101 réponses à ce sujet

[qq151069]

Does any class need a bonus power?

Most of the time, it seems like all of the classes have a specialized skill (or sets of skills) which can handle any situation making any bonus power seem weak in comparison. 

I can understand adding a bonus power for role playing purposes, but for speed running though a game, does it ever make sense to add a bonus power to any class?

Note: I've mostly played engineers, vanguards, and infiltrators so I cannot say too much about adepts, sentinels, or soliders.  However, from what I've seen, bonus powers don't seem to add to the overall destructiveness of any one character.

[xedgorex]

For speed? reave.

For not being lame, no.

[qq151069]

lol.



@xedgorex

I completely missed your thread about the same topic.

[RamsenC]

Soldiers: Don't need a bonus power at all. I prefer getting all three ammo types and giving my squad cryo ammo.

Engineers: You can replace Incendiary Blast with Area Reave, but that will only be beneficial against Collectors and the occasional enemy Vanguard. Still worth it since it also allows you to set up warp explosions.

Adept: Energy Drain is a nice addition, but since theres plenty of squad mates with overload I would not say its needed. Still not a bad idea though and theres really nothing else worth getting. 

Sentinel: Does not need a bonus power, but I usually get Energy Drain instead of Overload for refilling Tech Armor. Probably needs a bonus power the least.

Infiltrator: Getting AP or Warp ammo is probably a good idea since Infiltrators get no ammo type for armor or health. Infiltrator can make the best use of having a bonus power.

Vanguard: This class already has everything it needs. Even from a power gaming perspective I would not suggest getting a bonus power since it will take away points you can use on your core skills. If you have spare points choose a power that doesn't need many points to be good, like barrier. One point in barrier will refill your shields instantly and saves you a medi-gel.

Modifié par RamsenC, 07 mars 2010 - 05:35 .

[qq151069]

RamsenC wrote...

Infiltrator: Getting AP or Warp ammo is probably a good idea since Infiltrators get no ammo type for armor or health. Infiltrator can make the best use of having a bonus power.

Vanguard: This class already has everything it needs. Even from a power gaming perspective I would not suggest getting a bonus power since it will take away points you can use on your core skills. If you have spare points choose a power that doesn't need many points to be good, like barrier. One point in barrier will refill your shields instantly and saves you a medi-gel.

Will getting AP ammo really help an infiltrator that much?  The infiltrator already gets incinerate to deal with armor.  Also, with the widow + cloaking, most enemies can be killed with a headshot so isn't the ammo really overkill?  I can see an infiltrator getting warp ammo to deal with barriers but wouldn't spending all your points to max out the infiltrator's innate skills be better?

As for barrier on a vanguard, that really helped when I was learning how to charge.  Without that 1pt in barrier, I'd be dying every 6 seconds on Freedom's Progress.    Barrier was definitely my vanguard "trainning wheels".

Edit: (To derail my own thread) And thank you, RamsenC and the entire vanguard community, for making the vanguard really a class to be reckoned with.

Modifié par qq151069, 07 mars 2010 - 05:51 .

[infinite bias]

qq151069 wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

Infiltrator: Getting AP or Warp ammo is probably a good idea since Infiltrators get no ammo type for armor or health. Infiltrator can make the best use of having a bonus power.

Vanguard: This class already has everything it needs. Even from a power gaming perspective I would not suggest getting a bonus power since it will take away points you can use on your core skills. If you have spare points choose a power that doesn't need many points to be good, like barrier. One point in barrier will refill your shields instantly and saves you a medi-gel.

Will getting AP ammo really help an infiltrator that much?  The infiltrator already gets incinerate to deal with armor.  Also, with the widow + cloaking, most enemies can be killed with a headshot so isn't the ammo really overkill?  I can see an infiltrator getting warp ammo to deal with barriers but wouldn't spending all your points to max out the infiltrator's innate skills be better?

As for barrier on a vanguard, that really helped when I was learning how to charge.  Without that 1pt in barrier, I'd be dying every 6 seconds on Freedom's Progress.    Barrier was definitely my vanguard "trainning wheels".

Edit: (To derail my own thread) And thank you, RamsenC and the entire vanguard community, for making the vanguard really a class to be reckoned with.

AP is great for adding to Infiltrator's burst damage. Couple of things: 1) You don't get the widow until midgame (assuming you're going for it at all) and AP really help increase dps on Viper & Mantis. 2) You won't be cloaked 100% of the time. 3) AP ammo is more beneficial for non collector missions, armour is FAR more common than barriers, just respec to warp ammo on collector fights.
The infiltrator can afford to fully invest in a bonus skill, all it needs to max are cloak, incinerate, passive, and disruptor ammo. Thats a total of only 40 points, leaving 10 for bonus and 1 for AI hack.

[cxensign]

Your bonus power is usually going to be either unused or kept at 1 point until fairly late in the game.  The only exception to this is the Infiltrator, who benefits immensely from Armor Piercing or Warp Ammo early on.

Engineer and Adept will benefit from a single point in Armor Piercing Ammo if you don't want to upgrade any of your other powers with a bonus substitute; Soldier and Vanguard can both benefit from a 1 point Slam early in the game.

Things change in the endgame when your core powers have been maxed and you start building up extra points.  That's when different and higher specced bonus powers become attractive from a powergaming perspective.

Sentinel is deep enough that there's good reason to avoid bonus powers entirely, even endgame (via 4 in Throw, Warp, Armor, Overload, and class skill, with the leftover for Cryo) - though if you're making good use of your tech armor, it's hard to say no to a 1 point, 30% damage boost.

[thisisme8]

RamsenC wrote...

Infiltrator: Getting AP or Warp ammo is probably a good idea since Infiltrators get no ammo type for armor or health. Infiltrator can make the best use of having a bonus power.

Or you could just get in close enough so your weapons do double damage...  not that any sane Infiltrator would do that, but I heard about a mysterious guy with a beard that has done it before.

Disclaimer:  I play that way and in no way, shape, or form do I claim it to be superior, better, or cooler than the normal way of playing an Infiltrator, which probably kills faster and lives longer.  I do, however, claim that you will experience a sudden growth of manly hair on your chin and/or chest.

[Radahldo]

I am interested in your CQC Infiltrator, but I rather perserve the smoothness of my face (a rarity among the dwarves). This will require much deliberation.

[thisisme8]

I have to admit something to you... the first bits of stubble began to grow when I first rolled my 2H warrior for DA:O. The full beard didn't happen until I started playing a Vanguard when ME2 came out. After my CQC Infiltrator was when it covered my chest and back.

[Arde5643]

@thisisme8: nothing's as manly as going mano-to-mano with 2 scions with a shotgun adept! nothing!

And yeah, that was a full-blown beard and scars for my Shep.

[swk3000]

Soldiers really don't need one. The only one that really makes any sense to take is Warp Ammo, and that's only because it's the only ammo power that does any sort of extra damage to Barriers. Everything else the Soldier needs is already included in the class' core build.

[Besetment]

RamsenC wrote...
Infiltrator: Getting AP or Warp ammo is probably a good idea since Infiltrators get no ammo type for armor or health. Infiltrator can make the best use of having a bonus power.

Infiltrator doesn't really need a bonus power for the early game. This is assuming the difficulty is Insanity+. The only time I started to notice a real difference with Tungsten rounds is when I was about 3/5 SR upgraded with the +50% headshot damage upgrade since at that point you can do things like strip Krogan armour entirely in 1 cloaked headshot. Prior to that having Tungsten rounds over ammo power doesn't make any difference since you can still kil weak armoured targets like Vorcha in 1 widow headshot with no ammo power, no cloak and no upgrades.

The first 2 are easy to get (Omega Market and  Rodam Expeditions). The 3rd is on Korlus which is frustrating because theres alot of Krogan here. So the earliest you can get 3/5 is to do Cereberus Station, Freedom's Progress, Mordin's Recruitment on Omega and then Korlus.

Now, if you max Tungsten rounds, you need to give up one power. Most people sac Cryo ammo and do with 1 point AI Hacking but this is inflexible and means you consciously give yourself a harder time in some missions.

The best solution is to be flexible since on NG+ you have tonnes of eezo. This sometimes means you will take a bonus power because its appropriate and other times you won't. Some missions you can benefit from having Tungsten rounds (Mordin's Loyalty mission and Grunt's Loyalty mission) since they pop up after you are 3/5 upgraded and have lots of Krogan. Other times its complete overkill to have Tungsten rounds so respec. On Horizon I much prefer to roll with squad Cryo and no bonus power for close quarter SMG play OR Area Reave and no Incinerate. Afterwards, respec because you won't be dealing with mass barriers for a long while. On Haestrom I much prefer Squad Disruptor + Area AI Hacking + 1 point Cryo ammo and no bonus power.

As a wise dude called Bruce Lee once said:

'Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way round or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves.

If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend.'

Modifié par Besetment, 07 mars 2010 - 12:08 .

[JnEricsonx]

Too bad there's no real hand to hand butt-kicking in ME.

[Kronner]

No, well if you wanna spam the most overpowered biotic talent then go ahead and grab Reave, but other than that every class has all the tools you need.

[RamsenC]

Personally I would play infiltrator with AP ammo, disrupter ammo, and squad cryo ammo. I don't feel I need incinerate with that set up.

[Jincredible]

JnEricsonx wrote...

Too bad there's no real hand to hand butt-kicking in ME.

You need punch the hell out of enemies if you're want play a Vanguard effectively. It's probably one of the reasons I love the class so much (that and charge)

[Gaidren]

Barrier for Vanguards

Energy Drain for Adepts, Infiltrators (surprised nobody else likes it for Infils)

Reave for Sentinels (I prefer it to Warp, and it doesn't take points in Throw to unlock)

ArP or Warp ammo for Soldiers, Engineers



On the topic of Energy Drain and Infiltrators...Infils may have Disruptor Ammo but it can be very nice to have a way of stripping shields that doesn't require burning ammo. I find ammo (especially sniper rifle ammo) to be a real issue with Infiltrators so playing as a "caster" class from time to time to soften things up first is really helpful. Obviously swap out Energy Drain for Warp Ammo on Collector levels.

[thisisme8]

Arde5643 wrote...

@thisisme8: nothing's as manly as going mano-to-mano with 2 scions with a shotgun adept! nothing!
And yeah, that was a full-blown beard and scars for my Shep.

Oh, don't get me started!  I'll go toe to toe with anyone, but I don't know about a beard and scars...  you can lock them down with Singularity which effectlively neuters them.  Engineers can do the same with drone.  I know it won't completely lock them both for easy pickens or anything, but it doesn't hurt.

[DragoonKain3]

xedgorex wrote...

For speed? reave.
For not being lame, no.

For powergamers, there is no lame/cheap, only POWER.

But seriously, xedgorex is right on the money in regards to speed. Reave is borderline broken in that I personally found my engineer, sentinel, and adept playthroughs to much easier and faster with it (and by the looks of some people's videos, Vanguard as well). Not to say you can't complete Insanity without Reave with these classes, just that you can complete it faster. I mean, considering its a combination of Warp against protection, Pull AND half-cd Barrier against organic health, all at a 3m AoE that needs no setup (unlike Warp Explosion), it better damn well make those runs faster. XD

Note also that Reave's versatility means its valuable to different classes for different reasons. Engineers lack a way to strip barriers in one shot, Sentinels lack AoE CC skills against organics, and Adepts lack survivability. And looking at videos, Vanguards use it to cover their main weakness; mid- to long-range combat.

Can't say anything about Soldiers/Infiltrators though, but considering those two have activated skills more broken than Reave *cough*ARush*cough*cloak*cough*, I don't think they'd get much use of any bonus power. Barring maybe AP/Warp ammo for pure offense, of course.

[Kronner]

As a Vanguard you may be faster with Reave in some situations, but most of the time it is a lot faster, not to mention cooler, to just Charge and shoot everyone.

[sinosleep]

Basing it from videos made by community members here, there is all of ONE person who uses it with any kind of regularity on the vanguard. Personally I'm always going to consider reave far more broken than anything else in the game. Cloak and AR at the end of the day are WEAPON skills, and as such they require some semblance of skill and participation on the part of the player. Reave on the other hand is simply an I win button. Being a biotic instacast ability it requires no skill to aim whatsoever and then does all of these things 1. strips barriers 2. strips armor 3. is an AOE 4. is instacast, 5. restores health . All of that combined is entirely too much crap to come from ONE ability. Here's a video of a soldier making it through the first part of the suicide run without firing a single shot from his weapon in pretty quick time using nothing but reave and his squad. It's just silly.

Modifié par sinosleep, 07 mars 2010 - 04:29 .

[Kurupt87]

you forgot 6. CC on organic health, pretty long too, and makes 'em stand up.

[sinosleep]

Whoops, don't know how on earth I forgot to mention the CC. I really don't see how anyone could argue it's not OP.

[DragoonKain3]

Pretty sure you get the ragdoll damage bonus as well during that CC. Only problem is that they tend to squat and stand during the CC, meaning that its harder to aim headshots with it than other CC powers.



So yeah, Reave OP? Probably, but all that translates to a powergamer is that its THE best bonus skill to get for at least half the classes. Which I guess answers the TC's question about if they're worth getting to speed run through the game.