272 réponses à ce sujet

[JamieCOTC]

Unfortunately, that plotline follows the same story as "The Day the Earth Stood Still" remake, which in itself is evil. 

[superimposed]

Mallissin wrote...

superimposed wrote...
Doesn't sound too different to what a lot of their victims do to one another.
Fight each other for territories and control of resources, ultimately making one side dominant the other subservient - or non-existant.

You have fallen into the ultimate philosophical phallacy. You think you can be objective.

Nothing is objective and no one can be objective. Objectivity is a myth, we are all clouded by independant perspectives and tained by cultural morals.

Even the Reapers have their own perspective and morals. They are evil because they intend to destroy everyone else.

Being objective is not the same objective fact.
To say that the reapers are either moral or immoral, that anything is moral or immoral, and say it under the assumption of 'fact' is absurd. Human perception is exactly that, human perception, it is not an objective administration on the universe.
All those individual perceptions mean nothing, because the universe has no morality, no justice, no right or wrong. Anything with those ideas are far too small to matter.

So there.

[Vaenier]

The Angry One wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

No, sorry. The Reapers are evil. They not only maintain a Reaper population that can only be sustained by over-consumption, they do so by choice because they keep trying to make more of themselves.
Plus, they RAPE THE MINDS of the sapient creatures they don't immediately consume, and turn them into grotesque zombie remnants of their former selves to do their bidding, and they revel in it.

That is 100% evil.

Are you familiar with parasitic wasp reproduction? The adult wasp paralyzes its victim, then with its ovipositor it lays eggs inside the body of its target, often some form of caterpillar. The eggs hatch and begin to consume the host from the inside out. They don't just eat anything though. They first start with the least vital organs and fluids, so as to keep the host alive for as long as possible. The host only dies when the wasp larvae enter pupae form or burst forth from it as an adult, much like in the Alien movies.

It's a horrific process by our standards, but that doesn't make them evil.

Wasps aren't intelligent, they do not know any better, nor do they have a choice.

You vegitarian?

[Werewolf2010]

I doesn't matter at that point. It becomes a matter of personal survival. Both want to exist. Neither can do it comfertably with the other present. Fight for dominance occurs. Law of nature applies.

[The Angry One]

Computron2000 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

No, sorry. The Reapers are evil. They not only maintain a Reaper population that can only be sustained by over-consumption, they do so by choice because they keep trying to make more of themselves.
Plus, they RAPE THE MINDS of the sapient creatures they don't immediately consume, and turn them into grotesque zombie remnants of their former selves to do their bidding, and they revel in it.

That is 100% evil.

*On a commercial chicken farm*
Worker 1: Nice SUV there boss!
Boss: Thanks, i just got it. It drinks petrol like crazy but who cares, i got cash. I might get another 1 for my wife too
Worker 1: Boss, i managed to squeeze another 10 chickens into Coop 5
Boss: Good work, Worker 1. Do the same for the rest and we'll be making more money and more bonuses for the workers too!
Worker 1: Thats good, boss. I get on it right away
Worker 2: But boss, the chickens don't look too energetic
Boss: Thats the idea Worker 2 or how would we fatten them fast? They are not human, they are just animals for eating

Here we go again.

1) Chickens aren't sapient creatures, they are animals. 
2) Our society generally looks down on the unecesarry abuse of animals for fun and profit. Reaper society endorses abuse of sapient creatures.

[Computron2000]

Vaenier wrote...
Now if it was kill a million bacteria for the lolz of it, is it evil? (commonly done by yourself in the trillions)

With intent?

[marshalleck]

The Angry One wrote...

Wasps aren't intelligent, they do not know any better, nor do they have a choice.

Humans raise animals in factory farms, where the creatures are born, raised, and live in filth and squalor before having a pressure spike driven through their skulls. Are humans evil? Do humans deserve to survive? What about the animals humans consume, do they?

[The Angry One]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Unfortunately, that plotline follows the same story as "The Day the Earth Stood Still" remake, which in itself is evil. 

That movie should be lazered out of existance.
By the original movie's Gort.

[Computron2000]

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

[Netzach]

I support the reapers and i hope in ME3 my Shepard could join them

[Vaenier]

Computron2000 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

Winner!

[The Angry One]

marshalleck wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Wasps aren't intelligent, they do not know any better, nor do they have a choice.

Humans raise animals in factory farms, where the creatures are born, raised, and live in filth and squalor before having a pressure spike driven through their skulls. Are humans evil? Do humans deserve to survive? What about the animals humans consume, do they?

See above. Stop comparing animals with sapient creatures. Stop thinking society as a whole endorses abuse of animals when it doesn't.

And no we are not animals when compared to the Reapers, we communicate with them, we are intelligent. They harvest us precisely because we are intelligent.

[InvaderErl]

The Angry One wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Unfortunately, that plotline follows the same story as "The Day the Earth Stood Still" remake, which in itself is evil. 

That movie should be lazered out of existance.
By the original movie's Gort.

"Woah".

[The Angry One]

Computron2000 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

Prove that the Reapers are to us what we are to bacteria.

[marshalleck]

Computron2000 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

Precisely. If gradients of intelligence and consciousness are what matters, and Reapers are operating on a much higher mental plateau then humans, then it follows that they are justified in preying on what they view as lesser species.

[The Angry One]

marshalleck wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

Precisely. If gradients of intelligence and consciousness are what matters, and Reapers are operating on a much higher mental plateau then humans, then it follows that they are justified in preying on what they view as lesser species.

Bull****. In 2 years, Turians could reverse-engineer Reaper tech that was never meant for them to have.
That is not operating on a much higher mental plateau.

[Vaenier]

The Angry One wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Wasps aren't intelligent, they do not know any better, nor do they have a choice.

Humans raise animals in factory farms, where the creatures are born, raised, and live in filth and squalor before having a pressure spike driven through their skulls. Are humans evil? Do humans deserve to survive? What about the animals humans consume, do they?

See above. Stop comparing animals with sapient creatures. Stop thinking society as a whole endorses abuse of animals when it doesn't.

And no we are not animals when compared to the Reapers, we communicate with them, we are intelligent. They harvest us precisely because we are intelligent.

for all you know, they exist on a higher plane of existance. they talk to us like we talk to our pets. they put us down like we do to our vermin.
dogs are inteligent too. dolphins also. is there a magic iq you need to be considered the apex of inteligent life?

they are not evil, they are merely a different form of life.

[superimposed]

The Angry One wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Wasps aren't intelligent, they do not know any better, nor do they have a choice.

Humans raise animals in factory farms, where the creatures are born, raised, and live in filth and squalor before having a pressure spike driven through their skulls. Are humans evil? Do humans deserve to survive? What about the animals humans consume, do they?

See above. Stop comparing animals with sapient creatures. Stop thinking society as a whole endorses abuse of animals when it doesn't.

And no we are not animals when compared to the Reapers, we communicate with them, we are intelligent. They harvest us precisely because we are intelligent.

Intelligence is not a warrant for survival.

Besides,

For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was
more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the
wheel, New York, wars and so on - whilst all the dolphins had ever done
was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the
dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than
man - for precisely the same reasons.

[marshalleck]

The Angry One wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

Prove that the Reapers are to us what we are to bacteria.

There's not even that much of a difference between humans and the creatures they exploit. Other primates are well-dcoumented to have complex social structures, use tools, etc. And they are often killed not for sustenance but for trophies. Anything you wish to level against the Reapers in this regard can be visited equally upon humanity.

[Computron2000]

The Angry One wrote...
Here we go again.

1) Chickens aren't sapient creatures, they are animals. 
2) Our society generally looks down on the unecesarry abuse of animals for fun and profit. Reaper society endorses abuse of sapient creatures.

Hmm then what is to say we could not be considered animals, fit only for consumption by a self declared higher lifeform. You do know that the words "Our society" does not represent many countries? Dogs are considered pests in some countries and a consumable meat in korea/china. This is acceptable for their societies but unlikely acceptable for the societies you know.

[Dave the Seagull]

Computron2000 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

You don't understand what Higher intellegent life means. It's a scientific term meaning an organism that think for itself by choice, has an understanding of the world around it and can at the very least feel emotion. Ants and blobs of jelly with DNA in the middle cannot do this.

It does not mean "I am smarter than them".

marshalleck wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

Prove that the Reapers are to us what we are to bacteria.

There's not even that much of a difference between humans and the creatures they exploit. Other primates are well-dcoumented to have complex social structures, use tools, etc. And they are often killed not for sustenance but for trophies. Anything you wish to level against the Reapers in this regard can be visited equally upon humanity.

Yeah, remember when the whole of the human race decided to hunt down all the primates?

Modifié par Dave the Seagull, 06 mars 2010 - 06:37 .

[Eretikas]

HeyBlade789 wrote...
What is their mission of killing is actually good.

OP had been indoctrinated.

[superimposed]

marshalleck wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

Prove that the Reapers are to us what we are to bacteria.

There's not even that much of a difference between humans and the creatures they exploit. Other primates are well-dcoumented to have complex social structures, use tools, etc. And they are often killed not for sustenance but for trophies. Anything you wish to level against the Reapers in this regard can be visited equally upon humanity.

It's not a matter of equivalence. It's a matter of fact. Neither the reapers nor the humans are either good or bad, hero or villain. They tell themselves they are one or the other, and ascribe morality to their actions, but that's all it is, ascribed morality, not factual morality.

...goddamnit. I'm discussing this over a computer game.

[applehug]

marshalleck wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

Prove that the Reapers are to us what we are to bacteria.

There's not even that much of a difference between humans and the creatures they exploit. Other primates are well-dcoumented to have complex social structures, use tools, etc. And they are often killed not for sustenance but for trophies. Anything you wish to level against the Reapers in this regard can be visited equally upon humanity.

Except most first-world governments ban hunting primates.

[The Angry One]

Hyperbole about dolphins from an era when everyone was so damn in love with cetacean life forms who turned out to not be as super-intelligent as the hippies said they were serves nothing.

marshalleck wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

Prove that the Reapers are to us what we are to bacteria.

There's not even that much of a difference between humans and the creatures they exploit. Other primates are well-dcoumented to have complex social structures, use tools, etc. And they are often killed not for sustenance but for trophies. Anything you wish to level against the Reapers in this regard can be visited equally upon humanity.

And they are still not sapient, so this point is irrelevant.
Furthermore we, as humans, do not actively seek to exterminate other primates. In fact, a lot of us work to preserve them. We aren't fattening them up to one day COMPLETELY ELIMINATE THEM and turn the survivors into insectoid zombies.