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Cerberus IS part of the Alliance. It never went "rogue". [WITH PROOF]


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#526
luakel

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Zulu_DFA wrote...
The questions yet to be answered are these: why would Cerberus arrange food shipments to a pirate gang, that happens to own an Alliance's spy probe (which is actually a nuclear bomb), and what does Hackett have to do with it?

Hackett is secretly masterminding Shepard's impending death by nuke?

I know I've seen this brought up elsewhere, with you adding on that it was an attempt by Cerberus to take Shepard out for his actions against them. But that makes me wonder a few things...

1. Why would Cerberus have ties to the guy who launched the Skyllian Blitz? I fail to see how that would have in any way helped humanity, since it was targetting one of our major foothold colonies. Was Cerberus hoping for an Alliance military buildup and war against the batarians? That's just throwing away human lives on a far-flung war that the council will probably just end up mediating anyway, so humanity wouldn't really gain.

2. Why would Cerberus want Shepard dead? Whether he's attacking them or not, just by existing, he is a huge boon to the Alliance's influence. Killing him would not only set humanity back, it would cause massive outrage and probably result in detailed investigation of the death of the first human spectre. Sure, Cerberus will defend themselves when attacked, but going out of their way to kill Shepard seems odd. Better to just feed him false intel on where Cerberus's "main base" (UNC: Hades' Dogs) is, and hope that he'll give up the hunt after taking that one out.

3. Some of the "proof" for this may be more coincidence than connection. Just because ExoGeni is infiltrated by Cerberus doesn't mean they're a Cerberus front and all their operations are Cerberus-connected. Chances are, Cerberus was just infiltrating them to get intel on the Prothean/creeper experiments, not to suppy Haliat. And a star cluster's a big place. If Cerberus is operating there, that suggests that much of the cluster is unpoliced. That's a perfectly good reason in itself for Haliat to relocate there, with or without Cerberus ties.

4. What does Hackett know about all this? Did he agree to let Cerberus take out Shepard? Who'd going to carry out all those fun UNC missions for him then?

#527
Sajuro

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 I might have said this before on this thread, but if Cerberus is part of the alliance, I hope we can find their link because once the Reapers are gone it will be time to clean house. :devil:

#528
Knoll Argonar

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That's interesting, though: since the only thing we know about the Alliance comes from either Anderson or Hackett you don't really know what do the leaders of the Alliance think. You know that Anderson is working against Cerberus with his own intel and that Hackett gives you missions most of the time related SOMEHOW with Cerberus.

I think it's not that impossible that Cerberus is just what Miranda said, the secret organization every species has to do the dirty job. Salarian and Asari have them too. Turian.... don't know. Council has spectres.Humans have Cerberus.



And that's very cool because you should not be chosing between Cerberus and the Alliance, because they are the same thing. More likely you should follow TIM or Anderson, or even the Council. You don't have to be in the military to keep your Spectre status.



Interesting...

#529
lovgreno

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Perhaps the new Shadow Broker can find actual proof about this possible connection. Considering how Cerberus secrets rather quickly leaks out it shouldn't be too hard. But untill the writers decides to write something about this all we can do is to speculate and read the story in the way it suits our opinions best.

Modifié par lovgreno, 07 décembre 2010 - 03:06 .


#530
Dean_the_Young

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While we have such an excellent topic of a fun, plausible, if not necessarily accurate idea, I thought I'd throw in a somewhat-related concept: the Shepard-could-always-have-been-with-Cerberus roleplay, copy and pasted from another, more obscure thread.


Not an assertion, more of a roleplay concept, but definitely a possibility that meshes well with this thread. (And here, I won't lose track of it either!)





---

Shepard was always working with Cerberus.

---


The basic premise came from an observation I made
awhile ago: you can pick and choose options in ME2 so that you and TIM never
say (or even act) like you've never met or heard of eachother before. Even
from the first conversation, you can slip into a familiarity. There's nothing
in the game, anywhere, that can say 'Shepard never knew or worked with Cerberus
before.' Nothing specifically implies it, but nothing prevents it via
roleplaying.





How Does This Make Sense?



The general premise is 'Shepard could have been a secret Cerberus agent from
day one, and it still would have fit.' And it could: infact, it would have
gone a long way in explaining why Shepard was chosen, ie because TIM wanted
a secret Cerberus operative to be Humanity's representative and first Spectre,
where he/she could go a long way in advancing human interests.



After that, even Cerberus involvement is explainable: you didn't know
Cerberus was behind the Thresher Maw ambush before you informed Admiral Kohaku.
When you discovered links to the Rachni, Cerberus Command was happy for you to
clean up a failed project. Pretty much any time your run across Cerberus is a
failure on their part, and Shepard acting as a cleanup crew against compromised
Cerberus cells both cuts loose ends and protects Shepard from suspicion.



I, personally, didn't do the Kohaku missions, and you never have to
work against Cerberus, but even that can be explained as 'acceptable losses': exposed
cells that already would have been compromised, and letting Shepard act covers
tracks. Shepard remains far more important politically than those cells as
well.



Come ME2, you pick up a working relationship with TIM (and can do so in a way
which doesn't invalidate the premise), and you can continue to keep the fact
you were a Cerberus mole a secret: Jacob and Miranda were never 'in the
know' before you became to important to tell others, and after that the Council
and Alliance's concerns of your relationship with Cerberus can have a lot more
basis.





"Advancing Human Interests"



There's no need to play a Cerberus Shepard, but it can be a great deal of
fun by giving an unconventional frame of reference for playing as Shepard, and
one that doesnt actually lock you into all that much. We've seen in ME1 and 2
and the novels that there is no Cerberus archetype that every Cerberus member
is modeled to fill: you can find idealists like Kelly and cynic bastards
like The Illusive Man, pragmatics like Miranda and insecure ambitious people
like Doctor Archer, monsters like the Pragia rogue cell to frustrated Paragons
like Jacob. And eventually, of course, Shepard.



Cerberus is the full spectrum of humanity, united by one goal: Advancing
Human Interests. What that is considered, and how that happens, depends on the
person. And in this case, the Shepard you control.



You can play a human-supremacist Shepard if that's what you want: Renegade is
the politically most human-centric alignment. But you can also play Paragon as
well: you can sincerely believe that peaceful cooperation with the Aliens
is the best way to advance and defend humanity. Both soldiers and statemen
defend and advance the national interest, and so too can both Paragon and
Renegade feel it appropriate to work within Cerberus. A Renegade can see the
obvious allure. A Paragon may feel that, while Cerberus is not ideal or always
right, it does a necessary role in a non-ideal universe: a Paragon, after
all, can even see the value of Spectres, or of the genophage. A paragon
can clain to 'enlightened self-interest' as the key to advancing humanity.



You can think on it, make it into a mind-exercise. What does human interest
mean to you? If you don't think a Renegade human-centric act is good for
humanity, why would a Cerberus Shepard be compelled to do it? Is your Shepard
unfailingly perfect and consistent? Is Shepard's beliefs validated, or is TIM playing
her for a fiddle for his own designs? Shepard can hold a wrong belief just
as well as anyone else.



SImply because you're a Cerberus Shepard doesn't mean you like everything about
Cerberus either: you can be anywhere on the spectrum from total acceptance
to partial-excuses to immense unease. You can just as easily play your Shepard
as increasingly disillusioned (and eventually break with Cerberus at the end of
ME2) as you can a True Believer.



In the end, a Cerberus Shepard is no more set in stone than any other Shepard.
They can be ruthless or kind, embrace it or be trying to get away unscathed. In
the end, about the only presumption is that, at one point, your Shepard joined
Cerberus. Everything past that is up to you.







The Paragon Sole Survivor Example



The more familiar with the lore, and with limits of it, the easier it can be.
Plenty of people have complained that there would be no way a Sole Survivor
would ever, ever work with Cerberus for Akuze. Here is a case, my personal
paragon Shepard, to try and defy that belief.



Loyal Shepard was a Spacer brat. Parents in the military, moving around
constantly, she virtually grew up in a military uniform. While never staying in
any one place long enough to make lasting connections she still inherited her
father's love of the Alliance, and of Humanity. Because of that, or perhaps
because of the lack of singular connections, she grew up wanting to protect
humanity as a whole, as opposed to individuals: individuals, after all,
come and go, but the whole of humanity means that individuals like her parents,
even if they die, can make things better for everyone else. Loyal Shepard never
doubted she would join the Alliance to protect Humanity.



The difference came after Mindoir. It was a troubled time in her life, the
Alliance itself reeled in response, and she saw secondhand the suffering, the
loss, the weakness of the Alliance. Unable to stop mere slavers. Unable to
protect an entire planet. She felt that things had to change so that things
could never happen like that again. So when she heard her fathers' friends
whisper about the sort of people who were being tasked to prevent another
Mindoir, she wanted in.



Back in that day, Cerberus was solidly an Alliance Black Ops outfit, taking the
best of the best of the Alliance who could keep their mouth shut and were good
loyal humans. The best of the best, naturally, included N7's, and it wasn't
uncommon for some promising N7 recruits to be taken aside, asked a few
questions, and possibly see their careers change forever. And Shepard, at last
realized and trained as a biotic adept of immense power, was a supernova of
promise. When they asked the questions, Shepard gave all the right answers. She
was in.

 

In 2177, the colony of Akuze went off the extranet. It was immediately
covered up by the Alliance, which was reeling: who, how, was unclear. No pirate
activity had been detected or suspected. But some, the few with the right
clearances and who needed to know, knew. The colony of Akuze had discovered
signs of a new species of alien, seen on multiple planets across the galaxy,
and a Cerberus science team investigating the creatures witnessed the monsters
suddenly rise up and destroy the small colony from beneath, taking it
completely by surprise. The entire colony was destroyed,

 

(Years later, no evidence was ever supplied linking Cerberus
to causing the Thresher Maw attack. Only it’s involvement in the following
catastrophe.)

 

The Alliance was terrified: the space-born Thresher Maws were
known to live across the galaxy, and on a number of Alliance-colonized planets,
but Council law forbade study of them due to the dangers involved. What little
information there was imprecise, and political concerns at the time made the
Alliance fear asking for Council help in this matter, for fear of looking weak and
being deemed reckless for their colonization policies. Just how capable, how destructive,
how dangerous, the Maws were was unknown. Were they merely large, dangerous
beasts who’s danger was primarily if they attacked by surprise? Were they more
of a passive danger? The Alliance had no doctrine in response to them,  and no clue how dangerous they were. The
Alliance tasked Cerberus to find out just how much of a threat the Maws were to
all of the Alliance colonies, and to do so yesterday. With the time ticking
until another colony, or two, or twenty faced

 

Fifty trained, equipped, mechanized Alliance Marines, as
many as fought through the Torfan Bunker against a bunkered and prepared,
dedicated enemy wielding state of the art weaponry. A sixth of the total losses
in the First Contact War. Full combat descent into the hot zone. This was not
an unequipped, helpless force. This was not a number of helpless lambs being
led to the slaughter. This was a force that could raze a colony on its own.

 

And Shepard was their trump card, one of the most formidable
biotics in the Alliance military, a woman so capable she would nearly single-handidly
slay a Thresher Maw on foot years later. Academically, she knew the danger. But
in the pride of youth, in the ignorance of the time, in the arrogance of her
biotics, she sincerely believed that even if there was more trouble than
expected, her biotics would save the day.

 

No one, not Shepard, not the Alliance, not Cerberus, knew
just how powerful Thresher Maws actually were. It shouldn’t have happened like
it did: it should have been, if not a cake walk, an ‘acceptable’ cost. Two,
three, maybe two dozen, the reports predicted. Primarily in the initial
surprise. Not nearly the entire unit. Not monsters that could shrug off direct,
point-blank hits from a tank gun. When Shepard escaped, barely made her way to
the Cerberus recovery team, she thought she had lost all her biotic powers for
all the good they did.

The
Alliance got it's data. It learned just how dangerous the Maws were,
and just how much they needed to prepare those colonies that remained
exposed. Thresher Maw doctrine was at last made, and saved many lives
over time. But at such cost!

Shepard was the sole survivor. Traumatized, scared by the
loss of her unit, wracked by guilt: how many more would have lived had she even
just warned her comrades that there was a known threat? Why had she relied so
much on her biotics? How could she ever look anyone in the eyes again?

 

She almost quit Cerberus then. Indeed, she gave the signal
for an agent who would go offline indefitely: not the first agent to suffer a
crisis of confidence. It likely would have been a nigh-request to silence her as
well: something that could be passed off as a survivor’s guilt suicide. But it
was Shepard’s mother, Hannah Shepard, who unknowingly convinced her to stay.
Speaking to her sobbing daughter who spoke words of regret and despair that
meant one thing but Hannah believed meant another, the older Shepard gave her
daughter sage advice that would help pull her through.

 

“We all make mistakes. But that doesn’t mean we have to
quit: it means we have to work to make up those mistakes, to become the
paragons we can be to avoid those mistakes in the future.”

 

The harder, goal-oriented Shepard went away after Akuze. In
her stead a more idealist, repentant Shepard emerged: one who truly wouldn’t
sacrifice others unless no other way, no matter how hard, could be found. One
who even more than before wanted to protect Humanity, not only from the
exterior threat but from Human weakness and arrogance as well. No needless
killing, no betrayal without the most pertinent reason. One who, as she
explicitly said when she withdrew her termination request with Cerberus, would
never lead another unit into disaster blind.

 

Cerberus accepted her terms: she remained willing to work,
and her goals coincided with Cerberus’s own, even if she wouldn’t fit in with all
their projects or methods. But there were other things she could do, did do,
and did well. When the time came to select a Human Spectre, she was an ideal
choice: one who recognized diplomacy for the Alliance was not a weakness, one
who was willing to and could make bonds with others, a Paragon whose example
would reflect on other races views of humanity. And, of course, a Spectre
sympathetic to Cerberus’s concerns, and who now had the power to solve them her
way. Not all assets are measured in terms of credits gained or threats killed
rather than arrested.

 

---

 

How Loyal Shepard played:

 

When playing with a Paragon Cerberus Shepard, enlightened
self-interest was the name of the game. When diplomacy cost nothing, she used
diplomacy. When enlightened self-interest was reasonable, enlightened
self-interest, rather than just morality, was the basis of decision. A strongly
paragon slant, but with some Renegade choices here and there, reflecting Loyal
Shepard’s inner, dormant Renegade. This woman was changed, but not broken by
Akuze, and while holding a whole lot of regrets she still holds that will to
survive that marks all Sole Survivors.

 

As a profile of some choices from ME1 through 2, to give
example of how things can be justified:

 

-She paragon-convinced Bhattia to let his wife’s body be studied
to research Geth weaponry to hopefully save lives: she was sympathetic, and
would have fought to any length had it been for another reason, but any
unnecessary lives would have been too many.

 

-Saving the colonists on Feros was never a question: indeed,
it was very much a case in which she would have gladly sacrified her life to
save just one colonist. Luckily, she was good enough she didn’t need to.

 

-She saved the Rachni queen for the reason she said: she
hoped the Rachni Queen would prove a valuable ally, though she was glad she
didn’t need to commit genocide. If not, though, the greater burden for dealing
with the mess would fall on the Turians, who would almost certainly want human
help and boost the role of the Alliance in dealing with the small threat before
it grew too large.

 

-When she found Corporal Toombs, she shot him before he
could reveal his purpose. She was terrified that he would reveal what happened,
that he would expose her past and ruin everything she was trying to do (insert
possible implications that she[/i] handed
Toombs over to the Cerberus doctors, though not with the intent of being studied).
While she can even claim in hindsight she would do the same, because Saren and
the Reapers are really too important for Shepard’s true past to be revealed, it
also cemented in her mind that she just as well killed her entire unit with her
own hands, just like Toombs. With Hackett not asking questions, and Cerberus
burying the report, it’s not likely anything will ever come of it.

 

-She shut down the loose Rachni on behalf of Cerberus, but
went after Kohaku’s findings as per his last request. She hadn’t thought
Cerberus would do another Akuze, and the recent events of Toombs were still
rattling her. She reported her intent to do it to Cerberus ahead of time,
citing it as a necessity to avoid raising suspicion, but part of her wanted at
least one partial revenge on Cerberus for repeating on purpose what had once
been a tragedy. The Illusive Man understood this, but didn’t forward her
warning to the cell in question: tipping them off or evacuating them would have
risked compromising Shepard, who was far more important. But he hasn’t
forgotten her act.

 

-Even though she was romancing Kaiden, receptive to the
interest of a good, morally sound man, she left him behind on the AA tower in order
to secure the nuke. The mission was too important to compromise, but she always
intended to come back to him; Joker left without her order, even though he had
to. Her greatest regret was that she never told him the truth, about how the
woman he was interested in was such a monster.

 

-She saved the Council. It was very much the heat of the
moment, and she was still suffering a concussion from an earlier fight that
made it hard for her to understand just how the battle was unfolding: she later
quietly regrets her decision, both due to private disagreements with the
Council and for risking all sentient life needlessly. It all turned out for the
best, but when one day Miranda shares that she and the Illusive Man thought she
couldn’t have done better, she feels ashamed and wonder just how much better a
dominant Alliance could be doing to prepare for the Reapers.

 

 

 

In Mass Effect 2, far more Renegade choices actually make
sense both morally and from a Cerberus viewpoint. Loyal Shepard became more of
a Paragade, reflecting a darkening cynicism about the Council and a partial
return to her original, more renegade self now that she’s back in company with
Cerberus.

#531
Xilizhra

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It's always been an interesting idea. I doubt that I'd use that origin for my own Shepards, but I can see how it's done.

#532
Vaenier

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

While we have such an excellent topic of a fun, plausible, if not necessarily accurate idea, I thought I'd throw in a somewhat-related concept: the Shepard-could-always-have-been-with-Cerberus roleplay, copy and pasted from another, more obscure thread.

Awsome read. Very good job.

#533
Zulu_DFA

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luakel wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
The questions yet to be answered are these:
why would Cerberus arrange food shipments to a pirate gang, that
happens to own an Alliance's spy probe (which is actually a nuclear
bomb), and what does Hackett have to do with it?

Hackett is secretly masterminding Shepard's impending death by nuke?

I
know I've seen this brought up elsewhere, with you adding on that it
was an attempt by Cerberus to take Shepard out for his actions against
them.


I don't think Hackett's or Cerberus' intention was to get Shepard killed, because you can do that UNC assignment before crossing paths with Cerberus.

It's much akin to the "Lord Darrius"
quest. In the Cerberus' dossier at the Shadow Brokers it is revealed
that Cerberus started selling "surplus" weaponry to the Batarian
criminals 10 years prior to the Skyllian Blitz. This implicates the
Alliance in actually masterminding the Blitz as an excuse for continued
militarization. (Of course, the Batarians didn't know that the Human
criminals selling those weapons to them weren't mere scumbags but Alliance Black Ops agents.) Having performed their function they've
become a liability, so it's in the interest of the Alliance to
eliminate them, which gives enough reason for Hackett to want that
pirate band mopped up.

But why would Cerberus continue to
arrange shipments, and most surprizingly food to them? I think that the
food shipments actually went elsewhere (another Cerberus outpost, maybe
even on that very planet), and Hackett just killed two birds with one
stone: diverted a spectre from a Cerberus operation and sent him on a
collision course with the pirate band, which may or may not have been
present there by coincidence.



@ Dean_the_ Young:

Wow.

The only thing missing from your great wall of text is: do you think it's been intentional that the BioWare writers left such a window to roleplay Shepard as "Cerberus from the start"?

#534
Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

The only thing missing from your great wall of text is: do you think it's been intentional that the BioWare writers left such a window to roleplay Shepard as "Cerberus from the start"?


I realize I'm not Dean, but I don't think Bioware intended to leave that window open. If they intended that to be a path I believe they would have been a lot less subtle about it.

As for Dean's Cerberus Shepard, I like the idea but I find it a little contrived. I love role-playing Shepard (and I wish I could role-play a Cerberus Shepard), but personally there is not enough support in the game for me to fell immersed in that role.

#535
Dean_the_Young

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Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The only thing missing from your great wall of text is: do you think it's been intentional that the BioWare writers left such a window to roleplay Shepard as "Cerberus from the start"?


I realize I'm not Dean, but I don't think Bioware intended to leave that window open. If they intended that to be a path I believe they would have been a lot less subtle about it.

As for Dean's Cerberus Shepard, I like the idea but I find it a little contrived. I love role-playing Shepard (and I wish I could role-play a Cerberus Shepard), but personally there is not enough support in the game for me to fell immersed in that role.

There really isn't enough support to claim any sort of specific backstory, even the most bland. Bioware just about everything relating to Shepard entirely maleable by the player, including history and motivations: even the 'my sole-survivor hates Cerberus, would never work with them' is a fan-supplement (that, well, is actually countered by the lore). Shepard is meant to be a tabula rosa for you to write your impressions, motivations, and past in. It's no different for if, say, your space-born Shep has mother issues versus getting along with her well: there's no support either way about Shepard's position. Everything about Shepard's positions, views, and even why Shepard has them, is left up to the player.

A Cerberus Shepard, while certainly unusual, isn't any more artificial than any other thought-up characterization of Shepard. It falls well within the established history and facts of the game, so it's as good a hit as any.



@ Zulu: 

I doubt this was expected or intended, but it is fun. I'd get a kick if I ever heard that someone else sent this to someone on the Mass Effect team and asked 'did you or anyone else ever even think about something like this being possible?' Sort of like ugly-Shepard concept. I'd laugh if that ever got sent around the water cooler at the Bioware office, sort of a 'hey guys, laugh at this.'

That'd make my day for a few hours, at least. Hey, maybe you should do it.

#536
Zulu_DFA

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ReiSilver wrote...

One thing I'd advise Zulu is to update the first post with the 'proof' that he may have found elsewhere in this thread


And done.

#537
Skaargoroth

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 Outstanding theories and an excellent read! +10 Kudos to you, good sir!

#538
Orion55

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Interesting read. Im now expecting this to be a major revelation in ME3.

#539
Lleuen

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The Alliance is definitely funded by the governments on Earth (codex implies this), as well as inter-galactic human corporations (via corporate taxes & donations), in addition to well, a vast number of other constituents. No doubt: if you wanna do some mining in space, or take your entrepeneurial spirit to the stars, you gotta go through the Alliance, pay some fees, buy licenses, follow regulations, and pay taxes. That's probably how they get their money, in addition to manufacturing their own products -whatever they may be-, selling them (like any other State construct does), and taxing colonies in Alliance space.
Cerberus runs purely off private funding & donations, and the fact that they own a few corporations that bring in quite a bit of revenue (Cord-Hislop Aerospace).

Now, I'm not disagreeing with your hypothesis, it's certainly possible that they're still part of the Alliance, I'm just pointing out that both have different ways of allocating funds. If that's the case then, Cerberus is for that reason, still likely to have gone 'rogue' if yes, they are self-sufficient. The only thing is that, like what Vasir says about the Council and the Spectres: The Alliance may cringe at Cerberus methodology, but they never look too close. Admiral Kohoku was an obvious exception, since his concern was about what happened to his squad - a personal issue tied with the threatening of his military career.

On the other hand, Cerberus doesn't answer to the Alliance heirarchy and are independant of them, so personally, I don't think it's an intelligence agency, since they have their own agenda. It could be that they decided to break off at some point, and the Alliance sorta just let them. Doesn't mean that some Alliance officials or Ambassadors don't toss them [Cerberus] some donations every now and again, but it's a win-win situation for the people, the Alliance types, that support Cerberus, because now they're unrestricted by the policies of those that don't. In addition the Alliance can easily smear everything Cerberus does, publicly - making it all the more useful as an autonomous black-ops groups.

My point is, since Cerberus is completely self-reliant as an organization, why would they want to continue to be apart of the Alliance? Why be just some other black-ops organization swept under the rug, limited to what the Alliance wants you to do? They produce their own funds, tech, weapons, ships - they don't need to be restricted to the Alliance agenda. So: it's a better deal for Cerberus if they are simply their own entity; plus, it doesn't limit co-operation between the two in any way.

Modifié par Lleuen, 15 décembre 2010 - 07:53 .


#540
The Unfallen

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I don't care if they are or are not apart of the Alliance, they are on my Shepard's ****list and they are going down with the Reapers.

#541
Orion55

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Lleuen wrote...

The Alliance is definitely funded by the governments on Earth (codex implies this), as well as inter-galactic human corporations (via corporate taxes & donations), in addition to well, a vast number of other constituents. No doubt: if you wanna do some mining in space, or take your entrepeneurial spirit to the stars, you gotta go through the Alliance, pay some fees, buy licenses, follow regulations, and pay taxes. That's probably how they get their money, in addition to manufacturing their own products -whatever they may be-, selling them (like any other State construct does), and taxing colonies in Alliance space.
Cerberus runs purely off private funding & donations, and the fact that they own a few corporations that bring in quite a bit of revenue (Cord-Hislop Aerospace).

Im sure the Alliance taxes trade aswell. Theres a lot of money in that.

#542
BiancoAngelo7

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Very interesting to read, and even more interesting if it turns out to be true, when as the OP says, all those little things are put together you start to "see the evidence in the data" as TIM would like to say...

#543
Zulu_DFA

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Lleuen wrote...

The Alliance is definitely funded by the governments on Earth (codex implies this)

Correction: it was initially funded by Earth's governments but it gained independence after the First Contat War. As of 2180s, the Earth is one of the major consumer markets for the colonial (Alliance) goods, and that's it.


Lleuen wrote...

My point is, since Cerberus is completely self-reliant as an organization, why would they want to continue to be apart of the Alliance? Why be just some other black-ops organization swept under the rug, limited to what the Alliance wants you to do? They produce their own funds, tech, weapons, ships - they don't need to be restricted to the Alliance agenda. So: it's a better deal for Cerberus if they are simply their own entity; plus, it doesn't limit co-operation between the two in any way.

Well, Cerberus is largely self-reliant and is subject to zero oversight (which is just the flip side of full deniability for the Alliance). This was the whole point from the start. What keeps it and the Allinace together is: the common goal (advancement of Human interests, as strong standing in the Galaxy as possible, ultimately Human dominance), the mutual gain (the Alliance gets access to the critical intelligence and research data, while enjoying full deniability, and TIM gets his contributions and the green light for the "evil experiments"), and most importantly the potential risk of confrontation (TIM knows that should he veer too much into his own personal agenda, the Alliance can always start playing straigt the "terrorists" card).


Orion55 wrote

Interesting read. Im now expecting this to be a major revelation in ME3.

I am not. I think this theory won't be ever fully confirmed or denied. ME3 will possibly bring more evidence to support it, but some room for ambiguity will be left, as a fertile soil for more stories (for ME4 or whatever).

What I am really expecting is the revelation of how Cerberus was exactly created, in the upcoming Evolution comic. And I won't be shocked if there are some other familiar characters aside from TIM in the story... Maybe a Commander Hackett will rescue young TIM's arse from some tight spot...

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 décembre 2010 - 12:18 .


#544
TuringPoint

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You know, it doesn't actually change anything for me whether I imagine Cerberus is a part of the Alliance or not. I guess some people afford themselves a false dichotomy of Cerberus vs Alliance. However, even if Cerberus and the Alliance are more or less "allied," they are not truly the same organization or even part of the same organization. Individuals and groups within the Alliance range from believing in being a true-blue Alliance marine and not a Cerberus terrorist, and on down (or up) to those who believe in Cerberus' ideals and promote them as members of the Alliance, or those who are only part of Cerberus because they don't feel like the Alliance does what it's supposed to in some way.

So really, Cerberus and the Alliance aren't the same thing.  The US Government and the CIA aren't the same thing either.  However, I'd say the CIA is at least openly part of the US Government.  

If Cerberus were just the Alliance, they wouldn't need to be Cerberus, and thus a separate organization.  Collaboration is certainly done; some call those collaborators traitors, the so called  "traitors" probably call themselves heroes. 

Modifié par Alocormin, 16 décembre 2010 - 01:35 .


#545
NKKKK

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Oh look, it's this thread again.

#546
Krimson_Wolf

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Even after reading this I still fell like Cerberus is still a rouge unit, that recruits form the Alliance; and I still don't trust it. If TIM were not in charge then maybe i would see it as a need evil.

#547
The Unfallen

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Down with Cerberus! DOWN WITH IT!

#548
HappyHappyJoyJoy

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This reads like a Noam Chomsky tract.

#549
Dean_the_Young

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lleuen wrote...

The Alliance is definitely funded by the governments on Earth (codex implies this)

Correction: it was initially funded by Earth's governments but it gained independence after the First Contat War. As of 2180s, the Earth is one of the major consumer markets for the colonial (Alliance) goods, and that's it.

It's independent in the same sense that the US Federal Government. is independent of the states. The Alliance's funding, manpower, and authority are derived from the consent of the Earth nations, not itself.


What I am really expecting is the revelation of how Cerberus was exactly created, in the upcoming Evolution comic. And I won't be shocked if there are some other familiar characters aside from TIM in the story... Maybe a Commander Hackett will rescue young TIM's arse from some tight spot...

Or Anderson.

Though if there's anyone we should look for, it's that Admiral from Pinnacle Station, who actually fought there.

#550
Fiery Phoenix

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Zulu_DFA wrote...
(...)

(Because all the case for Cerberus being rogue ultimately boils down to: "Kahoku said so".)

This right here is my favorite line in the entire thread because it's very true and I can't believe I never thought of it that way before.