312 réponses à ce sujet

[MassAffected]

I just want them ALL back, ME1 and ME2...I play a male Shepard and I missed not having Kaiden in my squad. Not to the point where I'm going to rage about it every single day on the forums, but I did miss him.

[Lemonwizard]

EDIT: Err, massively botched quote tags.

Modifié par Lemonwizard, 10 mars 2010 - 07:25 .

[KainrycKarr]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Circular argument is circular. Both sides have pros and cons. It all boils down to how Bioware will choose to handle it. Period.

Quoting myself because I have nothing more to contribute. Sue me.

[Nozybidaj]

Yeled wrote...
No, that's not what I want.  I actually thought ME2 was good, it just didn't resonate with me like it could have.

My point is that the bias goes both ways.  According to JeanLuc ME1 characters were irrelevant to the suicide mission and that justifies their ommission.  I'm trying to point out that they weren't irrelevant to shepard (at least not a lot of people's), and that alone justifies their inclusion.  Meanwhile many ME2 characters were just as irrelevant to the story, but people don't see that because they liked them.

As for replacements for ME1 characters, just ask yourself if you'd be ok with a Tali or Miranda or Garrus replacement and see how well that sits.

Its bias on both sides, and its not fair to accuse one side of it when the other side is equally bad.

Exactly, if the "majority" of folks liked the way characters were handled in ME2 I think BW should take that feedback and apply it to the next game.  Allow these characters from ME2 to have an "important" role in ME3 and just use some replacement characters for them in the squad.

If the "majority" opinion here is the ME1 characters were handled well in ME2 I think it would be a great opportunity to use that same philosophy in ME3 to make sure these characters folks have grown so attached to are able to be included in ME3.

Sure they aren't squad mates and they won't have large roles or much screen time per say, but if we feel that these types of "cameos" are a great way to include a character as part of a "continuing" story than I would be more than happy for these folks to get exactly what they are asking for.

[Yeled]

KainrycKarr wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Circular argument is circular. Both sides have pros and cons. It all boils down to how Bioware will choose to handle it. Period.

Quoting myself because I have nothing more to contribute. Sue me.

Ok then, well, we might as well shut down the forums then.  Since discussion is useless.

[Knoll Argonar]

Yeled wrote...

Knoll Argonar wrote...

But aren't ME1 character (except Wrex) already CONFIRMED as squaddies in ME3?

I though that was the reason they were cameos in ME2 O_O

No, we were told they weren't included so they would be alive for ME3.  That implies they have a role to play, but it could just be a cameo again.  My guess is they want them alive so they can do something with the people who cheated on their ME1 LI.  It could be more than that, but it might also only be that.

Hell, then I misread Hudson' speech to "protect important characters from ME1 to be sure they appear again in ME3".

Just to say: obviously for the sake of everyone both ME2 and ME1 characters should be in ME3, maybe with some different roles for some (like Mordin who is f*cking old, Zaeed who is a mercenary, Thane, an almost dead drell or Wrex who is the leader of Clan Urdnot), but if I had to choose i'd prefer ME2 squaddies to come back, since I already have them in the Normandy =/

Anyway, I believe in everyone's returning.

[KainrycKarr]

Yeled wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Circular argument is circular. Both sides have pros and cons. It all boils down to how Bioware will choose to handle it. Period.

Quoting myself because I have nothing more to contribute. Sue me.

Ok then, well, we might as well shut down the forums then.  Since discussion is useless.

No, just this one. Because it's been discussed. Over. and over. and over. and over.

both sides have completely valid arguments and counter arguments.

and lets face it, aside from EVERYONE advocating the return or BOTH me1 and me2 squaddies (which I do, for the record), noone is going to change their minds.

Therefore, just let it go until we know more information.

[Xaijin]

To avoid all the histrionics, but the characters also have their lives to live. Why Wrex is not part of Bro Force/Team Interesting Elevator Conversation (Garrus, Wrex, Shep) is pretty cut and dried. Virtually ANYONE in ME2 could die (except Miranda, who's apparently some kind of super zombie), including of course everybody in metagame.

I think it's pretty certain that unless a HUGE amount of time passes, some folks will be where they are "now".

Tali is literally part of the Normandy, so is EDI, Joker. but they might not be on your crew-team, or maybe something happens.

If you listen well, there's a potential cure for Thane BUT that doesn't mean he takes it if it's developed, and it doesn't mean he's still part of the crew even if he does.

Grunt seems pretty set in, but maybe some nasty sh!+ takes place on Tuchanka and he has to go back, or maybe he goes back to breed so his uber genes can ease off the "Cure" to the Krogan problem. Hell, maybe Wrex gets chased off or literally booted off and ends up with you again.

Mordin is getting up there in years... he's an absolutely great character but who knows.

Miranda could be the new Illusive Man, determined to build a kindler gentler Dog from Hades.

Maybe Jack's implants finally give up and she can't take it, or maybe having Mordin on board and survive gives her a cure/fix

Garrus sets off on his own or he stays as the backbone of ultimate bro force.. who knows.

Legion could stay to does what he designed to do, or maybe he goes to be the anthro-ambassador...

When you factor opinion out (something very hard to do) there's reason for going OR staying and everything in between.

Modifié par Xaijin, 10 mars 2010 - 07:29 .

[MassAffected]

Ocelot83 wrote...

I don't want to copy the whole message here, so I'll just post the link:
http://social.biowar...05/index/918247

Good post in that OP.

[MassAffected]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Yeled wrote...
No, that's not what I want.  I actually thought ME2 was good, it just didn't resonate with me like it could have.

My point is that the bias goes both ways.  According to JeanLuc ME1 characters were irrelevant to the suicide mission and that justifies their ommission.  I'm trying to point out that they weren't irrelevant to shepard (at least not a lot of people's), and that alone justifies their inclusion.  Meanwhile many ME2 characters were just as irrelevant to the story, but people don't see that because they liked them.

As for replacements for ME1 characters, just ask yourself if you'd be ok with a Tali or Miranda or Garrus replacement and see how well that sits.

Its bias on both sides, and its not fair to accuse one side of it when the other side is equally bad.

Exactly, if the "majority" of folks liked the way characters were handled in ME2 I think BW should take that feedback and apply it to the next game.  Allow these characters from ME2 to have an "important" role in ME3 and just use some replacement characters for them in the squad.

If the "majority" opinion here is the ME1 characters were handled well in ME2 I think it would be a great opportunity to use that same philosophy in ME3 to make sure these characters folks have grown so attached to are able to be included in ME3.

Sure they aren't squad mates and they won't have large roles or much screen time per say, but if we feel that these types of "cameos" are a great way to include a character as part of a "continuing" story than I would be more than happy for these folks to get exactly what they are asking for.

You're twisting people's words to prove a point...you know, I'm actually going to go ahead and ignore your posts from now on. It will save me the headache. Let the hate flow Nozy you're real good at that.

[alxwak]

The only major side-storylines in ME2 left are the Krogans and the Quarians vs Geth.Major decisions (like the Base) are resolved until the end.The only thing from the storyline that maybe play a major role long term is Legion.If you sold to Cerberus,will future Geth be hostile? If you kept him,would they be frinedly towards you (I keep the Quarians out of this)?

And finally two things about crew members:

1.The ones we saved and BW is planning on beeing playable on ME3,should be a bit more powerful.That's what "experience" is all about!

2.I would really hate to see Sephard lose another love interest.If this keeps up,I believe in the end (if he/she survives) would be an alcoholic mourning his/her bad luck in love!



P.S. BW says that ME will end with part 3,but the universe will stay alive.I believe that Krogans and Quarians vs Geth will be resolved in other games.

[jlb524]

Yeled wrote...


I think some of that is generated by the lack of sympathy a lot of people show them, as well as the way people seem to ignore what happened in the past when thinking about ME2 characters in ME3.  Its annoying to be told, oh yeah, screw Liara, she was handled properly when no fan of Tali or Garrus or Miranda or Thane would accept the same thing for their favorite character.

Yeah, I can't understand the lack of sympathy for Liara/Ashley/Kaidan fans.  Of course we're bitter...wouldn't the ME2 LI fans be bitter if come ME3 their ME2 LI gets only a crappy cameo?

Personally, I'm apathetic to the ME2 crew's being in ME3.  If they're squad mates in ME3 again, that's fine as long as they don't take Liara/Ashley/Kaidan's spots.  If they're not in, also fine.

[Yeled]

jlb524 wrote...

Yeled wrote...


I think some of that is generated by the lack of sympathy a lot of people show them, as well as the way people seem to ignore what happened in the past when thinking about ME2 characters in ME3.  Its annoying to be told, oh yeah, screw Liara, she was handled properly when no fan of Tali or Garrus or Miranda or Thane would accept the same thing for their favorite character.

Yeah, I can't understand the lack of sympathy for Liara/Ashley/Kaidan fans.  Of course we're bitter...wouldn't the ME2 LI fans be bitter if come ME3 their ME2 LI gets only a crappy cameo?

They should almost be saying, "There but for the grace of Bioware go I."  Which I guess they are, since they are advocating to keep their favorite in.  But it doesn't carry through to putting everything in context of what already transpired.

[Nozybidaj]

Knoll Argonar wrote...

Hell, then I misread Hudson' speech to "protect important characters from ME1 to be sure they appear again in ME3".

Here you go, from his Best Buy Chat:

CaseyH-ME2: We actually want to
make sure these characters survive the ME2 story, which ultimately is a
suicide mission: some of your crew will almost certainly die. Some of
the ME1 characters are back, and recruitable (more than you might
think), and the ones that aren't still play an important role in the
story and will be around for ME3 - which we can't say for the new
characters.

docs.google.com/View

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 10 mars 2010 - 07:43 .

[Knoll Argonar]

jlb524 wrote...

Yeled wrote...


I think some of that is generated by the lack of sympathy a lot of people show them, as well as the way people seem to ignore what happened in the past when thinking about ME2 characters in ME3.  Its annoying to be told, oh yeah, screw Liara, she was handled properly when no fan of Tali or Garrus or Miranda or Thane would accept the same thing for their favorite character.

Yeah, I can't understand the lack of sympathy for Liara/Ashley/Kaidan fans.  Of course we're bitter...wouldn't the ME2 LI fans be bitter if come ME3 their ME2 LI gets only a crappy cameo?

I said before, but I wouldn't if I was sure they'd play a role in ME4.

But as there's only ME3, that's quite the problem. Just think about it: you still have ME3 left. Well, I correct myself: we all have ME3 left. Cameos for ME2 characters in ME3 would stay as what they are: cameos.

Thinking about it, though, wouldn't mind to see Mordin as my wise-man tech-lab leader in the Normandy and not as a squaddie anymore. He's just too old.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Its hard to take Bioware seriously in regards to the alliance soldiers. During ME 1 they were the most fleshed out characters but after one of them died they just merged together into one character regardless. Ashley slightly more antagonistic but it was still lazy writing.



In fact I find it hard to take much of ME 1's characters that seriously after playing it again except for the alliance soldiers.



Liara: I like what she represents, but used mainly as a plot device in the game

Garrus: He's just there, nothing more nothing less.

Tali: Used to not thing she was annoying, but after playing ME 2 then going back to ME 1 she REALLY got on my nerves

Wrex: Is the most fleshed out on actual missions, but at times his dialogue can be predictable



Since ME 3 is suppose to come out soon it would be really disapointing for them to abandon what they accomplished character wise in ME 2 with those characters just because it would be easier and less costly. There really isn't that much dialogue per character in the ME games compared to DA so there is no reason why they couldn't keep all these characters in ME 3 unless they just want to save a little bit of money.

[Barquiel]

or here
http://uk.xbox360.ig.../1055366p2.html

"Because we wanted to make sure the love interest can remain an
important and integral part of the story, we want that to continue into
the third game. We have some really important things we want to resolve
there. That means we can't have these characters that were your love
interests in this suicide mission potentially getting killed and then
blocking off that opportunity. They're part of the story. They're part
of the ongoing love story but they're not your squad members so that we
can be sure that we can bring that love story to its conclusion."

[Akeashar]

I really don't know how people can be bitter about Ashley/Kaiden and Liara being cameos, since Bioware said from the beginning thats how the LI characters were going to be dealt with in ME2 and then they'd be back in the squad in ME3. Its not like they sprung this on you when the game came out, it had been planned from the get-go. Liara's role was actually bigger in ME2 than I was expecting it to be. So, with the LI on ice in ME2, that left... Wrex, Garrus and Tali. Two of which we get back on the squad, while the other is again a cameo based off if hes dead or not.



... personally, I'd rather get Wrex back than have Grunt in ME3, but thats really something to be gone into in a different thread. ^^;

[Akeashar]

... and beaten to the punch while typing by two people that actually found the quotes regarding the LI. XD

[DarthCaine]

Barquiel wrote...

or here
http://uk.xbox360.ig.../1055366p2.html

"Because we wanted to make sure the love interest can remain an
important and integral part of the story, we want that to continue into
the third game. We have some really important things we want to resolve
there. That means we can't have these characters that were your love
interests in this suicide mission potentially getting killed and then
blocking off that opportunity. They're part of the story. They're part
of the ongoing love story but they're not your squad members so that we
can be sure that we can bring that love story to its conclusion."

And you believe that?
They're just trying to BS themselves out

[MassAffected]

Where the hell is the roll eyes smiley?

[Yeled]

Barquiel wrote...

or here
http://uk.xbox360.ig.../1055366p2.html

"Because we wanted to make sure the love interest can remain an
important and integral part of the story, we want that to continue into
the third game. We have some really important things we want to resolve
there. That means we can't have these characters that were your love
interests in this suicide mission potentially getting killed and then
blocking off that opportunity. They're part of the story. They're part
of the ongoing love story but they're not your squad members so that we
can be sure that we can bring that love story to its conclusion."

Yeah, except there was no love story for the ME1 LIs in ME2.  It was just...nothing.  It really doesn't ring very true when you read comments like that.

[jtav]

I think the lack of sympathy comes from the belief that not only will the ME LIs be back, they'll have major roles. It would be impossible fpr them to have those major roles if they could have died. All most ME1 fans have to do is be patient, and you'll get a heck of a payoff. There's a difference between "wait for it" and "you'll never get it"

[Barquiel]

DarthCaine wrote...

And you believe that?
They're just trying to BS themselves out

I believe they will be plot relevant (Liara vs SB)
squadmate status? Who knows...

Modifié par Barquiel, 10 mars 2010 - 07:52 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

DarthCaine wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

or here
http://uk.xbox360.ig.../1055366p2.html

"Because we wanted to make sure the love interest can remain an
important and integral part of the story, we want that to continue into
the third game. We have some really important things we want to resolve
there. That means we can't have these characters that were your love
interests in this suicide mission potentially getting killed and then
blocking off that opportunity. They're part of the story. They're part
of the ongoing love story but they're not your squad members so that we
can be sure that we can bring that love story to its conclusion."

And you believe that?
They're just trying to BS themselves out

Yeah, Bioware always does this (points to Awakenings) its hard to take them seriously on comments like that.