since RPG is a measure of the whole and a reflection of the depth in that whole system, you'd think ME2 would make up for such a small pool of elements with a deep meaningful and overall EPIC combination of them. Yet again we are left with extremely linear and limited character development in terms of using a point system to unlock skills. (Which is also becoming a common shooter element...) Dialogue choices that really have no tangeble effect on the plot of the game and are based on a polar extreme good/evil scale with the depth of Dr. Sues story... And then we get to the epic "SPACE HAMPSTER" and a cool fishtank.
Oh you do get to see some kinky alien love makin right? Nope not this time fellahs. Not only that but we can't allow yer femshep to nail the obviously and admittedly bisexual members of the crew.... Because we want you to take this shallow excuse for a console money grab seriously...
That's why people don't think it's RPG enough. And that is why cover shooter mechanics aren't enough to make up for it. There is no wieght to the RPG elements that do exist AND they are few in number. So technically it's not even an RPG by industry standards.
You just said RPG draw from a pool of four elements yet attributed 3 of them to ME2 except character creation, which since this is a sequel, makes sense with what they're trying to do with continuation of a previous character (which you can define as a new rpg element, completely new and unique). But you did say it was a measure of the depth of the whole, so I will forsake that argument, and submit to you Fallout 3 for analysis, which I've never heard of anyone claiming it was not an RPG, which is nearly identical in linearity (yeah its open world, but you can't exactly walk across a galaxy) you get one important end-game choice clean the water or clean and purge it similar to whether you kepp the collector base or not. It ends nearly the same either way. Also a points skill system (which is an RPG element first all the way back to D&D, which shooters are borrowing more and more). I'm not addressing the "kinky alien love makin", because, well, seriously? And many interviews with devs in the industry say there is no end all definition to RPG anymore.
ZennExile wrote...
Did I say those were the only 4 elements or did you assume that so you could try and argue something you know makes absolutley no sense?
ZennExile wrote...
You have character creation.
Character development.
Dialogue choice.
Personal Virtual Space.
That's pretty much it for RPG elements...
Maybe use context to attempt to answer that question for yourself?intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
Did I say those were the only 4 elements or did you assume that so you could try and argue something you know makes absolutley no sense?ZennExile wrote...
You have character creation.
Character development.
Dialogue choice.
Personal Virtual Space.
That's pretty much it for RPG elements...
Unless you meant that was all ME had?
ZennExile wrote...
Maybe use context to attempt to answer that question for yourself?intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
Did I say those were the only 4 elements or did you assume that so you could try and argue something you know makes absolutley no sense?ZennExile wrote...
You have character creation.
Character development.
Dialogue choice.
Personal Virtual Space.
That's pretty much it for RPG elements...
Unless you meant that was all ME had?
Modifié par intersect, 06 mars 2010 - 05:17 .
tbh i think its as good to clasify it as an rpg as any ... do you play the role of shepard to you make the choices you make personal? do you do things each playthrough because for you there is NO other way. Saying its not like every other RPG in the universe is a good thing if you ask me.intersect wrote...
Maybe use context to attempt to answer that question for yourself?
You know what , I concede that it isn't an RPG like as some or even most people define it. You are right. I enjoy most genres so I enjoyed the game as a whole, which gaming for me is honestly mostly about the story and immersion anyway. I feel like ME2 has just enough elements of either genre to be one of my most favorite games. Do I think its perfect? No, of course not, but it's a hell of a ride and I can't wait for the next one, no matter what they keep/change.
Modifié par Zemore, 06 mars 2010 - 05:36 .
intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
Maybe use context to attempt to answer that question for yourself?intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
Did I say those were the only 4 elements or did you assume that so you could try and argue something you know makes absolutley no sense?ZennExile wrote...
You have character creation.
Character development.
Dialogue choice.
Personal Virtual Space.
That's pretty much it for RPG elements...
Unless you meant that was all ME had?
You know what , I concede that it isn't an RPG like as some or even most people define it. You are right. I enjoy most genres so I enjoyed the game as a whole, which gaming for me is honestly mostly about the story and immersion anyway. I feel like ME2 has just enough elements of either genre to be one of my most favorite games. Do I think its perfect? No, of course not, but it's a hell of a ride and I can't wait for the next one, no matter what they keep/change.
SurfaceBeneath wrote...
Posting in a troll thread!
SurfaceBeneath wrote...
Trolling in a post thread!
QFT. His blatant trolling burns my eyes...Skilled Seeker wrote...
Don't feed the troll peeps. And ZennIdiot trade in ME2 then and leave these forums already. We are tired of your BS.
ZennExile wrote...
intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
Maybe use context to attempt to answer that question for yourself?intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
Did I say those were the only 4 elements or did you assume that so you could try and argue something you know makes absolutley no sense?ZennExile wrote...
You have character creation.
Character development.
Dialogue choice.
Personal Virtual Space.
That's pretty much it for RPG elements...
Unless you meant that was all ME had?
You know what , I concede that it isn't an RPG like as some or even most people define it. You are right. I enjoy most genres so I enjoyed the game as a whole, which gaming for me is honestly mostly about the story and immersion anyway. I feel like ME2 has just enough elements of either genre to be one of my most favorite games. Do I think its perfect? No, of course not, but it's a hell of a ride and I can't wait for the next one, no matter what they keep/change.
Subjectively the game is as good as any other game. But objectively you have to look at how it was marketed and to whom.
How many people bought ME2 thinking it was an RPG? How many of them thought it would be a continuation of the highly successful RPG Mass Effect.?
When you really step back and think things through from behing the fanboi marker, you have to wonder how many people bought into ME2 expecting something completely different. And you have to wonder just how many of them were happy about it.
Don't hide like a crying child. Grow up.darknoon5 wrote...
I enjoy being on the bandwagon because it makes me feel safe from all the mean things people would otherwise say to me on the internet.
Bandwagon>your posts.ZennExile wrote...
Don't hide like a crying child. Grow up.darknoon5 wrote...
I enjoy being on the bandwagon because it makes me feel safe from all the mean things people would otherwise say to me on the internet.
intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
Maybe use context to attempt to answer that question for yourself?intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
Did I say those were the only 4 elements or did you assume that so you could try and argue something you know makes absolutley no sense?ZennExile wrote...
You have character creation.
Character development.
Dialogue choice.
Personal Virtual Space.
That's pretty much it for RPG elements...
Unless you meant that was all ME had?
You know what , I concede that it isn't an RPG like as some or even most people define it. You are right. I enjoy most genres so I enjoyed the game as a whole, which gaming for me is honestly mostly about the story and immersion anyway. I feel like ME2 has just enough elements of either genre to be one of my most favorite games. Do I think its perfect? No, of course not, but it's a hell of a ride and I can't wait for the next one, no matter what they keep/change.
Subjectively the game is as good as any other game. But objectively you have to look at how it was marketed and to whom.
How many people bought ME2 thinking it was an RPG? How many of them thought it would be a continuation of the highly successful RPG Mass Effect.?
When you really step back and think things through from behing the fanboi marker, you have to wonder how many people bought into ME2 expecting something completely different. And you have to wonder just how many of them were happy about it.
True, that's why I read the reviews, I knew about the stripped down/streamlined mechanics before hand, but decided that wasn't a reason for me to not get the game, everyone has the option of getting more info and being a responsible consumer. Just like the criticism on people for selling back to gamestop for convenience, if you really wanted to be careful, read reviews, even rent games before buying them.
Modifié par ZennExile, 06 mars 2010 - 05:41 .
ZennExile wrote...
intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
Maybe use context to attempt to answer that question for yourself?intersect wrote...
ZennExile wrote...
Did I say those were the only 4 elements or did you assume that so you could try and argue something you know makes absolutley no sense?ZennExile wrote...
You have character creation.
Character development.
Dialogue choice.
Personal Virtual Space.
That's pretty much it for RPG elements...
Unless you meant that was all ME had?
You know what , I concede that it isn't an RPG like as some or even most people define it. You are right. I enjoy most genres so I enjoyed the game as a whole, which gaming for me is honestly mostly about the story and immersion anyway. I feel like ME2 has just enough elements of either genre to be one of my most favorite games. Do I think its perfect? No, of course not, but it's a hell of a ride and I can't wait for the next one, no matter what they keep/change.
Subjectively the game is as good as any other game. But objectively you have to look at how it was marketed and to whom.
How many people bought ME2 thinking it was an RPG? How many of them thought it would be a continuation of the highly successful RPG Mass Effect.?
When you really step back and think things through from behing the fanboi marker, you have to wonder how many people bought into ME2 expecting something completely different. And you have to wonder just how many of them were happy about it.
True, that's why I read the reviews, I knew about the stripped down/streamlined mechanics before hand, but decided that wasn't a reason for me to not get the game, everyone has the option of getting more info and being a responsible consumer. Just like the criticism on people for selling back to gamestop for convenience, if you really wanted to be careful, read reviews, even rent games before buying them.
Reviews aren't reliable. Most of them are cleverly disguised ad space and fully paid for. And unfortunatley for Bioware it has come to that. Renting or "Stealing"(renting with the intent to refuse payment if it sucks) the game are required security checks because Bioware can no longer be trusted to not abuse marketting gimmicks to sell a product to customers who wouldn't otherwise want it.
kraidy1117 wrote...
Sigh, Zenn why are all your posts so relavent to how people feel about Mass Effect 2. Mine always suck and have no relavence whatsoever...
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