798 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Supplying, controling, monitoring security leaks and accounting for an intelligence agency is costly. It's more expedient to have it as a self-sufficient outfit, if you are unscrupulous enough.

[Lonely_Fat_Guy]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

applehug wrote...

While this is an interesting theory I highly doubt it's true. Just look at Hades Dogs. Why would the Alliance let it's black ops organization kill a high ranking member with no repercussions or any attempt to stop it?

Because I said, the structure of the Alliance is modular. Divisions may operate autonomously from each other and reciev instructions directly from the real policymakers. The general policy lines are vague. "Information strictly on the need-to-know basis".

Kahoku may have been a prominent marine, but he wasn't even aware of Cerberus before he found himself deep in black ops sh*t. He took a guess that Cerberus had gone rogue and told you so. But it was just his opinion, and an ill-informed one at that.

Oh, and BTW, in the "Elevator News" Kahoku's death was reported as "of natural causes".

PIEW PIEW SHOT DOWN BY SHEER LOGIC!
QFT

[klossen4]

Interesting theory never really thought about it.

[Asheer_Khan]

Seriously... all those attempts to bleach Cerberus starting to be ridiculous...



And of course that "Official report" about Kahoku's says that his death was caused by natural cause because only last moron will let open news that prominent Alliance Marine Commander was killed by ROGUE TERRORIST GROUP!!!

[Bann Duncan]

I don't think it's quite as simple as Cerberus being part of the Alliance, but it does seem to be integrated a fair extent with the upper echelon of Alliance command structure.

[Zulu_DFA]

Bann Duncan wrote...

I don't think it's quite as simple as Cerberus being part of the Alliance, but it does seem to be integrated a fair extent with the upper echelon of Alliance command structure.

That's what I am saying. Technically, Cerberus may not be in the "Official Systems Alliance phonebook". But as a matter of fact, by sheer importance to the continuous functionality of this political body, they are more of the Alliance, than some "Committee for Transhuman Studies".

[glasgoo21]

Interested in seeing where this discussion is going....

[atheelogos]

BigBody26 wrote...

Why would the alliance allow you to kill so many Cerberus operatives and shut down so many of their experiments in ME1 then? If your idea is correct though, I still hope we get a chance to shut Cerberus down, then TIM reveals the truth to us(that Udina knew about it all along), then we get to kill Udina! Oh the satisfaction that would bring.

"Why would the alliance allow you to kill so many Cerberus operatives and
shut down so many of their experiments in ME1 then?" Well I could ask this. Why would the Alliance allow Cerberus to spill Eelement zero all over peaceful cities? The Alliance isn't as bright and shiny as you think. Some of the most horrendous things Cerberus ever did was done while they were working for the Alliance. Is it really out of the realm of possabilities for them to kill off a handfull of expendable agents? I don't think so.

[atheelogos]

Bann Duncan wrote...

I don't think it's quite as simple as Cerberus being part of the Alliance, but it does seem to be integrated a fair extent with the upper echelon of Alliance command structure.

Agreed.

[Bann Duncan]

atheelogos wrote...

Bann Duncan wrote...

I don't think it's quite as simple as Cerberus being part of the Alliance, but it does seem to be integrated a fair extent with the upper echelon of Alliance command structure.

Agreed.

We have a fair bit of evidence for this as well, such as when EDI mentions Cerberus involvement in the SR-1's production.

[MadCat221]

The difference between the STG and Cerberus is this.



STG believes in "by whatever means necessary".



Cerberus believes in "by whatever means expedient".



That is why Cerberus is a threat to galactic stability and STG is not.



That is also the difference between Paragon and Renegade...

[atheelogos]

MadCat221 wrote...

The difference between the STG and Cerberus is this.

STG believes in "by whatever means necessary".

Cerberus believes in "by whatever means expedient".

That is why Cerberus is a threat to galactic stability and STG is not.

That is also the difference between Paragon and Renegade...

"Cerberus believes in "by whatever means expedient"." I couln't disagree more. They don't always take the easy road. Prime example is them bringing Shepard back to life. That was not quick and was not easy.

[Flamewielder]

Quoted from mass effect wiki:



"The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space. [Backed by Earth's most powerful nations], the Alliance has become humanity's military, exploratory and economic spearhead. While the Alliance is relatively new to the galactic community, it has already made a name for itself, gaining humans an embassy on the Presidium. The Alliance is governed by a parliament based at Arcturus Station; the station also serves as the Alliance's capital. "



From the codex entries, Bioware makes it clear that the Alliance is a type of supra governmental agency financially backed by states, NOT corporations. Cerberus WAS a part of the Alliance military at some point and was most certainly used as a "deniable asset" but it is clearly out of the Alliance's control now. Cerberus IS backed by front corporations and is much more a corporate creature than the Alliance ever was.



Spectres are the Council's equivalent of pre-rogue Cerberus. It is reasonable that some spectres may have dabbled in morally questionable projects that were intended to ultimately benefit the Council

[Terraneaux]

The idea of Cerberus not being rogue is retarded. They murdered Alliance soldiers and went outside of the chain of command. They are traitors to the SA. There is NO evidence to suggest otherwise. If they weren't rogue they would have told Shep at the beginning of ME2 to secure his/her loyalty.

[Zulu_DFA]

Terraneaux wrote...

The idea of Cerberus not being rogue is retarded. They murdered Alliance soldiers and went outside of the chain of command. They are traitors to the SA. There is NO evidence to suggest otherwise. If they weren't rogue they would have told Shep at the beginning of ME2 to secure his/her loyalty.

Inside Cerberus only TIM knows what is its exact relation to the Alliance. In the Alliance only a few people (maybe up to several dozen) know that, but Shepard is obviously below the level of clearence to carry such sensitive information in his head.

As for the nefariousness of Cerberus experiments and killing Alliance soldiers... Well, from the today's point of view Alliance has an inherently corrupt form of government. The people, the so called "public" has no real say in decision making but it comes so hand in hand with the space colonization. Maybe TIM has even had some unpleasant conferences with his "backers" over some of the "incidents", but it also is not meant for Shepards' knowledge.

[GreedIsNoException]

Quite from Mass Effect Wikia:

If asked, Anderson is surprised at the question: he asks where Shepard heard Banes' name, then decides he does not want to know. According to Anderson, Banes is dead, and has been for some time, though this is not common knowledge. His corpse was found on a ship that had been left adrift in the Sparta system, but beyond that, Anderson cannot tell Shepard more. He points the Commander in the direction of Rear Admiral Kahoku, as one of Kahoku's crews found Banes' body. Shepard can speak to Kahoku regarding Banes, but only discovers that the marines who found his body are now missing.



So if you are correct in you theory you may take this paragraph as proof that this thread is "retarded" and not "logical". But the truth is this paragraph may even point out to help support this theory.

Cerberus gains it's members Alliance (mostly, few exceptions in the who can you trust department). Now let's say the members of Kahoku's squad join Cerberus by some discovery or are asked to. Seeing Kohaku get all worked up and tries his best to find them (even going to Shadow Broker). They either decide to eliminate him or make him join. Making him join Cerberus seems a rather more intelligent thing because they could use that against the Shadow Broker. Make "them" believe he needs something more and somehwat gaining the upper hand (if used correctly.)



If Banes=TIM, that might make Dr Chloe to be an ex-Cerberus (atleast when it was Allience). Which is why she is hunted, she stole something. Now I'm afraid she discovers you alive too quick (like Anderson) and Garrus is still you know... "missing" at the time she sends this. (Just after gaining him in your squad).

Why is TIM leading Cerberus? Whether he is Banes or not it's because he's smart and knows how to cover his tracks (even if it means a bad reputation).



Of course this all contradicts itself but why would the Alliance not send in looking for missing troops? Why'd they send an official Alliance personal (Kaiden or Ashley) in Horizon? Why was Cerberus in on the making of the Nomandy... even having the blueprints. (I bet the contruction of SR2 started way before the death of the first Nomandy).

[Knoll Argonar]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

The idea of Cerberus not being rogue is retarded. They murdered Alliance soldiers and went outside of the chain of command. They are traitors to the SA. There is NO evidence to suggest otherwise. If they weren't rogue they would have told Shep at the beginning of ME2 to secure his/her loyalty.

Inside Cerberus only TIM knows what is its exact relation to the Alliance. In the Alliance only a few people (maybe up to several dozen) know that, but Shepard is obviously below the level of clearence to carry such sensitive information in his head.

As for the nefariousness of Cerberus experiments and killing Alliance soldiers... Well, from the today's point of view Alliance has an inherently corrupt form of government. The people, the so called "public" has no real say in decision making but it comes so hand in hand with the space colonization. Maybe TIM has even had some unpleasant conferences with his "backers" over some of the "incidents", but it also is not meant for Shepards' knowledge.

I think it would make sense.

Cerberus works with cells, independent projects with different missions and very very few people that inform TIM personally, even if those cells are working for the same goal, like Lazarus, the Reaper IFF cell and the Normandy Cell were.

Alliance could be exactly the same, having political, economic, military, scientific and finally the "secret ops" (Cerberus) divisions. That means very few people know about how everything is organised, and most divisions know nothing about the others. Kahoku didn't know anything about Cerberus before he told you so.

And Revelation and Ascension books could even fit with that response. Anderson knew nothing about Sanders work, for example and, in the end, TIM was using project Ascencion from the Alliance to research even more in biotics.

I like the idea. A lot.

[Exile Isan]

I'd like to point out that Anderson knows you're alive so quickly because Cereberus let it leak that you were alive and working for Cerberus. Kaidan/Ashley tells you this on Horizon and if you call TIM out on it, he tells you straight up that he told the Alliance about Shep being alive and with Cerberus.

[Xaijin]

They are intertwined, but they are not one and the same.



Blackstone security contains military and ex-military personnel. Blackstone is not part of the military and never will be.

[Zulu_DFA]

Xaijin wrote...

They are intertwined, but they are not one and the same.

Blackstone security contains military and ex-military personnel. Blackstone is not part of the military and never will be.

Systems Alliance is not United States either

[Mcjon01]

The real question is, if Cerberus is a three-headed dog, how come it's run by just one guy? I think Joker is onto something big here.

[Zulu_DFA]

Mcjon01 wrote...

The real question is, if Cerberus is a three-headed dog, how come it's run by just one guy? I think Joker is onto something big here.

Very funny. So, if Normandy is a province in France, why is it flying in Space?

[Onyx Jaguar]

Thread Hijack bump

[nikki191]

i suspect they are technically independent from the alliance, but thy work together and were probably set up by the alliance as a deniable asset. the "going rogue" comment does seem to suggest they had a serious alliance connection. but maybe its a case of some cells going rogue rather than the whole organisation

[Big Yam]

I believe there is no official connection (and no paper trail), but it's clear that the same corporations that fund/bribe the alliance management also channel funds into Cerberus. These are the people that control both organisations.