18 réponses à ce sujet

[Joe115]

"The Citadel Tower is at the epicenter of the massive Citadel. Rising parallel to the station's Wards, the Tower is the most distinctive monument on the Citadel and is home to the Council." - Mass Effect Wikia

I've played through both Mass Effect games multiple times now, read both novels (the first being an actual signed copy, won before the first game came out, very nice) and it's safe to say I am a die hard Mass Effect geek. Still, every time I visit the Citadel, my mind just refuses to comprehend its design. At first I thought I was just being a ******, which is still quite likely, but it became clear to me that nobody seemed to get it.

See, it's not so hard to understand how the Wards are 5 giant arms connected through a ring called the Presidium. This Presidium is somewhat of a Ringworld/Halo sort of thing, with somewhere along the ring being the elevator to the so-called Citadel Tower. This tower then seems to extend toward the center of the ring, sort of like being the Presidium's radius.

It's clear from in-game cut-scenes that Sovereign, our squid-like Reaper BFF, enters the Citadel right before it closes from the direction of its pointy part where the Wards meet. So he's parallel to the Wards, and then wraps his giant arms around the Council Chambers, or at least the pointy thing that is also parallel to the Wards.

However, when taking the elevator ride to the Citadel Tower, you go straight up from the Presidium. That would mean you end up in the ring's center. You can then walk around a bit, suggesting that the Council Chambers are indeed the pointy thing parallel to the Wards, the actual towering construction Sovereign is cuddling so lovingly.

And this is where it starts to confuse me. After this cut-scene, your elevator stops, you get out and walk (possibly by using magnets or a small mass effect field around the tower's exterior, or whatever) toward Sovereign. It's as if you're walking directly toward his mouth, but did the last cut-scene not make it obvious that Sovereign would be at a 90 degree angle with the elevator? So how come it looks like you're facing him directly? Something doesn't make sense here.

Anyone got any bright ideas? This is driving me crazy.

Modifié par Joe115, 06 mars 2010 - 03:54 .

[tg1413]

I know the elevator ride makes it look like you go straight up from the presidium and kind of into the centre, but the council chambers are right at the top of the Citadel Tower. I presume the elevator scene is just like this in this case because it would have been challenging for them to show the elevator going upwards from the presidium then kind of flipping 90 degrees, then going straight up from there to the council chambers. By the way, when I say elevator scene I mean when you go up to the council from the presidium when you're exploring the citadel, not when you're forced to go up in the endgame.

I assume that Sovereign was placed on the tower like that by the developers to give you a massive sense of scale, but to also show you your target, and lead you to where you need to be when walking up the side of the tower. In the cutscene he flies down towards the citadel tower and essentially hooks his arms around the tower, and then is in his normal position. Sovereign's typical position is an almost 90 degree angle, except when he's flying forward. So as I said when Sovereign is hooked around the council chambers he is in his upright position. When you're running towards Sovereign on the tower you're essentially looking up at him.

I don't really understand why you think sovereign would be at a 90 degree angle.

Modifié par tg1413, 06 mars 2010 - 04:11 .

[Joe115]

Well, let me put it like this. Near the end of the game, when stepping outside the elevator, you are indeed facing Sovereign as if looking up at him. That would place you on the tower in the epicenter of the presidium. According to the wiki definition, this is the actual Citadel Tower. So no problems there.

The actual problem is the normal elevator ride, so that's when you're just exploring or are supposed to talk to the council. As you said yourself, tg1413, there should be a 90 degrees flip when taking this ride, but there isn't. And Sovereign would be at a 90 degree angle to Shepard, if the elevator stopped somewhere along the radius part. This is only the case when you assume the elevator did not do a flip. If there is a flip, that would indeed solve the whole thing. But if there is a flip, why the hell don't we see that when exploring the Citadel Tower. If it's challenging to display, which I find rather silly considering other graphic displays in the game, then why doesn't the screen just black-out or something?

The solution of a 90 degree flip that we cannot see during the elevator ride is of course a perfect explanation, were it not that there is no evidence of it. I'm beginning to feel like Bioware actually messed up and just didn't see the problem when building the elevator ride. And since Mass Effect is so absolutely awesome, I prefer to stick with the theory that I am still too damn stupid to get it.

But seriously, it's like they forgot the damn flip.

Modifié par Joe115, 06 mars 2010 - 06:34 .

[Impala]

...why do people care haha. I guess I just dont have the attention to detail to notice these things..The most likely answer seems to be that they just forgot which way it was facing when they were doing that scene.

Modifié par Impala, 06 mars 2010 - 09:36 .

[Selor Kiith]

It is simple... the Designers got a bit sloppy at this (please don't be offended, you might had your reasons to be) and simply forgot that the Sovereign would be at a 90° angle...

Or they simply didn't cared and thought it would look cool that way...

Or the Sovereign moved, while we where in the Presidium and during the short elevator ride...



Everything else is in the right angle to the Presidium and the Lift... just the sovereign is off...

[Zaxares]

Maybe they have curving elevator shafts?

[Louis deGuerre]

You're right. I noticed this but it looks so cool I don't mind

[Joe115]

Zaxares wrote...

Maybe they have curving elevator shafts?

This actually crossed my mind. Perhaps the only explanation that does not involve the level designers messing up the configuration of the Citadel, or at least tricks my mind into believing they didn't, is that the radius part of the ride and the Tower itself are so vast that they allow for a curved elevator shaft. I don't think we can honestly say this is not the case. So until somebody figures out a false assumption in our analysis, I would like to stick with this "curved ride" idea. It's either that or admitting they built the Citadel all wrong. And since I am the type of sci-fi nerd that almosts worships the creators of such an epic and mostly scientifically plausible galaxy, I'm gonna dismiss the latter as blasphemy.

Bioware clearing this up in ME3 would be much appreciated.

Modifié par Joe115, 07 mars 2010 - 11:50 .

[Louis deGuerre]

I realize I had this wrong in my mind. I thought the tower was straight, but it is straight to the middle and rises parallel to the wards at a 90 % angle (which is very logical and clever docking wise).
So now I finally understand all this talk about curved elevators. If the elevators are curved (or they switched ones at the joint) it makes sense.

[Br34ch]

Not to worry -- even Sovereign is apparently confused, banging on the wrong side of the tower, whereas there's a convenient window just on the opposite side...

[Schroing]

ignore this

Modifié par Schroing, 08 mars 2010 - 12:17 .

[Schroing]

Oh! Nevermind, I understand what you're saying now. The most likely answer in my mind is that Shepard simply wouldn't be able to perceive the turn - obviously, there's all kinds of hella weird ridiculous logic as to how gravity works with the citadel, and this is another example of that. Rather than everything just turning and you falling onto one of the walls while you're on the elevator, the gravity -and- the pathway shift, making it seem like nothing is shifting. You continue to walk on the same floor, and everything seems normal.



That may or may not work, I don't know. It makes sense to my uneducated mind.

[TheRealIncarnal]

You also don't float around in your spaceship, so any problems you experience in the game with orientation can be easily explained with artificial gravity.

[Schroing]

Joe115 wrote...

Zaxares wrote...

Maybe they have curving elevator shafts?

This actually crossed my mind. Perhaps the only explanation that does not involve the level designers messing up the configuration of the Citadel, or at least tricks my mind into believing they didn't, is that the radius part of the ride and the Tower itself are so vast that they allow for a curved elevator shaft. I don't think we can honestly say this is not the case. So until somebody figures out a false assumption in our analysis, I would like to stick with this "curved ride" idea. It's either that or admitting they built the Citadel all wrong. And since I am the type of sci-fi nerd that almosts worships the creators of such an epic and mostly scientifically plausible galaxy, I'm gonna dismiss the latter as blasphemy.

Bioware clearing this up in ME3 would be much appreciated.

After a bit of thought - a curved elevator with -LOTS- of gravity shifts would be the only solution, I'd think, as anything more drastic than that would be clearly visible by looking at the tunnel (which is visible through apparent holes in the side walls and a transparent front door) or is made obsolete by the elevator design itself. The only way I can think of a curved shaft solution to work with the elevator design they have would be for one side to have extra space against it and the opposite side to that to hold the...elevating...mechanism. That way it wouldn't slam into the wall or scrape against it every couple of seconds as the path curved.

I'm not really sure of exactly how much space you'd need, but there doesn't seem to be very much from what I can see in the Mass Effect elevators. So I can't say whether or not they'd be functional, but at the moment I'm leaning towards...skeptical.

Modifié par Schroing, 08 mars 2010 - 12:34 .

[Ahalazar]

Does the elevator ride cut-scene fade-out before getting you to the garden?

[Lake88]

Here's the citadel tower logo present throughout the presidium in both ME1 and 2. It SEEMS to be a representation of the base of the citadel tower. The curved supports could mean that there's a curved route for the shaft to go. Then again, it also looks like there's an indentation in the middle of the curved structure, which may suggest that the elevator does an 90 degree.



Im sure how the elevator gets there crossed bioware's mind too. They might had decided to block out any external views so they need not do further complicated animation. The 'holes' in the elevator only tell you that the elevator is moving, compared to windows that would tell you your orientation.

[Timerider42]

I think the elevator only goes to the 90 turn. Remember how long the Citadel tower room is? I think that's parallel to the wards. Gravity goes to one side of the tower (i.e. a hallway), not up/down the long way.

[Lake88]

I disagree on how it is a long hallway.... After saren's battle, there is a scene where one of sovereign's legs crashes into the council room window. It shows the exterior then cuts to the interior. The scene pretty much confirms that the Tower is up/down like an actual tower.