312 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

Giving our actions consequences would cost a lot of money?

[jlb524]

What important things are they up too? Liara is screwing around with her pointless vengeance against the Shadow Broker. Ashley and Kaidan are working for the Alliance (an organization that states the Reaper threat is a myth) fixing defense towers on remote colonies. I would think helping Shepard defeat the Reapers (who are supposedly this big galactic threat) would be the more important thing. I'd be OK with this if they were helping 'behind the scenes'. This would be an important cameo. They're not though.



If Shepard fails the mission against the Reapers, there's no Shadow Broker for Liara to kill. There's no Alliance for Ashley/Kaidan to serve. There's no Krogan for Wrex to reunite. There's nothing.

[MassAffected]

[Onyx Jaguar]

Thats pretty much what I said in that post?

[Clover Rider]

jlb524 wrote...

What important things are they up too? Liara is screwing around with her pointless vengeance against the Shadow Broker. Ashley and Kaidan are working for the Alliance (an organization that states the Reaper threat is a myth) fixing defense towers on remote colonies. I would think helping Shepard defeat the Reapers (who are supposedly this big galactic threat) would be the more important thing. I'd be OK with this if they were helping 'behind the scenes'. This would be an important cameo. They're not though.

If Shepard fails the mission against the Reapers, there's no Shadow Broker for Liara to kill. There's no Alliance for Ashley/Kaidan to serve. There's no Krogan for Wrex to reunite. There's nothing.

:blink:Wow you do just think of Liara as a gun 

[MassAffected]

Thinking back on this thread...

<_<

[Onyx Jaguar]

Thats all I got, this is as big of an impasse as I have ever seen

[Clover Rider]

MassAffected wrote...

Thinking back on this thread...

<_<

That's what the Liara fans say about ME2 and that is not a joke 

[ObserverStatus]

jlb524 wrote...

What important things are they up too? Liara is screwing around with her pointless vengeance against the Shadow Broker. Ashley and Kaidan are working for the Alliance (an organization that states the Reaper threat is a myth) fixing defense towers on remote colonies. I would think helping Shepard defeat the Reapers (who are supposedly this big galactic threat) would be the more important thing. I'd be OK with this if they were helping 'behind the scenes'. This would be an important cameo. They're not though.

If Shepard fails the mission against the Reapers, there's no Shadow Broker for Liara to kill. There's no Alliance for Ashley/Kaidan to serve. There's no Krogan for Wrex to reunite. There's nothing.

The shadow broker has it coming, he killed Feron.

[MassAffected]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Thats all I got, this is as big of an impasse as I have ever seen

We can't win them all...

[jtav]

Here's the thing about Liara (and I will confine my discussion to them since the Ash/Kaidan fans are being quiet): you may not like the direction she's going in, but at least she has a direction. She wants things that aren't Shepard, and she's in danger of turning into her mom. That's prime tragic hero material, and, to my mind, more interesting than a teenager falling for her first love. It would have been impossible if Liara hadn't been separated from Shepard.

ME2 Liara is interesting because she's flawed, and the writers know it. Her being obsessed with the Shadow Broker when she should be worrying about the Reapers isn't good, and it isn't being presented as good.

Modifié par jtav, 11 mars 2010 - 02:27 .

[Nozybidaj]

jlb524 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I would be more sympathetic, but when you start saying that ME 2 isn't a sequel its hard for me to take you seriously.

I wouldn't say it wasn't a sequel, it was just a crappy sequel.

Go back to what Chris Priestly said in the old forum.  It is a sequel to ME1 the same way that Temple of Doom was a sequel to Raiders of the Lost Arc.  They both have Indiana Jones in the title and they follow one after the other.  That's about it.

Some were expecting something more along the lines of getting an Empire Strikes Back to A New Hope type of sequel.

BW decided to go with a collected adventures type tail instead of an over arcing story.  I suppose that in and of itself wouldn't have been so bad, but with all the talk of "a story spanning three chapters" and "decisions from one game affecting the others" you can't really blame folks for expecting a more cohesive story to follow through.

This thread though is a good example of why good discussion is so rare on this forum, watching the thread degrade into a series of folks with no argument simply hounding jlb for being a Liara fan.  Typical really.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Nozybidaj wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I would be more sympathetic, but when you start saying that ME 2 isn't a sequel its hard for me to take you seriously.

I wouldn't say it wasn't a sequel, it was just a crappy sequel.

Go back to what Chris Priestly said in the old forum.  It is a sequel to ME1 the same way that Temple of Doom was a sequel to Raiders of the Lost Arc.  They both have Indiana Jones in the title and they follow one after the other.  That's about it.

Some were expecting something more along the lines of getting an Empire Strikes Back to A New Hope type of sequel.

BW decided to go with a collected adventures type tail instead of an over arcing story.  I suppose that in and of itself wouldn't have been so bad, but with all the talk of "a story spanning three chapters" and "decisions from one game affecting the others" you can't really blame folks for expecting a more cohesive story to follow through.

This thread though is a good example of why good discussion is so rare on this forum, watching the thread degrade into a series of folks with no argument simply hounding jlb for being a Liara fan.  Typical really.

Yes because thats what I was doing.

Thank you sir I toast to your logic.

[Nozybidaj]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Yes because thats what I was doing.

Thank you sir I toast to your logic.

Yes, you MassAffected, jtav and the rest have really displayed a level of maturity rarely seen outside the WoW forums and 4chan.  Bravo.

[Onyx Jaguar]

**** you Nozy, if you would have actually read what I said you wouldn't have said something so ignorant

[Nozybidaj]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

**** you Nozy,

Now that is a top quality argument.  You have proven me wrong good sir.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I'm not arguing with you, if you had read the previous page and said something productive in response to what I had said, no problem. Instead you seem to deliberately be trying to pick a fight with me and that I have no time for.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nozybidaj wrote...
This thread though is a good example of why good discussion is so rare on this forum, watching the thread degrade into a series of folks with no argument simply hounding jlb for being a Liara fan.  Typical really.

Good discussion = bashing Bioware and Mass Effect 2. Glorifying Liara.

Trolling = Genuinely thinking Bioware did a great job with Mass Effect 2. Bashing Liara.

Tis true!

[Nozybidaj]

Ah yes, a Liara fan bashing thread isn't complete till Surface shows up. Guess we can call it a wrap now.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Ah yes, a Liara fan bashing thread isn't complete till Surface shows up. Guess we can call it a wrap now.

I didn't read any of this thread except the last 5 comments. What'd I miss? Anything juicy I can add to my voodoo shrine to Liara's demise?

[Nozybidaj]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I'm not arguing with you, if you had read the previous page and said something productive in response to what I had said, no problem. Instead you seem to deliberately be trying to pick a fight with me and that I have no time for.

I'll admit, I didn't read every post while I was catching up.  Between MassAffected and the others rubbing their hands in glee over bashing jlb I may have missed an actual post in there somewhere.  My apologies if I incorrectly lumped you in there with them.

[Nozybidaj]

jlb524 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

define quality

For the sequel of a trilogy...well for one thing, the characters that were most important to the protagonist shouldn't be dropped.  Second, the plot should continue on smoothly from one installment to another and not have a reset in the middle.   I feel ME2 is a reset in order to appeal to new players because:

1)  They removed old characters and replaced them.
2) All that trouble convincing the Council of the Reaper threat?  Reset...they don't believe you anymore.
3)  All the trouble becoming humanities first Spectre?  Reset...doesn't even matter as you're forced to work with Cerberus.

I think the original Star Wars did a good job, if you want an example of quality.  

If Empire Strikes Back was ME2, Han, Leia, and Chewie would've been side-lined for new people, leaving only C3PO and R2D2 remaining from New Hope.  The main mission would've been to blow up a Storm Trooper base.  References to the Empire would've been made of course, but only in passing here and there.

Exactly this.  If Lucas had try to pull what BW pulled with ME2 he would have been laughed out of the film industry.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Aww, people were picking on jib in this thread? That's totally uncalled for. Did they steal his lunch money and give him an internet wedgie too? Damn internet bullies.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nozybidaj wrote...
Exactly this.  If Lucas had try to pull what BW pulled with ME2 he would have been laughed out of the film industry

Are you implying that Lucas is a respected member of the film industry and beloved by the fans of Star Wars?

Sir... I have news for you.

[jlb524]

I'm just discussing my disappointment with an aspect of the game and how I think a similar thing will happen with the ME2 crew in ME3. I don't see why that offends people.

But go ahead and call me names...that's fine.  I love ad hominems.

Modifié par jlb524, 11 mars 2010 - 03:19 .