166 réponses à ce sujet

[smokey_bacon]

ok not to sound sarcastic or anything but what would you suggest to remedy the soldiers reliance on ammunition?

this was always going to be the case and lets be honest has anyone out there actually ever run out of ammo with a soldier? even without the revanants 1500 or so rounds ive never come close

[swk3000]

I'm not trying to come up with ideas to fix it; I'm trying to see if anyone agrees. So far, no-one does, and I'm either crazy, or I suck at the game.



And I've run out of ammo quite a bit, but only 1 or 2 of those times was with my Assault Rifle.

[Athenau]

You seem to be under the misapprehension that weapon damage and power damage are on the same footing.

An example of how high the soldier's burst damage can go:

Heightened AR gives you +140%. AP ammo gives you +70%. Commando gives you +15% weapon damage, and the 15% power damage boost applies to both AP ammo and heightened AR. A headshot gives you +100%. Weapon upgrades give you +50%. The sniper rifle headshot bonus is another +50%. In total you've got + 456.5% in bonuses.

The Widow does 368.3 damage per shot. With your bonuses that's 2049.6 damage. Instantly. And that's just to health. You can multiply that number by 1.5 if you're hitting an armored target (actually more, since the first SR research grants another +50% bonus to armor).

That's the tradeoff for limited ammo. Damage.

Modifié par Athenau, 06 mars 2010 - 05:09 .

[swk3000]

Athenau wrote...

You seem to be under the misapprehension that weapon damage and power damage are on the same footing.

An example of how high the soldier's burst damage can go:

Heightened AR gives you +140%. AP ammo gives you +70%. Commando gives you +15% weapon damage, and the 15% power damage boost applies to both AP ammo and heightened AR. A headshot gives you +100%. Weapon upgrades give you +50%. The sniper rifle headshot bonus is another +50%. In total you've got + 456.5% in bonuses.

The Widow does 386.3 damage per shot. With your bonuses that's 2049.6 damage. Instantly. And that's just to health. You can multiply that number by 1.5 if you're hitting an armored target (actually more, since the first SR research grants another +50% bonus to armor).

That's the tradeoff for limited ammo. Damage.

That's about what I figured on doing with the Soldier I'm currently running through Insanity with. It's actually a pretty solid setup. However, I haven't been including it in consideration for the purposes of this setup because of the low ammo capacity of the Mantis. I've been looking at consistency, and the Mantis generally doesn't even last through a single fight. Oh, I have about 10 dead enemies because of it, so it's thinned the ranks a bit, but the low ammo removed it from consideration. In fact, the only real weapon with any sort of 'endurance' is the Assault Rifle. Everything else tends to lack the ammo to make it through a fight.

However, you shouldn't take that as me tossing your information aside. As I said: I've got a Soldier built around it. However, for the purposes of this discussion, Sniper Rifles aren't being considered.

[Athenau]

If you want endurance and amazing dps at all ranges, pick the Revenant + Viper. You'll never run out of ammo and you'll shred anything in your path.

[Lord_Elessar]

yea my vanguard playthrough is easier and less painful than the soldier



soldier I had to hide behind barricades, mow down the respawning enemies, which with vanguard you can stop the trigger if you advance far enough (7 times out of 10). Problem with soldier on insanity is really just spawn triggers I think... by the end of the game once you have the revenant, you'll mow down pretty much any kind of enemy by yourself, although party composition does help.



Another problem is no reliable way of regen'ing health quickly, since you are rate-dependent with HAR on health. So boost health, and regen (collector's armor seems to be the best). Only problems I had places with soldier were Horizon (last encounter, didn't die, but took a long time cause a lot of kiting and no more medi gel for allies), Collector ship (yes vanguard kills the collector ship 4x faster than the soldier... EASILY and you don't lose your allies in the process), and Tali's recruitment (until I figured out to go on the right side).



I don't think the soldier's damage is the problem.

[gauntz]

I don't understand how you run out of ammo with everything but an assualt rifle every battle. I'm playing a Vanguard on insanity now, and I very rarely get forced to switch from shotgun due to a lack of ammo, even before I got the shotgun extra rounds upgrade, and was running with Eviscerator/10 round Claymore. I imagine the less mobile way of playing with a sniper makes getting more ammo harder on occasion, but it's not as though it's impossible.



I'm probably going soldier next. The impression I have is that AR is a lot like Assasin Cloak in the lining up sniper shots with damage bonus capacity, and with a Widow a Soldier sniper is just a tiny bit worse than an infiltrator soldier. A Revenant soldier is seemingly amazing as well. The Soldier isn't the only one trick pony in ME2 either; Vanguard is pretty much just charge+shotgun since Shockwave and Pull are pretty useless/situational (unless you get Reave, which is available to Soldiers too), Infiltrator is mostly just Cloak+sniping and occasional Incinerate. I'm sure spamming Drone, Overload and Incinerate + Cryo when on health or Singularity and Warp gets boring after a while too.

[swk3000]

I don't run out of ammo for all my weapons every battle. I run out of ammo for my Sniper Rifle all the time, though, as I can never seem to find enough Thermal Clips to get more than a few shots after most battles. And since I start off with the Sniper Rifle and take out as many enemies as I can, that means I tend to run out of ammo for it quite often.

[GiroX-]

The Soldier might be the easiest class to use for Insanity. It can handle just about every situation, plus the adrenaline rush allows you to deal massive amounts of damage with an assault rifle.

[King Eselred]

No. Soldier is the best and easiest class, able to handle any situation with ease. They don't even need a bonus power because they are so versatile.  HAR is probably the best skill in the game.  It's not as busted as Immunity or the old AR was, but HAR + the Revenant means stuff just dies and you are nigh invulnerable.  A Soldier has the sniper for long range and an ammo power for any situation.

Modifié par King Eselred, 06 mars 2010 - 06:20 .

[Spyndel]

I'm sorry, but if you're having ammo issues as a soldier on *any* difficulty setting in the game, you're a really terrible shot. The soldier carries more weapons in the game than any other class. The most ammo hungry loadout you can make is Vindicator+Mantis, and even then, you have plenty of ammo to support that combo. Even if you do run out, you have two other weapons to switch to.

If you pick up a Revenant, you stop even noticing ammo altogether.

Modifié par Spyndel, 06 mars 2010 - 06:25 .

[sandman7431]

I've finished the game on insanity with the soldier, the vanguard and the infiltrator and am currently playing the engineer. The soldier is by far the easiest character to play as. I picked warp ammo as my bonus talent and maxed it to heavy warp. I also got squad cryo and heightened adrenaline rush and I chose commando. You become easily the most powerful fighter in the game. Once you have the LMG, you are deadlier at close range than the vanguard and with adrenaline rush, you can do more damage at distance with sniper rifles than the infiltrator. The soldier is immensely powerful.



The engineer is a much more subtle class. On levels that are thick with synthetics, the engineer is great but on some of the collector areas, it's really ineffective. The soldier is effective in every situation in the game. If you take the widow with the soldier and use it with adrenaline rush, you can one shot almost anything. If you take the claymore and combine it with adrenaline rush, you actually become deadlier at close range than the vanguard because every shot has a 140% damage boost and you can rip off 2-3 shots per adrenaline boost. Of course the LMG is really the way to go with the soldier. Use the incisor sniper rifle or the viper and take the LMG (adrenaline rushing whenever you can with either weapon). You will be god-like. There's really not much need to use shotguns.

[SmilingMirror]

Athenau wrote...

You seem to be under the misapprehension that weapon damage and power damage are on the same footing.

An example of how high the soldier's burst damage can go:

Heightened AR gives you +140%. AP ammo gives you +70%. Commando gives you +15% weapon damage, and the 15% power damage boost applies to both AP ammo and heightened AR. A headshot gives you +100%. Weapon upgrades give you +50%. The sniper rifle headshot bonus is another +50%. In total you've got + 456.5% in bonuses.

The Widow does 368.3 damage per shot. With your bonuses that's 2049.6 damage. Instantly. And that's just to health. You can multiply that number by 1.5 if you're hitting an armored target (actually more, since the first SR research grants another +50% bonus to armor).

That's the tradeoff for limited ammo. Damage.

You forgot range modifiers and that damage is multiplied in AR.

all this and I still think soldier is still one of harder classes. Warp Detonation hits for nearly the same damage (it has 200 base with 100% bonus (biotic power stuff is doubled, we started with 50% from upgrades), another 100% bonus against armor, it was pulled in the air for another 100% damage, and the physics engine handles the rest (supposedly a lot of force)

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 06 mars 2010 - 06:47 .

[Athenau]

You forgot range modifiers and that damage is multiplied in AR

Sniper rifles don't get any range modifiers and the adrenaline rush damage boost is additive, not multiplicative.

Modifié par Athenau, 06 mars 2010 - 06:35 .

[swk3000]

Frankly, the only two weapons I use at all are the Sniper Rifle and the Assault Rifle. The Shotgun and the Pistol are never used.



Also, what's this LMG you're talking about?



Finally, I've pretty much had my question answered: the general consensus is that I'm a horrible shot. I knew that already, but apparently it's far worse than I thought, because everyone can apparently walk into a fight with the Mantis and never have to switch to any other weapon. Where they're getting all this extra ammo from without risking death every time they step out of cover is beyond me, but apparently that's what's happening.

[SmilingMirror]

Athenau wrote...

You forgot range modifiers and that damage is multiplied in AR

Sniper rifles don't get any range modifiers and the adrenaline rush damage boost is additive, not multiplicative.

fair enough about the sniper rifle, but I'm almost positive that AR damage adds some sort of multiplicative boost.

[sinosleep]

sandman7431 wrote...

I've finished the game on insanity with the soldier, the vanguard and the infiltrator and am currently playing the engineer. The soldier is by far the easiest character to play as. I picked warp ammo as my bonus talent and maxed it to heavy warp. I also got squad cryo and heightened adrenaline rush and I chose commando. You become easily the most powerful fighter in the game. Once you have the LMG, you are deadlier at close range than the vanguard and with adrenaline rush, you can do more damage at distance with sniper rifles than the infiltrator. The soldier is immensely powerful.

The engineer is a much more subtle class. On levels that are thick with synthetics, the engineer is great but on some of the collector areas, it's really ineffective. The soldier is effective in every situation in the game. If you take the widow with the soldier and use it with adrenaline rush, you can one shot almost anything. If you take the claymore and combine it with adrenaline rush, you actually become deadlier at close range than the vanguard because every shot has a 140% damage boost and you can rip off 2-3 shots per adrenaline boost. Of course the LMG is really the way to go with the soldier. Use the incisor sniper rifle or the viper and take the LMG (adrenaline rushing whenever you can with either weapon). You will be god-like. There's really not much need to use shotguns.

The whole engineer can't harm collector's thing is a myth. The engineer vid I posted that got selected was against just that, collectors. Also, as for adrenaline rush and the claymore, you don't become deadlier than a vanguard at close range, what you become is a player that wastes loads and loads and loads of damage potential. Sure, in one shot you'll do an obscene amount of damage, 75% of which will go unused as you killed the mob with with the first 25%. Not only that, but I've played a fully upgraded soldier with 10% sprint leggings equipped and it's STILL not an efficient way to go from target to target for shotguns. A vanguard with charge is a  far, FAR, superior shotgun wielder. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that essentially it's the ONLY class that makes the shotgun a viable every encounter weapon. 

Now don't get me wrong, soldiers are very powerful, but I believe where they are best suited is mid to long range. With the LMG and the viper they can clear out levels like nobody's business. 

[Spyndel]

swk3000 wrote...

Frankly, the only two weapons I use at all are the Sniper Rifle and the Assault Rifle. The Shotgun and the Pistol are never used.

Also, what's this LMG you're talking about?

Finally, I've pretty much had my question answered: the general consensus is that I'm a horrible shot. I knew that already, but apparently it's far worse than I thought, because everyone can apparently walk into a fight with the Mantis and never have to switch to any other weapon. Where they're getting all this extra ammo from without risking death every time they step out of cover is beyond me, but apparently that's what's happening.

No, of course not...in general sniper rifles (except the Viper) are not meant to be used non stop...you use them situationally, and use the AR for short/medium range work.  If you try to go through the whole game shooting nothing but the mantis, of course you will regularly run out of ammo.  But then, you are also being a little silly.

Take the vindicator with you for medium range sniping, and switch back and forth.

If you want to only ever play with one weapon, use the Viper (for sniping at any range), or pick up the Revenant  which kills everything in the game, kills quickly, and never runs out of bullets.

Modifié par Spyndel, 06 mars 2010 - 06:49 .

[Athenau]

fair enough about the sniper rifle, but I'm almost positive that AR damage adds some sort of multiplicative boost.

I've tested this extensively. It's additive. Try adrenaline rush + AP ammo vs no adrenaline rush + AP ammo. You get considerably less than 2.4x more damage with adrenaline rush, because it stacks additively with the bonus for AP.

[swk3000]

I'll support sinosleep here. In his Engineer video, he annihilates an entire group of Collectors with no problem. He's pretty damn gutsy, as well, thanks to his Drone. Running up to a Collector that's wielding a Particle Beam when you're one shot away from death and killing the thing before your shields start recharging is no small feat, but that's exactly what he does.



Sinosleep, I was wondering if you've actually played a Soldier class? If so, do you have any gameplay videos of them? I'd be interested in seeing if there's any way I could improve my strategy.

[Comrade Bork]

The key to playing a soldier on Insanity when I did it was to use an NG+ save. Then I use the GPR with master AP rounds until I get the AR accuracy boost, then use the Revenant with AP rounds. I didn't have trouble with anything (besides the 2nd praetorian, and the 1st platform sequence).

Also, use the Viper with AP as much as possible. Best sniper rifle for soldiers imo.

Modifié par Comrade Bork, 06 mars 2010 - 06:52 .

[_Dannok1234]

Why bother with Ap ammo for a soldier tho, you'd get more bang for your buck picking warp ammo, that way you have something for every occasion. I think you'd have to look extremely closely to see a difference between ap and inferno against armor, it's damn small boost as it is against health.



I actually understand the feelings of the swk300, when I started a soldier after a vanguard it actually felt harder in beginning. For me the soldier only really stands out against big things, thats were you can really get the benefits of the crazy revenant.

[SmilingMirror]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Why bother with Ap ammo for a soldier tho, you'd get more bang for your buck picking warp ammo, that way you have something for every occasion. I think you'd have to look extremely closely to see a difference between ap and inferno against armor, it's damn small boost as it is against health.

I actually understand the feelings of the swk300, when I started a soldier after a vanguard it actually felt harder in beginning. For me the soldier only really stands out against big things, thats were you can really get the benefits of the crazy revenant.

Hes trying to show off his damage %

[_Dannok1234]

Then his damage calculation is a bit off, as it doesn't really add all that much. Check out Sinosleep's video for evidence.

Edit: Rumination888 has one with Infiltrator comparing AP ammo vs Warp ammo against Harbinger, that too is pretty good. One shot less with warp ammo vs AP

Modifié par Dannok1234, 06 mars 2010 - 06:58 .

[Comrade Bork]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Why bother with Ap ammo for a soldier tho, you'd get more bang for your buck picking warp ammo, that way you have something for every occasion. I think you'd have to look extremely closely to see a difference between ap and inferno against armor, it's damn small boost as it is against health.

I actually understand the feelings of the swk300, when I started a soldier after a vanguard it actually felt harder in beginning. For me the soldier only really stands out against big things, thats were you can really get the benefits of the crazy revenant.

I have found that when I use AP ammo, I decimate shields, armor, and health. I don't know why, but it just seemed to work better than Inferno Ammo (it was quite noticable). I use the team ammo, and that might something to do with it (as my team mates might be shooting my target at the same time).

Modifié par Comrade Bork, 06 mars 2010 - 06:59 .