798 réponses à ce sujet

[Shiakazee]

hmmm, Cerberus needs money, but hates aliens....

hmmmm, Udina hates aliens and has a lot of money...

Who could the cerberus contributers be?

also OP:  good theory you have going, hopefully BW will have some type of variation of your theory.  

They need something to save them from all the plotholes in ME2

[yummysoap]

I haven't really read through too much of the thread, but I'm willing to concede that this is a possibility. Thing is, it doesn't matter too much to me. If Cerberus are Alliance then that doesn't redeem Cerberus in any way, it just damns the Alliance. If this turns out to be the case my Shepard will forfeit absolutely all allegiance to the Alliance that he had left in him (ME2 didn't do them any credit) and be his own man.



In fact, I wouldn't mind it at all if this ended up being the case. It's good to play a loyal character that has all his expectations shattered when he discovers horrible truths. My only problem is that it could come off as a cliche unless it's executed well enough.

[Zulu_DFA]

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...
game itself is literally peppered with his examples of complete incompetance.

There is a thread for Cerberus inept incopetence, so I won't go into details here, but only note that this is obviously a highly debatable, and, to me, a hilariously ludicrous statement.

surprise surprise... Saddam Hussein was actually a "US asset" before he went rogue!!! fkn yucko eh.

Lord Darrius, Lord Darrius, fkn yucko eh, fkn yucko eh.
And, surprise surprise, Osama - you know who - was a "US asset" around the same good old days Saddam was... Then, he became an avowed enemy... Then, he became an elusive avowed enemy... Well, at least he is not getting his money from US anymore, I suppose.

Shiakazee wrote...
also OP: good theory you have going, hopefully BW will have some type of variation of your theory.

They need something to save them from all the plotholes in ME2

Meh. I am not so sure. It looks like the Cerberus haters will prefer any number of plotholes of any size to dealing with what they would call a cop-out or a lazy retcon...

So I'm expecting some dull cliche plot twist, about TIM going nuts, allying himself with the Reapers and needing to be shot no matter what. And the questions such as "When?" and "Why?" [did Cerberus go rogue] get never properly answered. So maybe Asheer_Khan's little ego gets upbeaten with a precious "I killz TIM Yay!" moment. Maybe there will even be options to pointlessly headbutt TIM, or pointlessly shoot him in the foot, or come up with a pointlessly stupid joke about his colon, before shooting him for good. Let's have faith in BioWare.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 07 juillet 2010 - 06:21 .

[Arijharn]

 I've said it before, but I may as well say it here too, but on the oft-chance that Cerberus is totally independent from the Alliance (I think this would be boring tbh... I like to have my morals questioned/thought about) I think it would be an incredible waste to actually allow Shephard and co to gallop around the galaxy with the eventual goal of killing TIM for one simple reason:

TIM is smarter, much much smarter than you (Shephard). You may have the power of Shephard indoctrination on your side, but TIM has the power of TIM indoctrination... plus political clout, plus near inexhaustible credits, plus he's a delicious 'bad guy' (and by bad guy I actually mean anti-hero bordering on being an outright villian, which makes him an appealing character study).

[Wolverfrog]

Good theory; it'd be nice if Mass Effect 3 begins with you seeing the Illusive Man speaking to a subservient Udina about Shepard's actions.

[Voutsis1982]

I'm thinking no on the Alliance-Cerberus connection. If Cerberus had those sort of connections with the Alliance, then they'd have been briefed on the Virmire mission and Chandanar and his fodder would have known about the indoctrination fields Reaper ships produce. They could have done tests to determine if the field was active, used telepresent mechs to explore the derelict and disable the field first, or whatever other measures necessary to ensure they get their cake and not get eaten by it.

Instead they get murdered in the ass by what they were trying to research. Also known as the Universal Cerberus Retirement Plan.

I wouldn't rule out that the Illusive Man isn't just a shill for Exo-Geni or some other bunch, grabbing for shiny alien technology and wrapping their work in colorful The Ends Justify the Means, for Humanity! ribbons. Hell, I wouldn't rule out him being a Batarian pet, yolking other species into doing their dirty work and taking the blame while they reap the benefits.

We don't know what he is. We only have his word for his intentions, and that's not worth much. But we know what he's not, and he's not Alliance. If Cerberus was Alliance, they'd have been better informed and run a more survivable operation.

[Zulu_DFA]

Voutsis1982 wrote...

I'm thinking no on the Alliance-Cerberus connection. If Cerberus had those sort of connections with the Alliance, then they'd have been briefed on the Virmire mission and Chandanar and his fodder would have known about the indoctrination fields Reaper ships produce. They could have done tests to determine if the field was active, used telepresent mechs to explore the derelict and disable the field first, or whatever other measures necessary to ensure they get their cake and not get eaten by it.

The problem is that all Rana Tanoptis had managed to come up with was destroyed in the nuclear blast. And even that would not give any protective countermeasures, since she told you that the "signal" or "field" was undetectable. So Dr. Chandanar was probably aware of the indoctrination, but underestimated the danger at first, and when the effect was evident, it was too late to escape the trap. Hopefully, with the records of Chandanar's team recovered, Cerberus can come up with some failsafe procedures (personnel rotation pattern being the simplest of them), that will allow to study indoctrination more successfully.

Let's wait for the Retribution novel.

Voutsis1982 wrote...
If Cerberus was Alliance, they'd have been better informed and run a more survivable operation.

Like they were informed about the Alliance study of the Klendagon Rift, that led the to the Reaper in the first place? That part of TIM dialogue practically shouts: "Shepard, we work with the Alliance!", making it almost a plothole, that TIM admits up that much to Shepard.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 07 juillet 2010 - 04:55 .

[Badpie]

I've always thought that at the highest level up the chain of command Cerberus is in bed with the Alliance and vice versa. It's not something the Alliance can really advertise seeing as how Cerberus is a pro-human "terrorist" organization, but TIM seems to have his fingers in everyone's pie (that sounded so icky) so it wouldn't surprise me to learn this.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...
game itself is literally peppered with his examples of complete incompetance.

There is a thread for Cerberus inept incopetence, so I won't go into details here, but only note that this is obviously a highly debatable, and, to me, a hilariously ludicrous statement.

of course it's both hilarious and something you don't want to go into.... for obvious reasons.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...
surprise surprise... Saddam Hussein was actually a "US asset" before he went rogue!!! fkn yucko eh.

Lord Darrius, Lord Darrius, fkn yucko eh, fkn yucko eh.
And, surprise surprise, Osama - you know who - was a "US asset" around the same good old days Saddam was... Then, he became an avowed enemy... Then, he became an elusive avowed enemy... Well, at least he is not getting his money from US anymore, I suppose.

furthering the analogy doesn't further your point, (despite the obvious virtues and shared agreement) it takes you further away from legitimising TIM (which is your intention)... so feel free to be worthy and logical... or feel free to spout crap i guess ??
You're one of the people on these forums who has disappointed me... so many others actualy stick to their points (and I was surprised by that) I think you need to lift your game a little. (You could always resort to reprinting enormous wads of text to push unwanted criticism to the next page... seems to be one of your strats)

[Zulu_DFA]

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...
legitimising TIM (which is your intention)

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I am the one asking questions here!!!

This won't be long, though...

So...
________________________________________



WHY and WHEN

did Cerberus go rogue?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 07 juillet 2010 - 12:40 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

lots of emoticons.. I don't know what they mean.

As far as I can tell the thread is not a question.

What do you want?

[Zulu_DFA]

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

What do you want?

Didn't i just say, that it's me asking questions here?

All right, never mind. I want you to tell me WHY and WHEN Cerberus went rogue. That's all.

[Voutsis1982]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The problem is that all Rana Tanoptis had managed to come up with was destroyed in the nuclear blast. And even that would not give any protective countermeasures, since she told you that the "signal" of "field" was undetectable. So Dr. Chandanar was probably aware of the indoctrination, but underestimated the danger at first, and when the effect was evident, it was too late to escape the trap.

The recorded dialogue paints a picture of people who didn't have a clue about indoctrination. They never even use the word. People who are in fear of a plague will notice a cough. People who fear mind control will notice when they start suffering chronic headaches, sharing memories, seeing ghosts, their boss listening to specimen slides, and involuntary teeth grinding. Too many warning signs, not enough alarm bells.

Detecting the field is easy, you just need a test subject (I'd nominate Conrad Verner, but how would we tell?). Avoiding
its effects requires telepresent control of drones (preferably by hardline). They used neither. There isn't a single line of dialogue that indicates these poor schlubs had a clue about the meat grinder they were sent into. If they used the word indoctrination even once, it would be another story. Literally. They wouldn't be dead, for one thing.

Like they were informed about the Alliance study of the Klendagon Rift, that led the to the Reaper in the first place? That part of TIM dialogue practically shouts: "Shepard, we work with the Alliance!", making it almost a plothole, that TIM admits up that much to Shepard.

It's not really a shout. Cerberus knew about the Quarian mission to Haestrom, but that doesn't mean that Cerberus is really a secret branch of the Quarian Admiralty Board, stealing and developing tech on behalf of the Migrant Fleet while humanity takes the blame. It means they have spies, and monitor ship and comms traffic. And the Haestrom mission wasn't data that was two years old, about a 37 million year old trench that would have been examined by every species that flew past and noticed the big-ass scar in the planet.

But ultimately it comes down to Chandanar's team getting reamed and having no clue as to what was happening to them. If a Salarian on Tuchanka can mention indoctrination in passing, a scientist studying a Reaper really should mention it while it's happening to them. Their boss might mention it too, when they fail to report in.

[Zulu_DFA]

Voutsis1982 wrote...

But ultimately it comes down to Chandanar's team getting reamed and having no clue as to what was happening to them.

1. Due to classification reasons only Dr. Chandanar, as the head of the science team, was informed about the indoctrination.
2. He was informed that the indoctrination effects become visible after days or weeks of continuous exposure.
3. He monitored from afar (Cerberus science vessel) the personnel that installed the airlocks, repressurized the Reaper, built catwalks, carried on initial surveys. Maybe for months. He saw nothing suspicious and concluded the indoctrination field was not active.
4. He gave green light. And went to the Reaper himself with the bulk of the science team. The Cerberus science vessel flew away, possibly taking the first crew away for rotation.
5. A year+ later the team stopped transmitting.

For any further speculation about Cerberus ineptness you may want to find the "inept" thread and take it there.


Now, you answer me: WHY and WHEN did Cerberus go rogue?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 07 juillet 2010 - 05:13 .

[inversevideo]

 Zulu_DFA

Not far fetched at all.

I've always thought, since ME1, that Cerberus still had it's hooks into the Alliance, and vice-versa.

ME1 - on the Citiadel, someone is collecting medical supplies, and using the name Armistan Banes. Kohuku tells you Banes is dead, and it turns out that the team Kohuku sent to look for Banes is wiped out. Kohuku himself feels the need to leave the Alliance military in order to hide from Cerberus? WTF? Would an Admiral not be safer in the Alliance military, why flee?

ME1 - On Feros you discover that someone is redirecting medical supplies to the Voyager Cluster.
When you go to investigate the Voyager Cluster, you are contacted by Hackett, who tells you that a loose nuke, from the first contact war, is somehow, on the other side of the galaxy, in the Voyager Cluster, and he does not know why, but won't you please go and investigate.   When you arrive, on the planet, you discover the nuke has been moved to a deep mine (like those the U.S used for underground nuclear tests) and you end up trapped there by Elias Haliot, the pirate who masterminded the Skillion Blitz.  The whole threat of a loose nuke was designed to lure you here to get blown up.  When you finally escape and put a round into Haliot, you discover that all the information pertaining to the medical supplies being diverted from Feros to the Voyager Cluster have vanished.  I played ME1 many times, and the info vanishes from your mission log every single time.

ME2 - The new Normandy SR2 was built, by Cerberus, at a secret facility in the Voyager Cluster.
Coincidence? I think not.  As EDI tells you, Cerberus influenced the original Normandy research and design, through it's ties to the Alliance - Military -Industrial Complex.  

In mythology, Cerberus it the three headed dog that guards the gates to Hell.
I would imagine the 'gate' to be the nearest Mass Effect gate (Arcturus?) to earth, Hell is the rest of the galaxy, with 'heaven' being Earth. The dogs three heads being Alliance Military, Earth Industry, and Earth Science/Research think tanks.

My Shep ceased to trust the Alliance a long time ago, as whatever the Alliance knows, Cerberus knows.
Be interesting to see if information flows both ways, but I think OP is correct, and that it does.

Modifié par inversevideo, 07 juillet 2010 - 05:47 .

[lovgreno]

Zulu_DFA wrote...WHY and WHEN did Cerberus go rogue?

Why: Hard to say but it's likely that the Alliance found them to be more of a liability than a resource at some point. They wanted to keep doing their experiments wich was too costly in lives and political stability in the eyes of humanitys leaders so they went underground.
When: Some conversations hints that it happened during ME1 but these things usualy happen gradualy over a long time. It wouldn't suprise me if Cerberus leaders was complaining about not being allowed to feed people their experiments for "the good of humanity" since the organisation started.
These are just speculations so I can't say it proves if Cerberus are still a part of the Alliance or not. What we do know is that the Alliance don't want to be connected to Cerberus agenda, work, methods or personell. This could be a hint about how usefull the Alliance think Cerberus realy is.

[Arijharn]

inversevideo wrote...
ME1 - On Feros you discover that someone is redirecting medical supplies to the Voyager Cluster.
When you go to investigate the Voyager Cluster, you are contacted by Hackett, who tells you that a loose nuke, from the first contact war, is somehow, on the other side of the galaxy, in the Voyager Cluster, and he does not know why, but won't you please go and investigate.   When you arrive, on the planet, you discover the nuke has been moved to a deep mine (like those the U.S used for underground nuclear tests) and you end up trapped there by Elias Haliot, the pirate who masterminded the Skillion Blitz.  The whole threat of a loose nuke was designed to lure you here to get blown up.  When you finally escape and put a round into Haliot, you discover that all the information pertaining to the medical supplies being diverted from Feros to the Voyager Cluster have vanished.  I played ME1 many times, and the info vanishes from your mission log every single time.

While that's a good theory, as far as I remember though those two quests are independent of each other... you can go to the Voyager Cluster without being able to hack the geth terminal I think that has the information on it about redirecting medical supplies (or am I confusing quests?)

[Combine08]

Could be possible!



Besides EDI's comment Jacob (He's useful, finally ) mentions something similar.



The alliance corsair program he was part of. They were officially independent and not related, but...still working on behalf of the alliance. Could be true with Cerberus too, but I doubt it.

[inversevideo]

Arijharn wrote...

inversevideo wrote...
ME1 - On Feros you discover that someone is redirecting medical supplies to the Voyager Cluster.
When you go to investigate the Voyager Cluster, you are contacted by Hackett, who tells you that a loose nuke, from the first contact war, is somehow, on the other side of the galaxy, in the Voyager Cluster, and he does not know why, but won't you please go and investigate.   When you arrive, on the planet, you discover the nuke has been moved to a deep mine (like those the U.S used for underground nuclear tests) and you end up trapped there by Elias Haliot, the pirate who masterminded the Skillion Blitz.  The whole threat of a loose nuke was designed to lure you here to get blown up.  When you finally escape and put a round into Haliot, you discover that all the information pertaining to the medical supplies being diverted from Feros to the Voyager Cluster have vanished.  I played ME1 many times, and the info vanishes from your mission log every single time.

While that's a good theory, as far as I remember though those two quests are independent of each other... you can go to the Voyager Cluster without being able to hack the geth terminal I think that has the information on it about redirecting medical supplies (or am I confusing quests?)

Yes, but you miss my point.

IF you pick up the mission, to track the medical supplies, from Feros to the Voyager Cluster, as soon as you enter the Voyager Cluster, Hackett has a mission for you.  Hackett's mission leads to Haliot, and Haliot is the one who apparently is receiving the medical supplies; as there is nothing else in that system (at least of which you are aware, during ME1).

After speaking to Hackett, any referenece to investigating the medical supplies, in the Voyager Cluster, is gone from your mission logs; replaced by Hackett's mission to obatin the 'loose nuke/probe'.

Hackett instructs you not to tell the council, so if you disappeared, no one would no what happened to you.

That said, it seems beyond coincidence, that TIM would construct a secret base, in the Voyager Cluster, to build the SR2,  and that Haliot would have a secret base, in the Voyager Cluster, and that you would be sent to secure a nuke that got lost, and wound up, on the other side of the galaxy, in the Voyager Cluster.

And speaking of coincidences, if you pick up the mission, to track the medical supplies from Feros, you can't help by think back to the fact that Dr Micheals was being pressured by 'Armistan Banes' to provide medical supplies, that were being shipped out to destination unknown, and you later find out that it could not have been Banes, because Banes was dead and Cerberus was involved.

And if you follow that path a bit, why would an Alliance Admiral flee the Alliance military, and go into hiding on his own, because Cerberus was after him?  Would an Admiral  not notify the Alliance? Is the Alliance unable to protect it's own Admiralty from Cerberus?  Kohoku obviously thought the Alliance could not protect him, from Cerberus, and the only reason that would be, is if Cerberus was Alliance, and operated at a level above the military. Kohuku knew too much, and got kacked.

Modifié par inversevideo, 09 juillet 2010 - 02:23 .

[ADLegend21]

Cerberus reminds me of the Salarians "League of one" Operatives that were previously like the STG, skilled and classified. When they joined the council they were black listen and hunted down. Cerberus had one too many bad experiments and I'm guessing the Alliance went to stop them, but TIM said Hell no and pulled all his resources from the alliance and cornered some of their business backers for funding. Like Miranda said her father was a backer of cerberus until she joined after fleeing from him. Also why would the alliance sick a Thresher Maw on their own soldiers on Akuze? Try to control the Geth by torturing an autistic man (overlord), growing their own Thorian creepers, stealing Rachni Eggs from Binary Helix, the Kohaku thing, and keep a Base filled with processed Humans for whatever bioware has planned for those of us who let TIM get his grubby hands on the collector base. they're rogue, jsut like the League of One went once they were revealed.

[Jackalope]

Shiakazee wrote...

hmmmm, Udina hates aliens and has a lot of money...

He has the same suit he wore in the first ME game.  Must not have a lot of money.

[Zulu_DFA]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Cerberus reminds me of the Salarians "League of one" Operatives that were previously like the STG, skilled and classified. When they joined the council they were black listen and hunted down. Cerberus had one too many bad experiments and I'm guessing the Alliance went to stop them, but TIM said Hell no and pulled all his resources from the alliance and cornered some of their business backers for funding. Like Miranda said her father was a backer of cerberus until she joined after fleeing from him. Also why would the alliance sick a Thresher Maw on their own soldiers on Akuze? Try to control the Geth by torturing an autistic man (overlord), growing their own Thorian creepers, stealing Rachni Eggs from Binary Helix, the Kohaku thing, and keep a Base filled with processed Humans for whatever bioware has planned for those of us who let TIM get his grubby hands on the collector base. they're rogue, jsut like the League of One went once they were revealed.

With one minor difference.

Cerberus was never revealed.

Instead, the Alliance tries to present them as a terrorist cabal (like the IRA). The aliens do know about Cerberus, but they do not know (or are not certain) about the origins of Cerberus, namely its being the Alliance black ops division (at least formerly).

Whereas the fact is that when a certain Alliance rear admiral went after them (already after they had gone rogue as he would have claimed later), he didn't have a slightest insight of what he was going after. And when he learned that, he found himself on the run, and unable to seek the Alliance support. The only person Kahoku tried to contact before he died of "natural causes" was a human ouside the Alliance chain of command.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Cerberus reminds me of the Salarians "League of one" Operatives that were previously like the STG, skilled and classified. When they joined the council they were black listen and hunted down. Cerberus had one too many bad experiments and I'm guessing the Alliance went to stop them, but TIM said Hell no and pulled all his resources from the alliance and cornered some of their business backers for funding. Like Miranda said her father was a backer of cerberus until she joined after fleeing from him. Also why would the alliance sick a Thresher Maw on their own soldiers on Akuze? Try to control the Geth by torturing an autistic man (overlord), growing their own Thorian creepers, stealing Rachni Eggs from Binary Helix, the Kohaku thing, and keep a Base filled with processed Humans for whatever bioware has planned for those of us who let TIM get his grubby hands on the collector base. they're rogue, jsut like the League of One went once they were revealed.

With one minor difference.

Cerberus was never revealed.

Instead, the Alliance tries to present them as a terrorist cabal (like the IRA). The aliens do know about Cerberus, but they do not know (or are not certain) about the origins of Cerberus, namely its being the Alliance black ops division (at least formerly).

Whereas the fact is that when a certain Alliance rear admiral went after them (already after they had gone rogue as he would have claimed later), he didn't have a slightest insight of what he was going after. And when he learned that, he found himself on the run, and unable to seek the Alliance support. The only person Kahoku tried to contact before he died of "natural causes" was a human outside the Alliance chain of command.

How do you know that aliens don't know Cerberus' origins?

[ADLegend21]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Cerberus reminds me of the Salarians "League of one" Operatives that were previously like the STG, skilled and classified. When they joined the council they were black listen and hunted down. Cerberus had one too many bad experiments and I'm guessing the Alliance went to stop them, but TIM said Hell no and pulled all his resources from the alliance and cornered some of their business backers for funding. Like Miranda said her father was a backer of cerberus until she joined after fleeing from him. Also why would the alliance sick a Thresher Maw on their own soldiers on Akuze? Try to control the Geth by torturing an autistic man (overlord), growing their own Thorian creepers, stealing Rachni Eggs from Binary Helix, the Kohaku thing, and keep a Base filled with processed Humans for whatever bioware has planned for those of us who let TIM get his grubby hands on the collector base. they're rogue, jsut like the League of One went once they were revealed.

With one minor difference.

Cerberus was never revealed.

Instead, the Alliance tries to present them as a terrorist cabal (like the IRA). The aliens do know about Cerberus, but they do not know (or are not certain) about the origins of Cerberus, namely its being the Alliance black ops division (at least formerly).

Whereas the fact is that when a certain Alliance rear admiral went after them (already after they had gone rogue as he would have claimed later), he didn't have a slightest insight of what he was going after. And when he learned that, he found himself on the run, and unable to seek the Alliance support. The only person Kahoku tried to contact before he died of "natural causes" was a human ouside the Alliance chain of command.

I never said Cerberus was revealed, I said they're jsut like the League of one was once tey were revealed and consequentialy black listed.

you're diggin to deep into this. Yous till haven't answered why the Alliance would back their soldiers being fed to Thresher Maws, torture for control of geth, etc. If Cerberus was still part of the alliance, then why wasn't Shepard just able to resume his position as a commander in the alliance after ebing resurrected and given a callisfied mission to invesitage the collectors, there for enot getting blasted by their love interest since their still part of the alliance. Oh wait he was given a mission to investigate the collectors, by Cerberus while the Alliance blamed Cerberus as did the council. thsi is also why Cerberus has it's own Three Branches of the organization (Cerberus= three headed dog) Unless the alliance was "yo Dawg I heard you like corproations, so I put a corporation in your corporation so you could have a Military, politcal and scientific business inside your other Military, Politcal, and Scientific business." Since I doubt that's the case, I think it's safe to say It is a rogue operation that was once part of the Alliance. oh and the reason why Kohaku tried to get someone out of Alliance commad was because Cerberus has agents inflitrating the allaince (ie Jacob pulling "favors" for the Norandy's armor upgrade) and he didn't want an undercover operative inercepting his message.

[Zulu_DFA]

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Cerberus reminds me of the Salarians "League of one" Operatives that were previously like the STG, skilled and classified. When they joined the council they were black listen and hunted down. Cerberus had one too many bad experiments and I'm guessing the Alliance went to stop them, but TIM said Hell no and pulled all his resources from the alliance and cornered some of their business backers for funding. Like Miranda said her father was a backer of cerberus until she joined after fleeing from him. Also why would the alliance sick a Thresher Maw on their own soldiers on Akuze? Try to control the Geth by torturing an autistic man (overlord), growing their own Thorian creepers, stealing Rachni Eggs from Binary Helix, the Kohaku thing, and keep a Base filled with processed Humans for whatever bioware has planned for those of us who let TIM get his grubby hands on the collector base. they're rogue, jsut like the League of One went once they were revealed.

With one minor difference.

Cerberus was never revealed.

Instead, the Alliance tries to present them as a terrorist cabal (like the IRA). The aliens do know about Cerberus, but they do not know (or are not certain) about the origins of Cerberus, namely its being the Alliance black ops division (at least formerly).

Whereas the fact is that when a certain Alliance rear admiral went after them (already after they had gone rogue as he would have claimed later), he didn't have a slightest insight of what he was going after. And when he learned that, he found himself on the run, and unable to seek the Alliance support. The only person Kahoku tried to contact before he died of "natural causes" was a human outside the Alliance chain of command.

How do you know that aliens don't know Cerberus' origins?

I don't know.

But Mordin doesnot give any indication that the STG knows, although he is willing to disclose his classified work on the Genophage 2.0, for the sake of mutual trust between him and Shepard...

And Keji Okuda said that the Alliance does have some secret, that is bound to get them in trouble...

But, even if the aliens know, but pretend they don't know, and maybe we know, that they know, but pretend not to know, and we in our turn pretend too that we don't know that they know... and everybody knows everything but pretends nobody knows nothing, it doesn't make Cerberus going actually rogue (as opposed to "everybody pretends Cerberus went rogue") any more sensible. Because it does not provide a remotely satisfactory answer as to WHY and WHEN Cerberus went rogue.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:40 .