272 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Das Wolfen wrote...

No idea if they constitute good or evil, as I reckon their motives likely elevate them above such classification (if Soveregin's (sp?) words are to be believed). All I know is, Harbringer says something right at the end of ME2 which really has me intrigued and makes me think the Reapers view themselves as the 'good guys'.

HARBRINGER: We are your salvation through destruction.

He doesn't seem to deliver that line with any arrogance or contempt, or atleast not as much as would be expected with him being required to speak to us 'puny mortals' so many he really does think he's doing the right thing.

Everything Harbinger says is full of arrogance and contempt.
He no doubt is referring to the Reaper interest in making Reapers out of humans. That, to Harbinger, is "salvation through destruction", "genetic destiny" and "ascension" because he's an arrogant ****** from a race of arrogant pricks who think the only worthy form of life is themselves.

[Vaenier]

Mallissin wrote...

I think it's hilarious that people who enjoyed Avatar and espousing extremist environmentalist beliefs are arguing the Reapers are good.

Have you become that confused and overwhelmed by guilt for being the dominant species on the planet?

I do it from boredum. Though I am not extremist, and i am the perfect example of what is wrong with humanity.

[HeyBlade789]

Dave the Seagull wrote...

HeyBlade789 wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Ok next I'm going to see a post on how the Reapers are simply rabid environmentalists out to save the galaxy. Oops, sorry too late. Am I reading the OP correct in that the reapers are destroying civilizations for the environment? Is this the final evolution of PETA?

I'll take the effort to deconstruct this argument when I see a post affirming this interpretation.

Think about it this way, if the civilisations of the universe totally mined out the universe there would be nothing, end of.
I think killing the civilisation off is a better idea than having nothing
(BTW i arent an uber environmentalist, its just a theory not ym belief, im 15 for christ sake no Al Gore)

If you don't feel confident about your own opinions on something, don't post them. That's not how it works.

Im basing my ideas on something thats in the game eg: "We are your salvation through destruction" and im basing my theory on such ideas as that, they believe themselves to be good, they may indeed be good, my personal views have nothing to do with it. Its a fake universe which i love and tbh, if your going to be all mean to me and be all *silly voice* "it doesnt work that way kiddo, go home" then just either
1. dont post
OR
2. Post something decent
/ fail

[InvaderErl]

The Angry One wrote...

Everything Harbinger says is full of arrogance and contempt.
He no doubt is referring to the Reaper interest in making Reapers out of humans. That, to Harbinger, is "salvation through destruction", "genetic destiny" and "ascension" because he's an arrogant ****** from a race of arrogant pricks who think the only worthy form of life is themselves.

Harbinger blaming the Collectors for losing was hilarious.

In ME3 when Shepard kills him I want his last words to be, "The sun was in my eyes!"

[Vaenier]

InvaderErl wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Everything Harbinger says is full of arrogance and contempt.
He no doubt is referring to the Reaper interest in making Reapers out of humans. That, to Harbinger, is "salvation through destruction", "genetic destiny" and "ascension" because he's an arrogant ****** from a race of arrogant pricks who think the only worthy form of life is themselves.

Harbinger blaming the Collectors for losing was hilarious.

In ME3 when Shepard kills him I want his last words to be, "The sun was in my eyes!"

"Haxors!"

[applehug]

HeyBlade789 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...

HeyBlade789 wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Ok next I'm going to see a post on how the Reapers are simply rabid environmentalists out to save the galaxy. Oops, sorry too late. Am I reading the OP correct in that the reapers are destroying civilizations for the environment? Is this the final evolution of PETA?

I'll take the effort to deconstruct this argument when I see a post affirming this interpretation.

Think about it this way, if the civilisations of the universe totally mined out the universe there would be nothing, end of.
I think killing the civilisation off is a better idea than having nothing
(BTW i arent an uber environmentalist, its just a theory not ym belief, im 15 for christ sake no Al Gore)

If you don't feel confident about your own opinions on something, don't post them. That's not how it works.

Im basing my ideas on something thats in the game eg: "We are your salvation through destruction" and im basing my theory on such ideas as that, they believe themselves to be good, they may indeed be good, my personal views have nothing to do with it. Its a fake universe which i love and tbh, if your going to be all mean to me and be all *silly voice* "it doesnt work that way kiddo, go home" then just either
1. dont post
OR
2. Post something decent
/ fail

No one thinks themselves evil. Just becuase they think they're good doesn't make them good.

[Collider]

We have no evidence that the Reapers are doing it for any reason other than "lol we're better than you." Saying that we are to have "salvation through destruction" means basically nothing. Of course the reapers would like you to think that it really is the best route just to stand there and get turned into paste.

[The Angry One]

Vaenier wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Everything Harbinger says is full of arrogance and contempt.
He no doubt is referring to the Reaper interest in making Reapers out of humans. That, to Harbinger, is "salvation through destruction", "genetic destiny" and "ascension" because he's an arrogant ****** from a race of arrogant pricks who think the only worthy form of life is themselves.

Harbinger blaming the Collectors for losing was hilarious.

In ME3 when Shepard kills him I want his last words to be, "The sun was in my eyes!"

"Haxors!"

Exploiter! Shepard is an exploiter!
Chinese gold farmer!
I will report yoooooooooou!

Modifié par The Angry One, 06 mars 2010 - 05:51 .

[Computron2000]

applehug wrote...
No one thinks themselves evil. Just becuase they think they're good doesn't make them good.

You are absolutely correct.

Then comes the important question. Who defines what is good and evil?

[Daewan]

Nature abhors a vacuum.

The galaxy spent fifty thousand years nurturing these new young species, raising them to amazing technological levels. Space was given to them to grow, and explore, and discover.

And then, just like last time some jerks from dark space - not even residents of the natural galaxy - invade and wipe them all out. Now nature has to start all over again from scratch.

What a terrible waste of resources.

No, they're not good. Possibly, if they were a natural feature of the galaxy, the argument could be made, but since they are invaders from a totally different area and are not even natural but were originally created by some other exterior force, then no.

[applehug]

Computron2000 wrote...

applehug wrote...
No one thinks themselves evil. Just becuase they think they're good doesn't make them good.

You are absolutely correct.

Then comes the important question. Who defines what is good and evil?

No one. It's in the eye of the beholder.

Modifié par applehug, 06 mars 2010 - 05:54 .

[Mallissin]

Computron2000 wrote...
Then comes the important question. Who defines what is good and evil?

People who think they are good decide what is evil. Yet people who think they are good do the most evil.

Hence why good never wins.

[InvaderErl]

The Angry One wrote...


Exploiter! Shepard is an exploiter!
Chinese gold farmer!
I will report yoooooooooou!

They truly are a wise and ancient race.

[Vaenier]

Computron2000 wrote...

applehug wrote...
No one thinks themselves evil. Just becuase they think they're good doesn't make them good.

You are absolutely correct.

Then comes the important question. Who defines what is good and evil?

Good an evil are opinions of the observer. There is no cosmic morality system, only the ability to live with your actions.

[Dave the Seagull]

The Angry One wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Everything Harbinger says is full of arrogance and contempt.
He no doubt is referring to the Reaper interest in making Reapers out of humans. That, to Harbinger, is "salvation through destruction", "genetic destiny" and "ascension" because he's an arrogant ****** from a race of arrogant pricks who think the only worthy form of life is themselves.

Harbinger blaming the Collectors for losing was hilarious.

In ME3 when Shepard kills him I want his last words to be, "The sun was in my eyes!"

"Haxors!"

Exploiter! Shepard is an exploiter!
Chinese gold farmer!
I will report yoooooooooou!

"No ammo types
No class abilities
Final Destination"

[VampireCommando]

well they kinda kill everything in the galaxy every 50,000 so i'd say there evil, and they forced the colectors to try and kidnap Ash from me, so there deffenatly evil ^^

[InvaderErl]

Dave the Seagull wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Everything Harbinger says is full of arrogance and contempt.
He no doubt is referring to the Reaper interest in making Reapers out of humans. That, to Harbinger, is "salvation through destruction", "genetic destiny" and "ascension" because he's an arrogant ****** from a race of arrogant pricks who think the only worthy form of life is themselves.

Harbinger blaming the Collectors for losing was hilarious.

In ME3 when Shepard kills him I want his last words to be, "The sun was in my eyes!"

"Haxors!"

Exploiter! Shepard is an exploiter!
Chinese gold farmer!
I will report yoooooooooou!

"No ammo types
No class abilities
Final Destination"

Listen no Zergling rush for 30 min, k?

[addiction21]

applehug wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

applehug wrote...
No one thinks themselves evil. Just becuase they think they're good doesn't make them good.

You are absolutely correct.

Then comes the important question. Who defines what is good and evil?

No one. It's in the eye of the beholder.

But Beholders have so many eyes. How are we to be sure they are all the same?

[Sunnie]

The bottom line is this:



If you are the Reapers, the entire galaxy is full of "The Bad Guys".

If you are anyone else in the galaxy, the Reapers are "The Bad Guys" since they are trying to, and are usually successful at, killing all higher life forms every so often.



Good and evil are completely dependent upon the point of view. During the crusades, the Christian invading armies saw the Muslims as the evil guys, and the Muslims saw the Christian invaders as the evil guys. But just for the sake of common sense, I will kill anyone trying to kill me, don't care if they are good or evil.

[Austichar]

I'd totally join the Reapers if my consious and mind would become the central mind. I:3

[jklinders]

HeyBlade789 wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Ok next I'm going to see a post on how the Reapers are simply rabid environmentalists out to save the galaxy. Oops, sorry too late. Am I reading the OP correct in that the reapers are destroying civilizations for the environment? Is this the final evolution of PETA?

I'll take the effort to deconstruct this argument when I see a post affirming this interpretation.

Think about it this way, if the civilisations of the universe totally mined out the universe there would be nothing, end of.
I think killing the civilisation off is a better idea than having nothing
(BTW i arent an uber environmentalist, its just a theory not ym belief, im 15 for christ sake no Al Gore)

Don't worry, I'll be gentle.

I'll start saying good and evil have no place in this debate. None. reason is, good and evil are far more subjective than anyone wants to admit. The reapers are enough different from others that their idea of good and evil is different from ours. From their perspective, it may be possible that organics are the problem. just like my cat sees mice a problem. I don't mind my cat hunting mice. My cat enjoys the hunt, but if I could care enough to ask the mice what they thought, they might have a different opinion.

now let us expand this to fully sapient beings. In any conflict, who is good and who is evil is frequently decided after the fact, usually by the winner. the reapers have won every scuffle they have had to date. they feel they are the "good guys". The Protheans who briefly survived disagree. Shepard and those who believe in the reapers disageree. they want to live on terms they choose and not have some outsider direct their fate for them.

Resources are going to run out sooner or later no matter how many harvests there are. so the question becomes is it OK for an outside faction to decide the fate of entire civilizations without taking there own wishes into account?

My answer is no. I'll let you decide yours.:happy:

[marshalleck]

I don't see anyone moralizing when it comes time to fumigate a building infested with cockroaches. Why should Reapers spend any time wringing their tentacles over doing the same to the galaxy?

[InvaderErl]

Sunnie22 wrote...

The bottom line is this:

If you are the Reapers, the entire galaxy is full of "The Bad Guys".
If you are anyone else in the galaxy, the Reapers are "The Bad Guys" since they are trying to, and are usually successful at, killing all higher life forms every so often.

Good and evil are completely dependent upon the point of view. During the crusades, the Christian invading armies saw the Muslims as the evil guys, and the Muslims saw the Christian invaders as the evil guys. But just for the sake of common sense, I will kill anyone trying to kill me, don't care if they are good or evil.

Good and evil is not completely subjective.

If I kill a million people for the lolz of it I have clearly done something evil.

Arguing otherwise is just being obtuse.

[Computron2000]

applehug wrote...
No one. It's in the eye of the beholder.

Vaenier wrote...
Good an evil are opinions of the observer. There is no cosmic morality system, only the ability to live with your actions.

Yes, which leads to the following post that describes the Reapers

Mallissin wrote...
People who think they are good decide what is evil. Yet people who think they are good do the most evil.

However the case for humanity in ME2 is not based on good and evil. It is based on survival or extinction. So the OP's title of whether the Reapers are good or evil is not the correct question. The question is whether humanity wishes to survive.

[The Angry One]

marshalleck wrote...

I don't see anyone moralizing when it comes time to fumigate a building infested with cockroaches. Why should Reapers spend any time wringing their tentacles over doing the same to the galaxy?

cockroaches don't think and feel. They don't communicate with us and ask us why we're killing them.
And no we're not cockroaches to the Reapers. They have a technological edge, but they're still giant cuttlefish.