86 réponses à ce sujet

[NvVanity]

Good theory. The only flaw I can think of is Dr. Michel being a co-worker. TIM is the boss of Cerberus, if he was Armistan Banes then he was scientist along with Michel. Michel doesn't seem like she was ever a head scientist or anything but maybe she's under witness protection or something. Plus why would Banes want Michel to hand over medical supplies if he was TIM?

[kraidy1117]

NvVanity wrote...

Good theory. The only flaw I can think of is Dr. Michel being a co-worker. TIM is the boss of Cerberus, if he was Armistan Banes then he was scientist along with Michel. Michel doesn't seem like she was ever a head scientist or anything but maybe she's under witness protection or something. Plus why would Banes want Michel to hand over medical supplies if he was TIM?

TIM was a normal man working at a normal job that had a familly. So his past with Michel is not that far fecthed.

[SLPr0]

NvVanity wrote...

Good theory. The only flaw I can think of is Dr. Michel being a co-worker. TIM is the boss of Cerberus, if he was Armistan Banes then he was scientist along with Michel. Michel doesn't seem like she was ever a head scientist or anything but maybe she's under witness protection or something. Plus why would Banes want Michel to hand over medical supplies if he was TIM?

What was being communicated may not actually be what was meant. One thing Kahoku reveals in his message to you is that Cerberus was a top secret Alliance military project doing illegal genetic research to produce some kind of super soldier, and they had gone rogue.

The Lazarus Technology may have had its start at the firm Banes and Michel were working together at, it could be that the "medical supplies" she was fired for "giving out to clinics like this" was her intention to release the Lazarus Project research to the masses for the benefit of all...as any "good" doctor would. She was packed off and potentially placed under a heavy NDA for guarantee of no legal reprisals and set up in the Citadel in a pretty nice job.

Armistan Banes...who is dead according to everyone else is contacting Dr. Michel through an intermediary attempting to get "medical supplies", which could be, since we never really get any deeper information, research in relation to the Lazarus Project that Dr. Michel still has on hand, and that Banes...who is supposed to be dead, according to the Alliance members you speak with, needs to complete his revival.

Modifié par SLPr0, 07 mars 2010 - 04:21 .

[Zulu_DFA]

It's funny to read tons of posts about how swell it would be to jump Cerberus and "go back to the Alliance", when there is a strong possibility that Shepard has never left the Alliance. Instead, he got promoted from special forces division to intelligence agency, that basically runs those special forces.

That said, Alliance seems to be organised quite unlike today's governments. Its chain of command is less strict (for example, Udina seems to exercise a broad autonomy from the Alliance Parliament/Cabinet) and the structure is modular. This is probably the result of interstellar economy and finance.

The Human population beyond the Solar system is relatively small, with the largest colonies not exceeding population of 5 million. But the amount of commodities being moved around is very large. Therefore the Alliance's budget gets most of its income not from individual taxpayers, but from corporations. Therefore Alliance represents not public interests at all, but rather corporate intersests. And the corporations may influence different divisions of the Alliance directly, bypassing the parliament/cabinet bureaucratic structure, that may be there just for show in the 1st place.

It looks like this is the case with Cerberus. Maybe other branches of the Alliance are not happy about it, but there is nothing they can do. Maybe they are not even suppesed to do anything about it. That's why Kahoku was almost helpless, and ran his investigation like it was his personal matter. He should have known better than mess with something like that.

As for Banes, he's probably a Cerberus man. Maybe a head of one of its cells. But not TIM himself.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 07 mars 2010 - 04:59 .

[IoCaster]

I also wonder if the encrypted data that you find on that one N7: Lost Operative mission ties into the Banes, SB, Cerberus and Alliance ongoing mystery. If you then try to factor in any possible ties between the various factions or all of them and the Reapers where does that lead? Lots of issues/questions left unresolved leading into ME3.

[War Houndoom]

SLPr0 wrote...

NvVanity wrote...

Good theory. The only flaw I can think of is Dr. Michel being a co-worker. TIM is the boss of Cerberus, if he was Armistan Banes then he was scientist along with Michel. Michel doesn't seem like she was ever a head scientist or anything but maybe she's under witness protection or something. Plus why would Banes want Michel to hand over medical supplies if he was TIM?

What was being communicated may not actually be what was meant. One thing Kahoku reveals in his message to you is that Cerberus was a top secret Alliance military project doing illegal genetic research to produce some kind of super soldier, and they had gone rogue.

The Lazarus Technology may have had its start at the firm Banes and Michel were working together at, it could be that the "medical supplies" she was fired for "giving out to clinics like this" was her intention to release the Lazarus Project research to the masses for the benefit of all...as any "good" doctor would. She was packed off and potentially placed under a heavy NDA for guarantee of no legal reprisals and set up in the Citadel in a pretty nice job.

Armistan Banes...who is dead according to everyone else is contacting Dr. Michel through an intermediary attempting to get "medical supplies", which could be, since we never really get any deeper information, research in relation to the Lazarus Project that Dr. Michel still has on hand, and that Banes...who is supposed to be dead, according to the Alliance members you speak with, needs to complete his revival.

I wonder If banes is actaully TIM and that if banes died, maybe he was revivied via the Lazarus Project, this would explain TIM's cybernetic implants and what not. It was mentioned that banes was working on a top secret project and his dead body disappeared.

[Big I]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

I also wonder if the encrypted data that you find on that one N7: Lost Operative mission ties into the Banes, SB, Cerberus and Alliance ongoing mystery. If you then try to factor in any possible ties between the various factions or all of them and the Reapers where does that lead? Lots of issues/questions left unresolved leading into ME3.

Yeah, I always hold onto it thinking that I may need it in the future as a trump card against TIM.  Of course I also think that holding onto it is basically giving to Cerberus because EDI is cerberus and EDI is the one trying to decrypt it.  Regardless though, I sure hope that this stuff really makes an impact on ME3.  Not holding my breath..."Ah yes, big decisions"

The same could be said of giving it to the Alliance, since Cerberus has high ranking backers in the Alliance.

[Darth Drago]

Interesting topic.

Lets see….
-Cerberus was part of the Alliance, a black ops organization that went rogue at least 6 years before ME1.
-From what we learn in ME2, The Illusive Man was apparently not aware of the extent some Cerberus operations had gone to get results. Even a rogue operation has got some rogue groups.
-Dr. Chloe Michel knows Banes from years ago mentioning that he was working with the Alliance on a military contract. From what she says Banes wasn’t part of the Alliance so maybe a civilian or already in Cerberus?
-One of Rear Admiral Kahoku’s marine units found Banes and was set up and killed.
-With the abduction and killing of Rear Admiral Kahoku as well, someone in Cerberus is getting rid of witnesses.
-Captain Anderson knows Rear Admiral Kahoku’s men found Banes.
-I’m not sure about the disappearance of Banes’s body and the ship he was on. I don’t recall hearing that part so I’ll have to start a new game soon to check this. If this is the case then it could just be Cerberus cleaning up but this doesn’t seem likely. More believable would be that if Banes was working deep undercover the Alliance may have done this to prepare a propper cover story to explain his death.
-Its not likely that Banes is the Illusive Man.

Going by the reaction from Anderson and how he seems more shocked that you even knew about Banes. I have a few theories.

1. Armistan Banes and Captain Anderson knew each other, maybe as friends or just worked together on an assignment. So Anderson hearing about Banes from Shepard about something from his past like this could be just a bit of a shock. I don’t buy this one myself but its here anyways.

2. Banes is an Alliance mole deep undercover in Cerberus. His cover was blown and he was killed by Cerberus operatives. Only a few key members knew about this, Captain Anderson it seems was one of them. His reaction to Shepard hearing about Banes certainly could support this as do the UNC: Cerberus and UNC: Hades’ Dogs missions. *my favorite out of these.

[SLPr0]

Darth Drago wrote...


Interesting topic.

Lets see….
-Cerberus was part of the Alliance, a black ops organization that went rogue at least 6 years before ME1.
-From what we learn in ME2, The Illusive Man was apparently not aware of the extent some Cerberus operations had gone to get results. Even a rogue operation has got some rogue groups.
-Dr. Chloe Michel knows Banes from years ago mentioning that he was working with the Alliance on a military contract. From what she says Banes wasn’t part of the Alliance so maybe a civilian or already in Cerberus?
-One of Rear Admiral Kahoku’s marine units found Banes and was set up and killed.
-With the abduction and killing of Rear Admiral Kahoku as well, someone in Cerberus is getting rid of witnesses.
-Captain Anderson knows Rear Admiral Kahoku’s men found Banes.
-I’m not sure about the disappearance of Banes’s body and the ship he was on. I don’t recall hearing that part so I’ll have to start a new game soon to check this. If this is the case then it could just be Cerberus cleaning up but this doesn’t seem likely. More believable would be that if Banes was working deep undercover the Alliance may have done this to prepare a propper cover story to explain his death.
-Its not likely that Banes is the Illusive Man.

Going by the reaction from Anderson and how he seems more shocked that you even knew about Banes. I have a few theories.

1. Armistan Banes and Captain Anderson knew each other, maybe as friends or just worked together on an assignment. So Anderson hearing about Banes from Shepard about something from his past like this could be just a bit of a shock. I don’t buy this one myself but its here anyways.

2. Banes is an Alliance mole deep undercover in Cerberus. His cover was blown and he was killed by Cerberus operatives. Only a few key members knew about this, Captain Anderson it seems was one of them. His reaction to Shepard hearing about Banes certainly could support this as do the UNC: Cerberus and UNC: Hades’ Dogs missions. *my favorite out of these.

A fair break down of the known facts and suppositions, but it ignores the fact that Banes was the one contacting Michel through an intemidiary.

Banes is obviously not dead. Though to all information we are given, he IS dead according to anyone that knows anything about him. Both Anderson and Kahoku say hes dead. But the threats of blackmail are coming from Banes, while both Kahoku and Anderson are telling you he is dead and has been dead for some time.

In the end, Kahoku is dead, all the marines that discovered Bane's ship are dead, and the Banes link dissapears under the dark waters of the storyline...a man who is "dead" but is alive enough to be threatening Dr. Michel through an intermediary.

[Mox Ruuga]

BobbyTheI wrote...

I'm beginning to wonder if Banes wasn't just cut content from ME1 that never got finished, with how that plot thread just completely trailed off and didn't even warrant a mention in ME2. Guess we'll have to see in ME3.

This is my own guess.

Perhaps there was originally to have been yet one more Cerberus mission about him? Or that he would have been at the last Cerberus base, trying to BS his way out similarly to the ExoGeni scientist who was experimenting with the "domesticated" Thorian Creepers.

[SLPr0]

BioWare really isn't known for letting strings like this simply go unanswered. In any of their games.

Unfinished yes....probably because it was determined the Banes link is deeper into the story than can be revealed at what is towards the end of the first part of the Mass Effect Trilogy.

I mean its obvious the content itself was somewhat rushed together, empty rooms in the bases, misplaced static items in weird places, but the Banes link is a thread of this story I rather doubt was just left "unfinished". Thats just not BioWare's style.

Modifié par SLPr0, 07 mars 2010 - 05:50 .

[SLPr0]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...
A fair break down of the known facts and suppositions, but it ignores the fact that Banes was the one contacting Michel through an intemidiary.

Banes is obviously not dead. Though to all information we are given, he IS dead according to anyone that knows anything about him. Both Anderson and Kahoku say hes dead. But the threats of blackmail are coming from Banes, while both Kahoku and Anderson are telling you he is dead and has been dead for some time.

In the end, Kahoku is dead, all the marines that discovered Bane's ship are dead, and the Banes link dissapears under the dark waters of the storyline...a man who is "dead" but is alive enough to be threatening Dr. Michel through an intermediary.

Fair enough, but the question still lingers in my mind.  Was this a Bioware screwup with the game or something intentional all along.

edit:  your post above seems to answer the same question.

Yes...I do not believe BioWare screws up on story based elements, they're too good at that part of things.

Now far as why my character can get stuck on weird pieces of level geometry due to the cover system allowing for weird "attachment" of the player model to objects it shouldn't attach to is something I'd expect from a first gen/early patch BioWare release...technical problems are something I expect, story problems..no.

[stillnotking]

I don't know if I'd call it a screwup per se, but I think everyone is making way too much of Armistan Banes. He seems like something that was just put in ME1 for "flavor". I doubt he'll play any role in ME3, except perhaps as an easter egg.

[Mox Ruuga]

SLPr0 wrote...

BioWare really isn't known for letting strings like this simply go unanswered. In any of their games.

Unfinished yes....probably because it was determined the Banes link is deeper into the story than can be revealed at what is towards the end of the first part of the Mass Effect Trilogy.

I mean its obvious the content itself was somewhat rushed together, empty rooms in the bases, misplaced static items in weird places, but the Banes link is a thread of this story I rather doubt was just left "unfinished". Thats just not BioWare's style.

Heh.

Armistan Banes might very well be the "Twisted Rune" of Mass Effect.

Bioware isn't any better than any other developer about running out of time and leaving some strings dangling.

[Darth Drago]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

@Darth Drago
I like your theories too.
You know I really hope that this is delved into deeply in ME3. I feel like though, that all these theories and speculations floating around concerning a wide range range of topics will just be that in the end. That a lot of this stuff may not even hardly be touched upon and played out in ME3. That we are just getting pumped up for nothing. I hope it does play out though. It makes for interesting conversation anyway.

-Unfortunately I doubt BioWare will do anything to explore this character, his fate and background. I’m not a big fan of BioWare right now because of the direction I believe they are taking ME (long story lol) including a lack of any side quests to expand on anything other than killing members of 3 merc groups and some Geth. If they wanted to do something on Banes they missed a great opportunity in ME2 since your deep in Cerberus’s pocket. I would be shocked to see anything mentioned in ME3 or any further downloads. 

SLPr0 wrote...

A fair break down of the known facts and suppositions, but it ignores the fact that Banes was the one contacting Michel through an intemidiary.

Banes is obviously not dead. Though to all information we are given, he IS dead according to anyone that knows anything about him. Both Anderson and Kahoku say hes dead. But the threats of blackmail are coming from Banes, while both Kahoku and Anderson are telling you he is dead and has been dead for some time.

In the end, Kahoku is dead, all the marines that discovered Bane's ship are dead, and the Banes link dissapears under the dark waters of the storyline...a man who is "dead" but is alive enough to be threatening Dr. Michel through an intermediary.

-I was thinking about that when I was writing up my list but lost my train of thought for a little bit so I left it out. My theory on the blackmail thing is someone is using Banes’s name to get some clout just like Thane’s kid did to get hired as an assassin. This could be part of Banes background with Dr. Chloe Michel and her last job. Maybe someone from her past like an employee, patient she treated or even someone who she gave the free med supplies to is using a Banes name to get to her attention. We really don’t know much about her background either and just what connection she and Banes had other than they had worked together years ago.

The question you need to ask is why would Banes go to all the trouble to fake his death to risk exposing himself to anyone by doing something as trivial as blackmailing someone for medical supplies. That’s why I think its more likely that the fake “Banes” is more likely someone the Doc gave the free medical supplies to from her old job and they want to get her to get them some more after just finding out where she now works.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 07 mars 2010 - 06:08 .

[SLPr0]

I don't think Banes actually "faked" his death I think the reports as the Systems Alliance Navy relays them are more or less the truth as they know it. Banes is "dead".

Issue I am having is I believe the top secret project Anderson refers to, is the Cerberus project that Kahoku reveals as a program designed to do illegal genetics research to create super soldiers...which Banes is involved in, and the Lazarus technology may be an offshoot of.

So Banes "dies", but being part of this project is the first test subject of the Lazarus technology, which, as a technology goes, would be quite good for creating an army of "super soldiers" I mean, kill all you want, we'll make more, is the pre-Genophage Krogan battle motto almost, if humans were able to apply the same to their soldiers via the Lazarus technology that could be looked at, technically, as the creation of "super soldiers".

And the project succeeds to a degree, Banes returns, perhaps not fully though, and research Chloe Michel has is key to perfecting the process, so the blackmail attempts begin, using code words and inferences instead of direct information.

Chloe Michel herself could have been assigned to the Cerberus project for all we know. Which could be the previous posting she had before being "quietly let go" and set up on the Citadel.

[JedTed]

I used to think that Banes and TIM were one and the same but now i'm not so sure. Cerberus was supposed to be a Black Ops organization before they went rouge right? Well maybe Armistan Banes was the original head of Cerberus untill he was killed and TIM took over the organization. TIM deffinatly sounds like the ambishious sort who'd aim to take over a company in order to pursue their own agenda.



The question is WHEN did Cerberus go rouge, we know that they were involved with the Akuze incident so it goes back that far atleast.