272 réponses à ce sujet

[InvaderErl]

The fact that culturally, technologically and creatively the Reapers are stagnant completely undermines this whole we are bacteria to them metaphor.

They take out civilizations when they do because to wait longer would mean they are facing an enemy that could actually fight back for once. Hell the Protheans had just unlocked the Reaper's claim to fame: the Mass Relays.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 06 mars 2010 - 06:39 .

[marshalleck]

applehug wrote...

Except most first-world governments ban hunting primates.

The laws of a country on the opposite side of the world or thousands of miles away are of little consequence where the poaching occurs.

[Vaenier]

Dave the Seagull wrote...

You don't understand what Higher intellegent life means. It's a scientific term meaning an organism that think for itself by choice, has an understanding of the world around it and can at the very least feel emotion. Ants and blobs of jelly with DNA in the middle cannot do this.

It does not mean "I am smarter than them".

ok, how about rats, lizards, cats. Where is the magic line a species needs to be above.

[The Angry One]

Computron2000 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Here we go again.

1) Chickens aren't sapient creatures, they are animals. 
2) Our society generally looks down on the unecesarry abuse of animals for fun and profit. Reaper society endorses abuse of sapient creatures.

Hmm then what is to say we could not be considered animals, fit only for consumption by a self declared higher lifeform. You do know that the words "Our society" does not represent many countries? Dogs are considered pests in some countries and a consumable meat in korea/china. This is acceptable for their societies but unlikely acceptable for the societies you know.

Because we can communicate with them in a language they understand.
We can use their technology, and make it our own.
Show me a chicken, or a dog, or a primate that can do that and then we'll talk.

[Computron2000]

The Angry One wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

Prove that the Reapers are to us what we are to bacteria.

Then i would need to prove what they are thinking. That they consider themselves a higher life form much like we consider ourselves a higher lifeform.

To do so would be easy. Both Sovereign adn Harbinger consistently display attitutes and conversations to such intentions. Since you have played both, you do not seriously require me to find and quote text for you do you?

[Dave the Seagull]

marshalleck wrote...

applehug wrote...

Except most first-world governments ban hunting primates.

The laws of a country on the opposite side of the world or thousands of miles away are of little consequence where the poaching occurs.

Those are a few hunters doing it for sport, money and monkey meat.

As far as we know all the Reapers attacking. Every single one.

[The Angry One]

Computron2000 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...
Bacteria and Ants never had a Prog Rock period. Therefore they are not higher intelligant life.

So if we say we are higher intelligent life and thus we should not care about other life forms, then if the Reapers say they are a higher intelligent life and thus do not care about pest races like humanity...

Prove that the Reapers are to us what we are to bacteria.

Then i would need to prove what they are thinking. That they consider themselves a higher life form much like we consider ourselves a higher lifeform.

To do so would be easy. Both Sovereign adn Harbinger consistently display attitutes and conversations to such intentions. Since you have played both, you do not seriously require me to find and quote text for you do you?

So what? To a.. member of the National Socialist Worker's Party, a Jew was little more than bacteria.
This did not make them right, or good. It in fact made them evil scum.

[superimposed]

Gorillas are self-aware, they are capable of emotions like sorrow, regret, laughter. They have a complex language consisting both of verbal sounds and physical movements.

They dream.

They can create artworks, and can have aspirations for the future.

[Vaenier]

The Angry One wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Here we go again.

1) Chickens aren't sapient creatures, they are animals. 
2) Our society generally looks down on the unecesarry abuse of animals for fun and profit. Reaper society endorses abuse of sapient creatures.

Hmm then what is to say we could not be considered animals, fit only for consumption by a self declared higher lifeform. You do know that the words "Our society" does not represent many countries? Dogs are considered pests in some countries and a consumable meat in korea/china. This is acceptable for their societies but unlikely acceptable for the societies you know.

Because we can communicate with them in a language they understand.
We can use their technology, and make it our own.
Show me a chicken, or a dog, or a primate that can do that and then we'll talk.

dolphins? they can communicate in a simple manner with us, and use tools for problem solving. Could be horribly wrong and my memory has been messed up about discovery chanel show from several years ago.

[superimposed]

The Angry One wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Here we go again.

1) Chickens aren't sapient creatures, they are animals. 
2) Our society generally looks down on the unecesarry abuse of animals for fun and profit. Reaper society endorses abuse of sapient creatures.

Hmm then what is to say we could not be considered animals, fit only for consumption by a self declared higher lifeform. You do know that the words "Our society" does not represent many countries? Dogs are considered pests in some countries and a consumable meat in korea/china. This is acceptable for their societies but unlikely acceptable for the societies you know.

Because we can communicate with them in a language they understand.
We can use their technology, and make it our own.
Show me a chicken, or a dog, or a primate that can do that and then we'll talk.

Show me one you can understand.

[Sunnie]

The Angry One wrote...


Because we can communicate with them in a language they understand.
We can use their technology, and make it our own.
Show me a chicken, or a dog, or a primate that can do that and then we'll talk.

Exactly!

[Vaenier]

a bacteria would see a human as a group of cells all conspiring against it. a human can see a reaper as a group of liquid persons conspiring against it. thought that was funny

[The Angry One]

Vaenier wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Here we go again.

1) Chickens aren't sapient creatures, they are animals. 
2) Our society generally looks down on the unecesarry abuse of animals for fun and profit. Reaper society endorses abuse of sapient creatures.

Hmm then what is to say we could not be considered animals, fit only for consumption by a self declared higher lifeform. You do know that the words "Our society" does not represent many countries? Dogs are considered pests in some countries and a consumable meat in korea/china. This is acceptable for their societies but unlikely acceptable for the societies you know.

Because we can communicate with them in a language they understand.
We can use their technology, and make it our own.
Show me a chicken, or a dog, or a primate that can do that and then we'll talk.

dolphins? they can communicate in a simple manner with us, and use tools for problem solving. Could be horribly wrong and my memory has been messed up about discovery chanel show from several years ago.

Not really. Their "communcation" is open to interpretation. They certainly  do not communicate on our level, with our concepts of logic and such.
Plus they have no grasp of our technology or how to use it.
Moreover (again) we're not out to exterminate them.

[marshalleck]

Dave the Seagull wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

applehug wrote...

Except most first-world governments ban hunting primates.

The laws of a country on the opposite side of the world or thousands of miles away are of little consequence where the poaching occurs.

Those are a few hunters doing it for sport, money and monkey meat.

As far as we know all the Reapers attacking. Every single one.

The hunters do it because they believe it is their right to do so as a superior being. The justification is no different for the Reapers. They've done it countless times before and believe they have every right to keep on doing what they do because they perceive themselves to be the pinnacle of existence, the galactic apex predator. Only now do humans realize it's not so nice when it happens to them.

Modifié par marshalleck, 06 mars 2010 - 06:45 .

[superimposed]

The Angry One wrote...

Not this again.

Look, the Reapers kill everybody to consume them. That's evil.
End of story. You do not help the galaxy by turning it into a slaughter house.

You don't hurt it either. In fact, the Galaxy is completely indifferent to anything that happens between species, or to itself.

And the galaxy is only a tiny, tiny thing. There are billions more like it, as equally indifferent.

[The Angry One]

superimposed wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Here we go again.

1) Chickens aren't sapient creatures, they are animals. 
2) Our society generally looks down on the unecesarry abuse of animals for fun and profit. Reaper society endorses abuse of sapient creatures.

Hmm then what is to say we could not be considered animals, fit only for consumption by a self declared higher lifeform. You do know that the words "Our society" does not represent many countries? Dogs are considered pests in some countries and a consumable meat in korea/china. This is acceptable for their societies but unlikely acceptable for the societies you know.

Because we can communicate with them in a language they understand.
We can use their technology, and make it our own.
Show me a chicken, or a dog, or a primate that can do that and then we'll talk.

Show me one you can understand.

Don't be obtuse. There's nothing to understand. Animals do not communicate the way we do. End of story.

[superimposed]

I beg to differ.

http://www.koko.org/index.php

[Vaenier]

The Angry One wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

dolphins? they can communicate in a simple manner with us, and use tools for problem solving. Could be horribly wrong and my memory has been messed up about discovery chanel show from several years ago.

Not really. Their "communcation" is open to interpretation. They certainly  do not communicate on our level, with our concepts of logic and such.
Plus they have no grasp of our technology or how to use it.
Moreover (again) we're not out to exterminate them.

We simplfy our communication so they can understand what we want. Soverign probably does the same when talking to Shep. They communicate at the speed of light. We talk much slower. Must be so annoying for robots to communicate with a human, gets really boring waiting for the next word.

[The Angry One]

marshalleck wrote...

Dave the Seagull wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

applehug wrote...

Except most first-world governments ban hunting primates.

The laws of a country on the opposite side of the world or thousands of miles away are of little consequence where the poaching occurs.

Those are a few hunters doing it for sport, money and monkey meat.

As far as we know all the Reapers attacking. Every single one.

The hunters do it because they believe it is their right to do so as a superior being. The justification is no different for the Reapers. They've done it countless times before and believe they have every right to keep on doing what they do because they perceive themselves to be the pinnacle of existence, the galactic apex predator. Only now do humans realize it's not so nice when it happens to them.

Actually poachers do it for money. They don't care who is superior or not.
Hunters who do it for sport can believe whatever they want. It doesn't make it true and our society doesn't endorse them.
Again, Reaper society endorses galactic genocide and every single Reaper follows this, that is what makes them evil.

[InvaderErl]

A lot of Koko was the animal learning proper stimuli to get a desired response. Dogs do it all the time, hence why they lick you when they want something/your approval.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 06 mars 2010 - 06:48 .

[The Angry One]

Vaenier wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

dolphins? they can communicate in a simple manner with us, and use tools for problem solving. Could be horribly wrong and my memory has been messed up about discovery chanel show from several years ago.

Not really. Their "communcation" is open to interpretation. They certainly  do not communicate on our level, with our concepts of logic and such.
Plus they have no grasp of our technology or how to use it.
Moreover (again) we're not out to exterminate them.

We simplfy our communication so they can understand what we want. Soverign probably does the same when talking to Shep. They communicate at the speed of light. We talk much slower. Must be so annoying for robots to communicate with a human, gets really boring waiting for the next word.

Irrelevant. They can still understand us without room for interpretation.
I'll remind you that the Geth have the same capability, but don't look down on organics for lacking that ability, and the Reapers look down on the Geth.

[marshalleck]

The Angry One wrote...
Actually poachers do it for money. They don't care who is superior or not.
Hunters who do it for sport can believe whatever they want. It doesn't make it true and our society doesn't endorse them.
Again, Reaper society endorses galactic genocide and every single Reaper follows this, that is what makes them evil.

The Reapers apparently do it for reproduction, not for sport or for lulz. Unlike humans. I don't particularly care about notions of good or evil. Just know that anything you wish to incriminate the Reapers for, humans are just as guilty of.

Modifié par marshalleck, 06 mars 2010 - 06:49 .

[InvaderErl]

The Angry One wrote...

the Reapers look down on the
Geth.

"Posers."

Modifié par InvaderErl, 06 mars 2010 - 06:49 .

[superimposed]

InvaderErl wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

the Reapers look down on the
Geth.

"Posers."

[The Angry One]

marshalleck wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Actually poachers do it for money. They don't care who is superior or not.
Hunters who do it for sport can believe whatever they want. It doesn't make it true and our society doesn't endorse them.
Again, Reaper society endorses galactic genocide and every single Reaper follows this, that is what makes them evil.

The Reapers apparently do it for reproduction, not for sport or for lulz. Unlike humans.

No they don't. That's only a part of it. Which by the way makes them irresponsible, since they already have a population that overconsumes an entire galaxy forcing them to hibernate for 50,000 years and they still want more.