312 réponses à ce sujet

[JeanLuc761]

Yeled wrote...
They should almost be saying, "There but for the grace of Bioware go I."  Which I guess they are, since they are advocating to keep their favorite in.  But it doesn't carry through to putting everything in context of what already transpired.

While true, it's also important to remember the context of the story.  Ashley/Kaiden, Liara and Wrex were all extremely busy in Mass Effect 2 which is why they couldn't join your squad.  Some people may argue "Well, then you could say that the Mass Effect 2 characters will be busy in ME3 so they'll be gone too!" but let's look at what we've left off with.

Likely Unjustifiable
Grunt:  Shepard is Grunt's battlemaster and has literally no reason at all to leave the Normandy.
Garrus:  Shepard's best friend/love interest who has proven himself to be the galaxy's top rogue.  He also hates C-sec, so he has no justification to leave.
Tali:  Tali'Zorah vas Normandy is part of the ship now.  Her only possible justification for leaving would be to rally the Quarians, but given she could have been exiled in Mass Effect 2, she's almost guaranteed to be a squadmate.
Mordin:  Extremely important to the mission success (research upgrades), and enjoys the Normandy lab.
Miranda:  Quit Cerberus at the end of Mass Effect 2 and will likely need Shepard to protect herself and her family.

Could be Justifiable
Jacob:  There really isn't much to his character though he may follow suit with Miranda.  I'm really not sure with him.
Thane:  Depending on how much time passes, Thane could be dead, or he could be cured.  Way too many variables with him.
Legion: Has a decent chance of leaving to rally the Geth fleet against the Reapers, but his fascination with Shepard makes me question that.
Samara:  As a Justicar, she only swore an oath to Shepard for the suicide mission.  Despite this, she says "If you call for me, I'll come." 
Jack: She's a wild cannon to be sure, but she may have developed a strong appreciation for genuine human contact while serving on the Normandy.


Now then, I could be COMPLETELY wrong here and Bioware could pull something at the start of Mass Effect 3 that breaks your squad apart again but I'm just going off what we know so far.

[JeanLuc761]

-Gah, double post

Modifié par JeanLuc761, 10 mars 2010 - 07:50 .

[Yeled]

Akeashar wrote...

I really don't know how people can be bitter about Ashley/Kaiden and Liara being cameos, since Bioware said from the beginning thats how the LI characters were going to be dealt with in ME2 and then they'd be back in the squad in ME3. Its not like they sprung this on you when the game came out, it had been planned from the get-go. Liara's role was actually bigger in ME2 than I was expecting it to be. So, with the LI on ice in ME2, that left... Wrex, Garrus and Tali. Two of which we get back on the squad, while the other is again a cameo based off if hes dead or not.

... personally, I'd rather get Wrex back than have Grunt in ME3, but thats really something to be gone into in a different thread. ^^;

Its not really that they were cameo's.  Its that the cameo's they got were terrible, felt contrived, didn't really incorportate anything from ME1, and were very, very frustrating.  We weren't prepared for how poorly they would be handled.

If they had given the ME1 LI's cameo's that acknowledged and continued the relationships and added depth to the characters then I would have been ok with them.  Instead I almost would have rather had no cameo's at all.

[Nozybidaj]

Yeled wrote...

Its not really that they were cameo's.  Its that the cameo's they got were terrible, felt contrived, didn't really incorportate anything from ME1, and were very, very frustrating.  We weren't prepared for how poorly they would be handled.

If they had given the ME1 LI's cameo's that acknowledged and continued the relationships and added depth to the characters then I would have been ok with them.  Instead I almost would have rather had no cameo's at all.

Agreed.  Not being a squad mate would have been fine if their and Shepard's story had continued.  Instead what we got was the most lack luster and completely uncaring effort I have ever seen BW put into an aspect of any of their games.

[jlb524]

Knoll Argonar wrote...

I said before, but I wouldn't if I was sure they'd play a role in ME4.

But as there's only ME3, that's quite the problem. Just think about it: you still have ME3 left. Well, I correct myself: we all have ME3 left. Cameos for ME2 characters in ME3 would stay as what they are: cameos.

Thinking about it, though, wouldn't mind to see Mordin as my wise-man tech-lab leader in the Normandy and not as a squaddie anymore. He's just too old.

We don't know yet for sure if the ME1 crew will be in ME3 as squad mates.  They could get a crappy cameo as well.  The day it's announced that they are in ME3 is the day my bitterness will disappear.  Until then I'm expecting the worst-case scenario.

[Yeled]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

While true, it's also important to remember the context of the story.  Ashley/Kaiden, Liara and Wrex were all extremely busy in Mass Effect 2 which is why they couldn't join your squad.  Some people may argue "Well, then you could say that the Mass Effect 2 characters will be busy in ME3 so they'll be gone too!" but let's look at what we've left off with.

Likely Unjustifiable
Grunt:  Shepard is Grunt's battlemaster and has literally no reason at all to leave the Normandy.
Garrus:  Shepard's best friend/love interest who has proven himself to be the galaxy's top rogue.  He also hates C-sec, so he has no justification to leave.
Tali:  Tali'Zorah vas Normandy is part of the ship now.  Her only possible justification for leaving would be to rally the Quarians, but given she could have been exiled in Mass Effect 2, she's almost guaranteed to be a squadmate.
Mordin:  Extremely important to the mission success (research upgrades), and enjoys the Normandy lab.
Miranda:  Quit Cerberus at the end of Mass Effect 2 and will likely need Shepard to protect herself and her family.

Could be Justifiable
Jacob:  There really isn't much to his character though he may follow suit with Miranda.  I'm really not sure with him.
Thane:  Depending on how much time passes, Thane could be dead, or he could be cured.  Way too many variables with him.
Legion: Has a decent chance of leaving to rally the Geth fleet against the Reapers, but his fascination with Shepard makes me question that.
Samara:  As a Justicar, she only swore an oath to Shepard for the suicide mission.  Despite this, she says "If you call for me, I'll come." 
Jack: She's a wild cannon to be sure, but she may have developed a strong appreciation for genuine human contact while serving on the Normandy.


Now then, I could be COMPLETELY wrong here and Bioware could pull something at the start of Mass Effect 3 that breaks your squad apart again but I'm just going off what we know so far.

Yeah, but its easy to justify any of them leaving.  When we left off ME1, you would have never imagined a justifiable reason to have Liara, Ash, Kaiden, Wrex, or Garrus leave.  Tali was the only one who it made perfect sense for her to take off.  They made something up to get rid of the rest of them, but you couldn't see it coming.

And anyway, I can justify any of your unjustifiable characters.  Take Grunt:  Gets called back to fight for his tribe.  Or Mordin:  Needed to work on some Genphage problem.  Or Tali:  Geth and Quarians go to war.

Its not difficult.

[Yeled]

jlb524 wrote...

Knoll Argonar wrote...

I said before, but I wouldn't if I was sure they'd play a role in ME4.

But as there's only ME3, that's quite the problem. Just think about it: you still have ME3 left. Well, I correct myself: we all have ME3 left. Cameos for ME2 characters in ME3 would stay as what they are: cameos.

Thinking about it, though, wouldn't mind to see Mordin as my wise-man tech-lab leader in the Normandy and not as a squaddie anymore. He's just too old.

We don't know yet for sure if the ME1 crew will be in ME3 as squad mates.  They could get a crappy cameo as well.  The day it's announced that they are in ME3 is the day my bitterness will disappear.  Until then I'm expecting the worst-case scenario.

100 percent agreed.

[Nozybidaj]

Just gonna post this again and bold the important part for everyone;

CaseyH-ME2: We actually want to make sure these characters survive the ME2 story, which ultimately is a suicide mission: some of your crew will almost certainly die. Some of the ME1 characters are back, and recruitable (more  than you might think), and the ones that aren't still play an important role in the story  and will be around for ME3 - which we can't say for the new characters.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 10 mars 2010 - 07:57 .

[jtav]

If the ME1 Lis aren't recruitable or at least habe a progression of the romance plot, then you have aright to be upset. I hope you agree that the converse is also true. No set of characters should be privileged over the other for the finale.

[MassAffected]

jtav wrote...

If the ME1 Lis aren't recruitable or at least habe a progression of the romance plot, then you have aright to be upset. I hope you agree that the converse is also true. No set of characters should be privileged over the other for the finale.

Yes.

[JeanLuc761]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Just gonna post this again and bold the important part for everyone;

CaseyH-ME2: We actually want to make sure these characters survive the ME2 story, which ultimately is a suicide mission: some of your crew will almost certainly die. Some of the ME1 characters are back, and recruitable (more  than you might think), and the ones that aren't still play an important role in the story  and will be around for ME3 - which we can't say for the new characters.

Yeah, that admittedly does concern me.  That could just be a literal translation of "Well, if they died they won't be around, duh," but it could also easily mean "Nobody you recruit in Mass Effect 2 is important in any way.  They'll be put in the backseat for Mass Effect 3." 

A little harsh, but that's pretty much what I'm gathering from it.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Just gonna post this again and bold the important part for everyone;

CaseyH-ME2: We actually want to make sure these characters survive the ME2 story, which ultimately is a suicide mission: some of your crew will almost certainly die. Some of the ME1 characters are back, and recruitable (more  than you might think), and the ones that aren't still play an important role in the story  and will be around for ME3 - which we can't say for the new characters.

I can't take any of that seriously that is just ME 2 hype while trying ot calm down those who had LI's in the first ME.  Some of your crew will almost certainly die?  Yeah, pure Hype

Some of the ME1 characters are back and recruitable more thn you might think?  What 2?  I only thought one was coming back?  Pure hype

[jlb524]

Akeashar wrote...

I really don't know how people can be bitter about Ashley/Kaiden and Liara being cameos, since Bioware said from the beginning thats how the LI characters were going to be dealt with in ME2 and then they'd be back in the squad in ME3. Its not like they sprung this on you when the game came out, it had been planned from the get-go. Liara's role was actually bigger in ME2 than I was expecting it to be. So, with the LI on ice in ME2, that left... Wrex, Garrus and Tali. Two of which we get back on the squad, while the other is again a cameo based off if hes dead or not.

They didn't say that they will only be cameos from the beginning of ME2's development though.  That bomb was dropped on us justs months before the games release.  I think it was around November of last year.

We had no idea what they were planning with these characters 'from the get-go'.  For months leading up to the release of ME2, a lot of us still had hopes that these squad mates would return as squad mates in ME2.  The devs were quiet on this.  Only Wrex was confirmed as a cameo early on.

Then it was announced these ME1 characters wouldn't be recruitable as squad mates, but would still have an 'important role' in the game.  Most were crushed about not having Ash/Kaidan/Liara as squad mates, but still had hopes for the cameo.  As others mentioned, we would have been quite happy if this small cameo was handled well and these squad mates did indeed have a small but 'important' role.  Most were dissapointed with their roles ME2 (especially Liara fans).  They weren't 'important' or 'meaningful' at all.  So, we're now doubly bitter.

Modifié par jlb524, 10 mars 2010 - 08:02 .

[Yeled]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Just gonna post this again and bold the important part for everyone;

CaseyH-ME2: We actually want to make sure these characters survive the ME2 story, which ultimately is a suicide mission: some of your crew will almost certainly die. Some of the ME1 characters are back, and recruitable (more  than you might think), and the ones that aren't still play an important role in the story  and will be around for ME3 - which we can't say for the new characters.

Yeah, that admittedly does concern me.  That could just be a literal translation of "Well, if they died they won't be around, duh," but it could also easily mean "Nobody you recruit in Mass Effect 2 is important in any way.  They'll be put in the backseat for Mass Effect 3." 

A little harsh, but that's pretty much what I'm gathering from it.

Just to argue the other side...

I would take what Casey Hudson says with a grain of salt.  I don't expect they knew exactly what ME3 would be when he said that, and things are still probably subject to change.  I think anything can happen at this point.  Which is why as a Liara fan I'm just as nervous as you are.

[Yeled]

jtav wrote...

If the ME1 Lis aren't recruitable or at least habe a progression of the romance plot, then you have aright to be upset. I hope you agree that the converse is also true. No set of characters should be privileged over the other for the finale.

I agree with that, but don't you think we have a right to be disappointed/upset with how they were handled in ME2 as well?

[jlb524]

I take anything Casey says with a grain of salt as well. He was just probably blowing smoke up our a**es. (By 'our' I mean those fans who loved the ME1 crew and want them back).

For all we know, none of the ME1 LI's will be back as squad mates in ME3 and all the ME2 squad mates will be back, making that quote total marketing bull. I wouldn't be surprised by this.  It's even what I expect to happen.

Modifié par jlb524, 10 mars 2010 - 08:11 .

[jtav]

Yeled wrote...

jtav wrote...

If the ME1 Lis aren't recruitable or at least habe a progression of the romance plot, then you have aright to be upset. I hope you agree that the converse is also true. No set of characters should be privileged over the other for the finale.

I agree with that, but don't you think we have a right to be disappointed/upset with how they were handled in ME2 as well?

Of course you have a right to be upset. But some posters who aren't you seem to be more interested in ensuring that we're all upset rather than hoping and campaigning for us all to be equally happy. Some posts on here read as "I didn't get what I want, so you shouldn't either." That is what infuriates me.

[Knoll Argonar]

jtav wrote...

Yeled wrote...

jtav wrote...

If the ME1 Lis aren't recruitable or at least habe a progression of the romance plot, then you have aright to be upset. I hope you agree that the converse is also true. No set of characters should be privileged over the other for the finale.

I agree with that, but don't you think we have a right to be disappointed/upset with how they were handled in ME2 as well?

Of course you have a right to be upset. But some posters who aren't you seem to be more interested in ensuring that we're all upset rather than hoping and campaigning for us all to be equally happy. Some posts on here read as "I didn't get what I want, so you shouldn't either." That is what infuriates me.

Agreed.

[Zaren]

Personally i'd love to see all the surviving squad members from ME1 and ME2, join you in ME3 - but thats 14 characters - if everyone that could surive, survived - (kaiden/ashley died, and wrex is busy uniting the krogans) - the characters from ME1 could fill in the empy spaces for the characters that died in ME2 -  but i doubt it'll happend.

Modifié par Zaren, 11 mars 2010 - 06:41 .

[Selor Kiith]

I say... let us live with the consequences of our ME1 and ME2 Saves...

Bioware made up a background story for ME2 for those that haven't played the first... so they can do it for the third too...



Let's take into account that we can play after the Story is done... and that those who have been lost aren't avaiable anymore... this can be easily transfered to ME3... the data on who survived and who not is already there in the saves they just have to use it... it's not like it would have made a difference if you had all characters or just gathered just the ones you needed to proceed...

[Yeled]

jtav wrote...

Yeled wrote...

jtav wrote...

If the ME1 Lis aren't recruitable or at least habe a progression of the romance plot, then you have aright to be upset. I hope you agree that the converse is also true. No set of characters should be privileged over the other for the finale.

I agree with that, but don't you think we have a right to be disappointed/upset with how they were handled in ME2 as well?

Of course you have a right to be upset. But some posters who aren't you seem to be more interested in ensuring that we're all upset rather than hoping and campaigning for us all to be equally happy. Some posts on here read as "I didn't get what I want, so you shouldn't either." That is what infuriates me.

I think its less directed at the "you shouldn't either" angle than you think.  Comments like that are actually directed at Bioware.  The reasoning goes like this:

1. Casey Hudson tells us that the ME1 LIs won't be squadmates but will have important roles in ME2.
2. The reason he gives is that this is the ME1 LIs stories are so important that they need to be around for ME3 and they want to protect the LIs.  If they were in ME2 they couldn't be sure of surviving to ME3.
3. If the ME2 characters survive into ME3, then some of the justification for not including them as squadmates in ME2 becomes a load of bull.
4.  In order that the reason is not a load of bull, ME2 squadmates shouldn't be in ME3.

Its not about your suffering, but rather about not wanting Bioware's excuse to turn out to be a load of bull that were were fed as part of their marketing effort.  Now, I have no doubt that this was a load of bull, quite frankly.  And I don't exactly hold to this line of reasoning.  But I see the point.

[Nozybidaj]

Knoll Argonar wrote...

jtav wrote...

Yeled wrote...

jtav wrote...

If the ME1 Lis aren't recruitable or at least habe a progression of the romance plot, then you have aright to be upset. I hope you agree that the converse is also true. No set of characters should be privileged over the other for the finale.

I agree with that, but don't you think we have a right to be disappointed/upset with how they were handled in ME2 as well?

Of course you have a right to be upset. But some posters who aren't you seem to be more interested in ensuring that we're all upset rather than hoping and campaigning for us all to be equally happy. Some posts on here read as "I didn't get what I want, so you shouldn't either." That is what infuriates me.

Agreed.

Well then you know where we are coming from after the last couple of months.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Well it is a load of bull because quite frankly that is bioware's track record with sequels/expansions



Not as bad as Molyneux, but at least Lionhead is attempting to be progressive from a gameplay standpoint even if they tend to fail or flat out lie about it. What bothers me about Bioware's approach is because it always seems like the easy way out. Why make dialogue for characters who could be dead when we can make a new cast that for sure everyone will have!

[Nozybidaj]

Yeled wrote...

I think its less directed at the "you shouldn't either" angle than you think.  Comments like that are actually directed at Bioware.  The reasoning goes like this:

1. Casey Hudson tells us that the ME1 LIs won't be squadmates but will have important roles in ME2.
2. The reason he gives is that this is the ME1 LIs stories are so important that they need to be around for ME3 and they want to protect the LIs.  If they were in ME2 they couldn't be sure of surviving to ME3.
3. If the ME2 characters survive into ME3, then some of the justification for not including them as squadmates in ME2 becomes a load of bull.
4.  In order that the reason is not a load of bull, ME2 squadmates shouldn't be in ME3.

Its not about your suffering, but rather about not wanting Bioware's excuse to turn out to be a load of bull that were were fed as part of their marketing effort.  Now, I have no doubt that this was a load of bull, quite frankly.  And I don't exactly hold to this line of reasoning.  But I see the point.

In the end, yeah it was just a load of bull.  There are 100's of ways one could think up to have included the ME1 LI's, BW simply chose not to which is part of the disappointment.

[Yeled]

Yeled wrote...

jtav wrote...

Yeled wrote...

jtav wrote...

If the ME1 Lis aren't recruitable or at least habe a progression of the romance plot, then you have aright to be upset. I hope you agree that the converse is also true. No set of characters should be privileged over the other for the finale.

I agree with that, but don't you think we have a right to be disappointed/upset with how they were handled in ME2 as well?

Of course you have a right to be upset. But some posters who aren't you seem to be more interested in ensuring that we're all upset rather than hoping and campaigning for us all to be equally happy. Some posts on here read as "I didn't get what I want, so you shouldn't either." That is what infuriates me.

I think its less directed at the "you shouldn't either" angle than you think.  Comments like that are actually directed at Bioware.  The reasoning goes like this:

1. Casey Hudson tells us that the ME1 LIs won't be squadmates but will have important roles in ME2.
2. The reason he gives is that this is the ME1 LIs stories are so important that they need to be around for ME3 and they want to protect the LIs.  If they were in ME2 they couldn't be sure of surviving to ME3.
3. If the ME2 characters survive into ME3, then some of the justification for not including them as squadmates in ME2 becomes a load of bull.
4.  In order that the reason is not a load of bull, ME2 squadmates shouldn't be in ME3.

Its not about your suffering, but rather about not wanting Bioware's excuse to turn out to be a load of bull that were were fed as part of their marketing effort.  Now, I have no doubt that this was a load of bull, quite frankly.  And I don't exactly hold to this line of reasoning.  But I see the point.

Man, I had some trouble typing coherent sentences in that post!  Oh well, too lazy to fix it.  I hope I got my point across.