272 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Karstedt wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah, and you could give Eezo to a gorilla. It still isn't going to be making submarines.

I think if I sprikled Eezo on most of you, you still won't be making submarines. Did someone imply that Eezo grants submarine building skills? Cause that's just silly!

In Mass Effect, humans found mass relays and Prothean beacons and made technology from those.
I ask again what would a gorilla make out of those? Don't ask what humans would or wouldn't do in real life. I'm talking about the game. In the game it was done.

[Sunnie]

Computron2000 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
No, this doesn't change the fact that they were.

So from your point of view, they were evil but from their point of view they were not. So who defines good and evil?

Did you really just ask that?
/facepalm

[The Angry One]

Vaenier wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

superimposed wrote...

Again, by what standard? What are you using to give value to these advancements?

Are you serious? The intelligence and resources required to split the atom are leagues above what's required to throw a rock at something.

The intelligence and resources required to throw the rock are leagues above what's required to process proteins.
The intelligence and resources required to master FTL are leagues above what's required to split the atom.

Protip: A society that has split the atom is infinitely more capable of mastering an FTL technology than one that throws rocks at each other.

[superimposed]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well the more you know. Carry on!

I was actually going to chime in with an argument but it was pretty much Sunnie22's post on page 3, so it wouldn't fit atm since this thread all of a sudden is about what is sapient v what is sapient.

Sapience is merely awareness. Sentience is subjective comprehension. Neither are unique to any one species on this planet, let alone an entire, fictional galaxy.

[InvaderErl]

There's a lot of high school/ first semester college philosophy going on in here.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 06 mars 2010 - 07:13 .

[superimposed]

The Angry One wrote...

Karstedt wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah, and you could give Eezo to a gorilla. It still isn't going to be making submarines.

I think if I sprikled Eezo on most of you, you still won't be making submarines. Did someone imply that Eezo grants submarine building skills? Cause that's just silly!

In Mass Effect, humans found mass relays and Prothean beacons and made technology from those.
I ask again what would a gorilla make out of those? Don't ask what humans would or wouldn't do in real life. I'm talking about the game. In the game it was done.

And what use would a gorilla have for space travel?

[Computron2000]

The Angry One wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Ok so now it is not about using technology but the ability to make racial equivalent tools (it is very suspect that the Thanix cannon is as powerful as Sovereign's actual weapon) and understanding of the tools.

Understanding of tools trivial. Eg a chimp using a spoon http://www.apa.org/m...0/03/tools.aspx
Make human equivalent tools. Eg a hook http://www.sciencema...ture/data/crow/

Are spoons and hooks the apex of human tool making?
No?
There's your answer.

OK, 3rd time i'm having to work with a changed premise. You asked for understanding of tools, making human equivalents, all done.

So now you are saying that if a species cannot make the "apex of the higher life forms technology", they are then considered lower life forms?

Then humanity is a lower lifeform compared to the Reapers because they (the Reapers) made mass effect relays but all galactic races do not.

Modifié par Computron2000, 06 mars 2010 - 07:14 .

[superimposed]

InvaderErl wrote...

There's a lot of high school/ first semester college philosophy going on in here.

Actually, there's a bit of Evolutionary Biology too, but people are ignoring that.

[Vaenier]

Karstedt wrote...

You suck Vaenier! Making my troll skillz look bad!

I am trolling? I thought I was parlaying in inteligent conversation on the morality of reapers based on technological feats. The Angry One is very fun talking to. Sorry if I have offended.

[The Angry One]

superimposed wrote...

And what use would a gorilla have for space travel?

A gorilla doesn't understand space travel.
If you honestly think a gorilla doesn't advance because it doesn't want to I'm done here.

[InvaderErl]

The Angry One wrote...

superimposed wrote...

And what use would a gorilla have for space travel?

A gorilla doesn't understand space travel.
If you honestly think a gorilla doesn't advance because it doesn't want to I'm done here.

STOP BEING RACIST.

[Miqti]

Environtmentalism is a virtue. However, it is not a virtue the Reapers hold. They destroy life sustaining stars for fuel.



As far as Reaper vs human morals go, I have a hard time believing that we are much better than them. Look at our history! Look at our DNA and see how similar it is to the animals that we 'cull.' (Keep in mind that I eat meat).



Though the ME universe is all about morals, I am not so sure we can call the Reapers - a more capable and higher lifeform than ourselves - evil in respect to how we treat lifeform lesser to us.



This is about survival, not whether we have the moral ground on Reapers.

[The Angry One]

Computron2000 wrote...

OK, 3rd time i'm having to work with a changed premise. You asked for understanding of tools, making human equivalents, all done.

Don't be dishonest. I said human equivalent tools. You assumed I meant rudimentary tools.

So now you are saying that if a species cannot make the "apex of the higher life forms technology", they are then considered lower life forms?

No, if a non-sapient species doesn't even begin to understand the concepts of our society and technology then.. well, they aren't sapient are they?

Then humanity is a lower lifeform compared to the Reapers because they (the Reapers) made mass effect relays but all galactic races do not.

Except the Protheans did, and it's implied the species in the game don't do it because there's no real need to.

[Computron2000]

Sunnie22 wrote...
Did you really just ask that?
/facepalm

Sure, if you dig to the bottom, the answer is interesting

[superimposed]

No, a gorilla has no environmental pressures which would even push it in the direction of mathematics let alone Space Travel. You're assuming Humans are advanced but ignoring the fact that a lot of species on this planet simply had no need to develop a lot of the things we have.

[Karstedt]

Vaenier wrote...

The intelligence and resources required to master FTL are leagues above what's required to split the atom.

Pure supposition. We have yet to acheive FTL, so for all you know we could figure it out next week.

The Angry One wrote...

In Mass Effect, humans found mass relays and Prothean beacons and made
technology from those.
I ask again what would a gorilla make out of
those? Don't ask what humans would or wouldn't do in real life. I'm
talking about the game. In the game it was done.

The beacons are clearly capable of imparting knowledge. I have not seen anything that would confirm or deny that a gorilla has been exposed to mass relays and beacons. So it would be irresponsible to speculate on what would happen with gorillas.

Modifié par Karstedt, 06 mars 2010 - 07:18 .

[InvaderErl]

The beacon only seemed to transmit visual/auditory data. I suspect a Gorilla looking at it would have no more a reaction should you show him a television (well not really since the Beacon would be scarier but you understand my meaning).

[Onyx Jaguar]

Granted to the majority of humans that would most likely have the same effect.

[The Angry One]

superimposed wrote...

No, a gorilla has no environmental pressures which would even push it in the direction of mathematics let alone Space Travel. You're assuming Humans are advanced but ignoring the fact that a lot of species on this planet simply had no need to develop a lot of the things we have.

Technology is driven by necessity, however with that necessity must also be understanding. If you don't develop an understanding of what you need you'll never build on it.
A gorilla may use tools but will not understand how those tools can be built upon to make better tools, to make things easier, to make better tools, and so on.

[superimposed]

But, as the link I posted earlier shows, Gorillas are capable of painting and recognising it in the same way we are.

[InvaderErl]

Exactly. The beacons do nothing to your intelligence level/comprehension/whatever.

[Karstedt]

InvaderErl wrote...

The beacon only seemed to transmit visual/auditory data. I suspect a Gorilla looking at it would have no more a reaction should you show him a television (well not really since the Beacon would be scarier but you understand my meaning).

Shepard would dissagree. It lifted him/her in that air and knocked him unconscious the first time. That sure didn't happen to me when I watched TV the first time.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Yes, these Gorillas need outliers in order to properly advance!

[InvaderErl]

[quote]Karstedt wrote...

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

The
beacon only seemed to transmit visual/auditory data. I suspect a Gorilla
looking at it would have no more a reaction should you show him a
television (well not really since the Beacon would be scarier but you
understand my meaning).[/quote]
 

I SAID SCARIER DAMN IT.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 06 mars 2010 - 07:21 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

LOL

EDIT: STILL LOL

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 06 mars 2010 - 07:22 .