166 réponses à ce sujet

[_Dannok1234]

Considering that AP ammo does nothing against shields, and that you find the GPR to do more damage then the vindicator I would have to remain very much a skeptic.

[Comrade Bork]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Considering that AP ammo does nothing against shields, and that you find the GPR to do more damage then the vindicator I would have to remain very much a skeptic.

Did I say the vindicator does less damage? No. I just feel the GPR is an overall better weapon. It all depends on someone's playstyle. I might be wrong about the warp ammo, but I will check that out later, and return with my opinion of it. In all honesty, just because the numbers in the game say something is the best, it is not the case. There is not a one-size-fits-all as far as gameplay strategy goes.

[sinosleep]

Here is my AP ammo vs inferno ammo video using the scimi and evi shotguns. IMO, any class that has inferno ammo as a standard is better off than switching to AP. The damage boost is negligible and you lose out on the CC that inferno ammo provides.

[Athenau]

Then his damage calculation is a bit off, as it doesn't really add all that much. Check out Sinosleep's video for evidence.

Edit: Rumination888 has one with Infiltrator comparing AP ammo vs Warp ammo against Harbinger, that too is pretty good. One shot less with warp ammo vs AP

Warp ammo is better for high damage weapons against barriered opponents because of the barrier bonus and because you don't lose any damage from busting through the barrier with your first shot, i.e if you use AP and blow the barrier in one hit, any left over damage will not get the AP bonus because the ammo power damage call happens first.

Other than that, I find AP ammo superior. Barriers are relatively rare, and because they're always the topmost layer of defense you'll almost always be fighting damaged barriers (because of squadmate weapon fire + defense strips). So you get more bang for your buck with AP, IMO.

Modifié par Athenau, 06 mars 2010 - 07:13 .

[Kyo Seki]

Op is an obvious troll, who has it out for the soldier class. There's no point arguing with him.



But, ill try anyway. To get better at playing soldier is to literally get better at shooting. No other class plays more like a third person shooter. So if you are a horrible shot, like you say, of course playing the soldier class is going to be harder for you. Its the same as if i came in saying engineer sucks because i don't know when to use the drone or cryo because i have poor decision making abilities.



In short different classes require different skill sets.

[Aradace]

swk3000 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

But the Mantis suffers from a serious lack of ammo. Yes, it can kill thing fast, but it can't do so reliably. Power-oriented classes can keep going forever just on powers alone, so they're far more consistent. Thee Mantis runs out of ammo about a quarter of the way through any fight.

Also, I'm looking at things from an Insanity perspective.

Cant do so consistantly? No offense intended but, you must suck at lining up head shots then.

So what you're saying is that if a Soldier can't line up headshots, then they suck? Because I do, in fact, have trouble lining up headshots. I have to have the perfect shot before I fire, and the enemies always move before I can get a shot lined up. With the Assault Rifle, I aim at the box around them and let the gun do the rest of the work.

That's why you use Adrenaline Rush before you line up your shot...Makes things TONS easier

[sinosleep]

swk3000 wrote...

I'll support sinosleep here. In his Engineer video, he annihilates an entire group of Collectors with no problem. He's pretty damn gutsy, as well, thanks to his Drone. Running up to a Collector that's wielding a Particle Beam when you're one shot away from death and killing the thing before your shields start recharging is no small feat, but that's exactly what he does.

Sinosleep, I was wondering if you've actually played a Soldier class? If so, do you have any gameplay videos of them? I'd be interested in seeing if there's any way I could improve my strategy.

I don't have any soldier vids of my own but This vid is pretty much how I try to play. The soldier has access to a lot of weapons, so when playing switching to the proper tool for the job is the way to go IMO. I like the way he use the LMG when he needs to and switches to the viper when it's prudent to do so. 

[_Dannok1234]

@Comrade Bork

Facts are facts as they say. Vindicator has better damage and better accuracy then GPR and against collectors AP ammo is inferior to Warp ammo in terms of damage. These things are facts. Whether you dislike it or not.
This obviously doesn't mean you won't be successful using something that isn't optimal, because you clearly are or you wouldn't be posting it. But that still doesn't make it the better then it really is.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 06 mars 2010 - 07:17 .

[sandman7431]

sinosleep wrote...

sandman7431 wrote...

I've finished the game on insanity with the soldier, the vanguard and the infiltrator and am currently playing the engineer. The soldier is by far the easiest character to play as. I picked warp ammo as my bonus talent and maxed it to heavy warp. I also got squad cryo and heightened adrenaline rush and I chose commando. You become easily the most powerful fighter in the game. Once you have the LMG, you are deadlier at close range than the vanguard and with adrenaline rush, you can do more damage at distance with sniper rifles than the infiltrator. The soldier is immensely powerful.

The engineer is a much more subtle class. On levels that are thick with synthetics, the engineer is great but on some of the collector areas, it's really ineffective. The soldier is effective in every situation in the game. If you take the widow with the soldier and use it with adrenaline rush, you can one shot almost anything. If you take the claymore and combine it with adrenaline rush, you actually become deadlier at close range than the vanguard because every shot has a 140% damage boost and you can rip off 2-3 shots per adrenaline boost. Of course the LMG is really the way to go with the soldier. Use the incisor sniper rifle or the viper and take the LMG (adrenaline rushing whenever you can with either weapon). You will be god-like. There's really not much need to use shotguns.

The whole engineer can't harm collector's thing is a myth. The engineer vid I posted that got selected was against just that, collectors. Also, as for adrenaline rush and the claymore, you don't become deadlier than a vanguard at close range, what you become is a player that wastes loads and loads and loads of damage potential. Sure, in one shot you'll do an obscene amount of damage, 75% of which will go unused as you killed the mob with with the first 25%. Not only that, but I've played a fully upgraded soldier with 10% sprint leggings equipped and it's STILL not an efficient way to go from target to target for shotguns. A vanguard with charge is a  far, FAR, superior shotgun wielder. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that essentially it's the ONLY class that makes the shotgun a viable every encounter weapon. 

Now don't get me wrong, soldiers are very powerful, but I believe where they are best suited is mid to long range. With the LMG and the viper they can clear out levels like nobody's business. 

I know that engineers can harm collectors but they are far less effective in those fights than they are against geth.  With the soldier, it doesn't really matter who you're fighting.

As for the shotgun damage, try adrenaline rushing a geth prime with the claymore.  It kills them in 2 shots.  I'm not saying the soldier with the shotgun is better than the vanguard with the shotgun.  I'm just saying he deals more damage (assuming he's found a way to get in range).  I agree that the shotgun should be pretty much ignored as a soldier.  Only vanguards and sentinels really make sense with the shotty.  Besides the LMG is unbelievable at close range when combined with adrenaline rush.

I like the Infiltrator, vanguard and engineer more than the soldier but I think the soldier is definately easier to beat the game with.  I can hardly remember dying on my insanity run as a soldier while I died many times with the vanguard.

[SmilingMirror]

Athenau wrote...

Then his damage calculation is a bit off, as it doesn't really add all that much. Check out Sinosleep's video for evidence.

Edit: Rumination888 has one with Infiltrator comparing AP ammo vs Warp ammo against Harbinger, that too is pretty good. One shot less with warp ammo vs AP

Warp ammo is better for high damage weapons against barriered opponents because of the barrier bonus and because you don't lose any damage from busting through the barrier with your first shot, i.e if you use AP and blow the barrier in one hit, any left over damage will not get the AP bonus because the ammo power damage call happens first.

Other than that, I find AP ammo superior. Barriers are relatively rare, and because they're always the topmost layer of defense you'll almost always be fighting damaged barriers (because of squadmate weapon fire + defense strips). So you get more bang for your buck with AP, IMO.

The final mission has no shortage of barriers, and that's pretty much the only mission you have left. only "commander" enemies have armor, or the blood pack.

@Comrade Bork

Facts are facts as they say. Vindicator has better
damage and better accuracy then GPR and against collectors AP ammo is
inferior to Warp ammo in terms of damage. These things are facts.
Whether you dislike it or not.
This obviously doesn't mean you
won't be successful using something that isn't optimal, because you
clearly are or you wouldn't be posting it. But that still doesn't make
it the better then it really is.

Vindicator is not the straight up all around best gun. Revenant does more DPS and Avenger is a fully automatic with a large amount of reserve ammo. GPR has a "weird" clip but its mostly similar to an avenger and plenty of people seem to do fine with that.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 06 mars 2010 - 07:28 .

[_Dannok1234]

Athenau wrote...

Then his damage calculation is a bit off, as it doesn't really add all that much. Check out Sinosleep's video for evidence.

Edit: Rumination888 has one with Infiltrator comparing AP ammo vs Warp ammo against Harbinger, that too is pretty good. One shot less with warp ammo vs AP

Warp ammo is better for high damage weapons against barriered opponents because of the barrier bonus and because you don't lose any damage from busting through the barrier with your first shot, i.e if you use AP and blow the barrier in one hit, any left over damage will not get the AP bonus because the ammo power damage call happens first.

Other than that, I find AP ammo superior. Barriers are relatively rare, and because they're always the topmost layer of defense you'll almost always be fighting damaged barriers (because of squadmate weapon fire + defense strips). So you get more bang for your buck with AP, IMO.

I'm not sure what difficulty you play on where you find  barriers to be rare compared to armor. I would also be interested in how you manage to see the difference between 60% against armor vs 70% against armor. 

Here take a look :

[Cross1280]

While I have not played through as an Engineer yet, I found my Insanity play through on my soldier was easier than my Insanity playthrough on my Sentinal, with my soldier I used the Rev and viper almost exculsivly, with Inferno ammo, the only place I really had a problem was the first platform on the collector ship with this setup.

[swk3000]

Kyo Seki wrote...

Op is an obvious troll, who has it out for the soldier class. There's no point arguing with him.

Please don't call me a Troll. It makes it sound like I'm deliberately wasting everyone's time. I'm not trying to, and if I've wasted anyone's time on what everyone is basically saying is a stupid question, I'm sorry. I had a (wrong) theory, and I threw it out for others to comment on. That doesn't make me a Troll, so I'll thank you not to accuse me of being one.

And I don't have it out for the soldier class, considering that the only class I've ever played is a Soldier. They're too much fun for me to consider switching to anything else. I realize I'm not giving the other classes a fair chance, but I vastly prefer the simplicity of the Soldier class.

[Comrade Bork]

Dannok1234 wrote...

@Comrade Bork

Facts are facts as they say. Vindicator has better damage and better accuracy then GPR and against collectors AP ammo is inferior to Warp ammo in terms of damage. These things are facts. Whether you dislike it or not.
This obviously doesn't mean you won't be successful using something that isn't optimal, because you clearly are or you wouldn't be posting it. But that still doesn't make it the better then it really is.

Again, listen to the styles argument. Yes the Vindicator has better damage and accuaracy, but it is not a superior weapon in my eyes. The GPR has much more ammo, and lasts in a firefight. I find the damage difference to be negligible when on insanity. I prefer to keep a target in that "stunned" mode, when I turn on AP rounds and let loose with a full auto AR (GPR or Rev), I keep them doing the silly dance, so they can't fire back. I also don't have to worry about running out of ammo (unless I'm in an unusually long fight). Also, Warp ammo is better against collectors, but I don't have problems with barriers as it is, and I find that I face blue suns more than any other enemy (in which case I use AP rounds or inferno rounds). So yes, the numbers state that certain things are better, but playstyle ultimately determines what is the most effective.

-Comrade Bork

[Athenau]

I'm not sure what difficulty you play on where you find barriers to be rare compared to armor.

I play on insanity. And I'm not sure which game you're playing if you think barriers are common. They are by far the least common defense. Only collectors carry them in any significant numbers and you face collectors in a grand total of three missions. Apart from that there are the Sisterhood initiates, the odd Eclipse vanguard or commando, and maybe three Krogans with barriers. Armor and shields are WAY more common. Also, AP does more damage than warp to health.

would also be interested in how you manage to see the difference between 60% against armor vs 70% against armor.

The difference between inferno and AP is negligible on armor. It is not negligible on health because inferno does its extra damage as a DOT.

Modifié par Athenau, 06 mars 2010 - 07:28 .

[_Dannok1234]

Well if it's for the stun effect that you use GPR, shouldn't you be using Inferno ammo rather then AP ammo, since that has a built in stun effect? Thats why I'm saying that warp ammo is more cost effective if you will. Since you already has something that does good damage to armor, does CC. Of course you could take both AP and inferno, but that sort of seems pointless.

[Spyndel]

SmilingMirror wrote...

only "commander" enemies have armor, or the blood pack.

Any "dangerous" enemy you can think of in the game that you generally want to take down as quickly as possible, from rushing dogs/Krogan/Husks to lt./boss level enemies are protected by armor. Some arent anything *but* armor.

Im not saying I believe AP is a better pick in any situation, but I believe you are downplaying its value a little too much here.

Modifié par Spyndel, 06 mars 2010 - 07:29 .

[_Dannok1234]

Athenau wrote...

I'm not sure what difficulty you play on where you find barriers to be rare compared to armor.

I play on insanity. And I'm not sure which game you're playing if you think barriers are common. They are by far the least common defense. Only collectors carry them in any significant numbers and you face collectors in a grand total of three missions. Apart from that there's the odd Eclipse vanguard or commando, and maybe three Krogans with barriers. Armor and shields are WAY more common. Also, AP does more damage than warp to health.

would also be interested in how you manage to see the difference between 60% against armor vs 70% against armor.

The difference between inferno and AP is negligible on armor. It is not negligible on health because inferno does its extra damage as a DOT.

Did you watch the video's?

[swk3000]

sinosleep wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

I'll support sinosleep here. In his Engineer video, he annihilates an entire group of Collectors with no problem. He's pretty damn gutsy, as well, thanks to his Drone. Running up to a Collector that's wielding a Particle Beam when you're one shot away from death and killing the thing before your shields start recharging is no small feat, but that's exactly what he does.

Sinosleep, I was wondering if you've actually played a Soldier class? If so, do you have any gameplay videos of them? I'd be interested in seeing if there's any way I could improve my strategy.

I don't have any soldier vids of my own but This vid is pretty much how I try to play. The soldier has access to a lot of weapons, so when playing switching to the proper tool for the job is the way to go IMO. I like the way he use the LMG when he needs to and switches to the viper when it's prudent to do so. 

Thanks. That's an excellent video.

[sinosleep]

Athenau, did you watch the video? 5 shots with scimi and ap, 5 shots with scimi and inferno 3 shots with evi and ap, 3 shots with evi and inferno. Yes, if you looked at the health bar it was lower with the AP, but it STILL took the same number of shots. If it's not a big enough difference to save you any shots than its not a big enough difference to sacrifice CC for.

[Comrade Bork]

Athenau wrote...

The difference between inferno and AP is negligible on armor. It is not negligible on health because inferno does its extra damage as a DOT.

If that is true, then perhaps that is the reason I prefer AP ammo. I have felt that it does the damage instantaneously, while Inferno Ammo takes a while to kick in.

[_Dannok1234]

My point here about AP vs Warp is this. If you pick AP as your bonus power and don't take Inferno, you gain a completely insignificant damage boost and loss of CC. If you pick warp ammo, you don't lose the CC and you gain damage(compared to AP) against anything that has a barrier, which is quite a few enemies. You can also factor in that most enemies with armor has some kind of regenerate going on.

[sinosleep]

If it takes the same amount of shots regardless, then what the hell difference does it make if one is instant and one is a dot? The AP ammo crowd would have a point, if there was a vid out there where AP ammo took something down in less shots fired than with inferno ammo. Otherwise all you are doing is praising instant damage for the sake of praising instant damage. If the shots required to kill a target remain exactly the same, then it serves no tangible purpose. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 06 mars 2010 - 07:34 .

[Athenau]

Did you watch the video's?

Yes and? In that particular case and for that particular enemy and for that particular weapon, it took the same number of shots to kill with both (though AP did do noticeably more damage). So if you're using a low ROF high damage weapon the decision comes down to whether AP will push you over a breakpoint.



So by all means use inferno ammo on a vanguard. But that case is not relevant to a soldier using an AR.

[SmilingMirror]

Spyndel wrote...

SmilingMirror wrote...

only "commander" enemies have armor, or the blood pack.

Any "dangerous" enemy you can think of in the game that you generally want to take down as quickly as possible, from rushing dogs/Krogan/Husks to lt./boss level enemies are protected by armor. Some arent anything *but* armor.

Im not saying I believe AP is a better pick in any situation, but I believe you are downplaying its value a little too much here.

I'm not down playing the effectiveness of armor, i'm playing up the effectiveness of the other "armor and health killing" ammo types.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 06 mars 2010 - 07:36 .