42 réponses à ce sujet

[cruc1al]

Updated on March 9: Carnifex vs. Tempest: why you should not use Tempest against armor. See further down.

Hi.

This idea was inspired by a discussion in another thread regarding the in(competence) of the Geth Pulse Rifle. I was of the opinion that the Geth Pulse Rifle isn't any better than the Avenger even against shields, while others claimed it is a superior rifle against shields, comparing it even to the Vindicator.

So I tested Avenger, GPR, Vindicator and Revenant against each other in an experimental setting. (EDIT: Now also videos for the Collector rifle, Submachine guns and Heavy pistols). What is the truth? Find out:

Video 1: Assault Rifle Damage Comparison

Video 2: Collector Rifle Test (see 1)

Video 3: SMG Damage Comparison

Video 4: Heavy Pistol Comparison

Video 5: Locust SMG Test (see 3)

About methods

I tested the damage per second, including changing clips if necessary, of assault rifles, SMGs and heavy pistols. I ran each test on a Geth Hunter AI hacked to 500 shields. I tried to keep the distance to the target equal in each test. The distance was chosen so as to minimise discrimination of less accurate weapons when firing in full auto; the results say nothing about the accuracy and long-range effectiveness of the weapons. Times for taking down the shields and for killing the target were measured in CyberLink PowerDirector which I used for editing the videos. The results should be interpreted as directional, not absolute, considering that many other factors enter the equation in an actual firefight. For best interpretation, watch the videos.

Each weapon tested had 2/5 damage upgrades for that weapon class, and no other upgrades.

Summary: Combined results


     1. ASSAULT RIFLES

Collector rifle:
- Shields down in 5.7 sec
- Health down in further 5.0 sec
- Total: 10.7 sec

Avenger:
- Shields down in 5.3 sec
- Health down in further 5.0 sec
- Total: 10.3 sec

Geth Pulse Rifle:
- Shields down in 5.0 sec
- Health down in further 5.2 sec
- Total: 10.2 sec

Vindicator, manual tap fire:
- Shields down in 2.5 sec
- Health down in further 3.4 sec
- Total: 5.9 sec

Revenant:
- Shields down in 2.6 sec
- Health down in further 2.7 sec
- Total: 5.3 sec


     2. SMGs

Shuriken, button pressed down:
- Shields down in 5.3 sec
- Health down in further 5.0 sec
- Total: 10.3 sec

Shuriken, manual tap fire (nearly full auto):
- Shields down in 4.0 sec
- Health down in further 4.4 sec
- Total: 8.4 sec

Tempest SMG:
- Shields down in 2.7 sec
- Health down in further 4.4 sec
- Total 7.1 sec

Locust SMG
- Shields down in 4.1 sec
- Health down in further 4.0 sec
- Total 8.1 sec

     3. HEAVY PISTOLS

Predator:
- Shields down in 5.7 sec
- Health down in further 4.7 sec
- Total: 10.4 sec

Carnifex hand cannon:
- Shields down in 5.0 sec
- Health down in further 4.6 sec
- Total: 9.6 sec

NOTE: The experimental setting in the Heavy pistol comparison is, of course, the same as in the other tests. But since they're not designed against shields, inferences when comparing them to other weapons should be made with caution.



EDIT

I made a new video comparing the anti-armor capabilities of Carnifex and Tempest against Harbringer at close range. Probably only confirms what most people already know - but if you think the Tempest is a good gun against armor, you're wrong:

Video 5: Carnifex vs. Tempest - or why you should not use Tempest against armor

Modifié par cruc1al, 03 mai 2010 - 03:33 .

[LT RADCZEK]

Wow, nice work. Now we finally know which Assault rifle is the best in terms of damage. But, the thing is, when using these guns in actual combat, there is still accuracy to take into account. The Revenant is obviously the least accurate, so is best used in close range. The vindicator has the best accuracy. So it all depends on the situation.

[Gaddmeister]

Amazing work! I'll rate it 5 stars.

But I agree, strange that the Geth Pulse doesn't seem to be that good against shields after all. But I never liked how it handled anyway. I prefer the Vindicator so I don't really care (haven't played as a soldier yet so I'll have to wait for the Revenant).

Modifié par Gaddmeister, 07 mars 2010 - 02:23 .

[javierabegazo]

Is there any chance you could do the same video but comparing the two Heavy Pistols and comparing the two SMG's? Generally, due to the Heavy Pistol critical upgrade, I prefer the Predator over the Carnifex because more shots = more chances of a critical hit



As for the shuriken vs. the Tempest, I'm pretty sure that the Tempest is hands down superior, but I would like to be wrong in that assumption.

Thanks for the vid by the way

[vdeity]

Where's the Collector Assault Rifle?

[dirftglass]

I like you. You created a simple, but effective experiment to figure this out.

... and your you-tube page has the QualiaSoup video about open-mindedness hearted. (great vid)

I'm assuming no access to the Collector Rifle though, as that's the one I would be most interested in seeing.

Modifié par dirftglass, 07 mars 2010 - 04:27 .

[Gildenlock]

thanks for this

vindicator is looking to me like the best overall now, since its so effective at all ranges

also curious about where that collecter assault rifle ranks

[Canned Bullets]

I'm still torn between the Revenant and the Avenger (on insanity), haven't used the Revenant since the Collector Ship.

Modifié par Canned Bullets, 07 mars 2010 - 06:37 .

[Lord Coake]

This is strange. With the accuracy mod researched, the Avenger seems to be an outright death machine, while the Vindicator runs out of ammo in a disturbingly short amount of time. Especially in long battles.



Due to it's lack of accuracy, even modded, I dislike the Revenant, and I've never used the Geth rifle.

[Varus Praetor]

The different ammo amounts and reload times definitely make the "best weapon" question a little more nebulous, but this is still a very well thought out experiment that contributes actual useful knowledge.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Varus Praetor wrote...

The different ammo amounts and reload times definitely make the "best weapon" question a little more nebulous, but this is still a very well thought out experiment that contributes actual useful knowledge.

They all have the same reload time.  I think it's pretty fair to say the Revenant is the indisputed champ.

[blank1]

The certainly solves the kill power debate -- the Revenant being superior. The Vindicator obviously is more useful at long range... but we have sniper rifles for that

[Fedorcyclops]

o ****,i thought the Geth Pulse Rifle is the best

guess i am wrong, very wrong

[VasQuipQuip]

Adrenaline Rush + Revenant is a potent combo. I conquered insanity with it.

[cruc1al]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

I understand that to fully compare the damage done by these rifles you'd need to sustain the fire for longer to minimize the effects of differences in the time it takes to empty a clip. But you'd need a very strong enemy that stays still and doesn't shoot back at all. Anyway, I didn't intend to make a perfect experiment - just something that would give a pretty good idea of the relative killing speeds of these rifles. I chose the range to minimize the effects of accuracy differences and to prevent the damage multiplier from changing if the Geth got a bit closer, as it did in the Geth Rifle test.

Just so you know I didn't have the accuracy upgrade, and only Revenant would actually benefit from it in that test. We can extrapolate that the effect of the accuracy upgrade would make Revenant better by a couple of tenths at that range.

javierabegazo wrote...

Is there any chance you could do the same video but comparing the two Heavy Pistols and comparing the two SMG's? Generally, due to the Heavy Pistol critical upgrade, I prefer the Predator over the Carnifex because more shots = more chances of a critical hit.

I'm interested in comparing those weapons too. I'll make two videos, one for heavy pistols, one for SMGs. I think it's best to do exactly the same experiment with them as with the Assault rifles so that those weapons can be compared with each other; although, the heavy pistols are anti-armor, so the shield part will be only good for comparing one heavy pistol with the other, while the health part can be compared to other weapons. Should be ready by tonight or tomorrow night.

With regard to the Collector rifle... I didn't include it since I thought most people don't have it. But I might do it in a separate video later.

[Sgt Lindog]

ok this has probably been asked before plenty of times but how did you get the revenant and the geth rifle!? im pretty sure the revenant is gun hanging on the wall in morinths apartment?

are they a PC only thing?

[Dethateer]

You get the Revenant by playing as a soldier, and teh Geth rifle by doing Haestrom on Hardcore or above.

[Costin_Razvan]

The Vindicator still remains the best overall, expect for ammo ( though truth be told I never had big issues with ammo ).

The Revenant beats the Vindicator in your video by 0.3 seconds at almost point blank range where its lack of accuracy doesn't matter. In a real battle at long range the Vindicator would win seeing as it is more accurate and thus you can score headshots far easier.

It is annoying to see just how bad the Geth Rifle is. It was supposed to be a bonus for a player who was playing on  hardcore/insanity, and yet it utterly sucks.

P.S. Would very much like to see the Collector Rifle, yes

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 mars 2010 - 11:20 .

[Haasth]

Nice job there comparing, results were pretty much as I guessed. Now just the Collector Assault rifle

[CLime]

Nice vid, kudos for taking the effort to do this.



The damage ratios won't be perfectly consistent in practice, of course. The Vindicator had to reload in the video while the Revenant didn't, but in a firefight you may be forced to take cover for a few seconds anyway, during which reloading wouldn't cost you any more time.

[Dethateer]

Haasth wrote...

Nice job there comparing, results were pretty much as I guessed. Now just the Collector Assault rifle

It'll do slightly worse than the Avenger. It murders shields, but it kind of sucks at shredding health.

[cruc1al]

Updated OP with Collector AR test and SMG tests. Didn't take as long as I thought.

Some surprising stuff came up:

The Collector rifle seems to be the worst damage-per-second rifle/smg in the game at close range, if you're not shooting in the head.

Then, it turns out that Shuriken does actually more damage per second than Avenger and the Geth rifle. And Tempest SMG beats all but Vindicator and Revenant against shields at close range.

Modifié par cruc1al, 07 mars 2010 - 09:56 .

[CMD-Shep]

Nicely done man! Thanks.

[javierabegazo]

Awesome, thanks so much for the updated videos Guess I just knew the Tempest was hands down better, shame about that



Awaiting the Pistols

[cruc1al]

Updated the original post to include the new video comparing the two Heavy Pistols, as well as a more detailed description of methods, and finally, a list summarising all the results.