38 réponses à ce sujet

[bluebullets]

Expect loads of spoilers.. Possibly incuding end game, in game, and end-books


First off, Urtha is a dumb b*tch.. Does she not have a conscience or feelings anymore.. Or any intellect at all?

"Oh, i have descovered the architects rediculous plan, and he just murdered ma friends! Lets go escape with him and destroy humanity!!"

Secondly, is it Fiona that died, or allistair's "fake mother"? If it was Fiona, do we know how?

Also, do we know how Maric died? its in neither of the books and I haven't heard of it in game..


Lastly, is it fair to assume that the architect betrayed everybody, considering that there was another blight? (You and Allistair ended it)

[Kryyptehk]

First, there was no need to make two threads that had the same point in it.
Second, we don't know Fiona is Alistair's mother (mostly because she isn't, IMO). So it was Alistair's real mother who died.
And I don't think it says in the book or in the game how Maric died. It is assumed he died in battle.

Modifié par Kryyptehk, 07 mars 2010 - 06:24 .

[Freckles04]

Kryyptehk wrote...

And I don't think it says in the book or in the game how Maric died. It is assumed he died in battle.

Actually, DG has stated that Maric died at sea. I'll see if I can dig up the quote...

[bluebullets]

Kryyptehk wrote...

First, there was no need to make two threads that had the same point in it.
Second, we don't know Fiona is Alistair's mother (mostly because she isn't, IMO). So it was Alistair's real mother who died.
And I don't think it says in the book or in the game how Maric died. It is assumed he died in battle.

It is implied. the elven child that is to be hidden and separated from the throne so it does not affect Calin's rule, and he is to be watched over by duncan.

Use your wits.. Of course Allistair is the son of Fiona.

[Kryyptehk]

Freckles04 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

And I don't think it says in the book or in the game how Maric died. It is assumed he died in battle.

Actually, DG has stated that Maric died at sea. I'll see if I can dig up the quote...

Ah, I think I heard people talking about that (in relation to the ship in the Fade) but I thought they were talking about when Rowan died. My bad. I'd love to see the quote if you find it.

[AntiChri5]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Freckles04 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

And I don't think it says in the book or in the game how Maric died. It is assumed he died in battle.

Actually, DG has stated that Maric died at sea. I'll see if I can dig up the quote...

Ah, I think I heard people talking about that (in relation to the ship in the Fade) but I thought they were talking about when Rowan died. My bad. I'd love to see the quote if you find it.

Rowan just got sick.

[Freckles04]

Here we go: http://social.biowar...174084/2#212241

David Gaider wrote...

Is there not a codex entry for Maric? I see that there isn't -- I thought there was.

If you're truly curious, Maric was lost at sea. Nothing more glamorous than that. Sometimes people simply die.

[Freckles04]

For the record, I'm in the Fiona-is-Alistair's-mother camp, but I guess we won't know for sure until they decide to reveal it to us.



As far as we know, Fiona is still alive.

Modifié par Freckles04, 07 mars 2010 - 06:33 .

[Kryyptehk]

bluebullets wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

First, there was no need to make two threads that had the same point in it.
Second, we don't know Fiona is Alistair's mother (mostly because she isn't, IMO). So it was Alistair's real mother who died.
And I don't think it says in the book or in the game how Maric died. It is assumed he died in battle.

It is implied. the elven child that is to be hidden and separated from the throne so it does not affect Calin's rule, and he is to be watched over by duncan.

Use your wits.. Of course Allistair is the son of Fiona.

Oh really? Funny that Alistair isn't a mage, like her. And that he has reddish hair like his sister. And why would his sister lie about that? Or, for that matter, why would her pregnant mother lie about it when she had nothing to gain from it (as you said, no chance at the throne or riches for that matter)? And it's funny that he isn't be watched over by Duncan, but by Arl Eamon. Duncan recruits him later.

Please do not question my wits, sir. I will believe he is Fiona's son when the game says he is. Not when it is implied. Not before.

[Addai]

I have to say I didn't understand Urtha at all. Since she appears in Awakenings, maybe we'll get a chance to hear her motivation for doing what she did.

[Kryyptehk]

Freckles04 wrote...

Here we go: http://social.biowar...174084/2#212241

David Gaider wrote...

Is there not a codex entry for Maric? I see that there isn't -- I thought there was.

If you're truly curious, Maric was lost at sea. Nothing more glamorous than that. Sometimes people simply die.

Thank you, I wish they had added that with the patch. That would dispell some confusion.

[Kryyptehk]

Addai67 wrote...

I have to say I didn't understand Urtha at all. Since she appears in Awakenings, maybe we'll get a chance to hear her motivation for doing what she did.

Yeah, it kind of came out of nowhere. I'm excited for them to expand on that.

[Addai]

Sorry, it's Utha, not Urtha.

[AntiChri5]

Kryyptehk wrote...

bluebullets wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

First, there was no need to make two threads that had the same point in it.
Second, we don't know Fiona is Alistair's mother (mostly because she isn't, IMO). So it was Alistair's real mother who died.
And I don't think it says in the book or in the game how Maric died. It is assumed he died in battle.

It is implied. the elven child that is to be hidden and separated from the throne so it does not affect Calin's rule, and he is to be watched over by duncan.

Use your wits.. Of course Allistair is the son of Fiona.

Oh really? Funny that Alistair isn't a mage, like her. And that he has reddish hair like his sister. And why would his sister lie about that? Or, for that matter, why would her pregnant mother lie about it when she had nothing to gain from it (as you said, no chance at the throne or riches for that matter)? And it's funny that he isn't be watched over by Duncan, but by Arl Eamon. Duncan recruits him later.

Please do not question my wits, sir. I will believe he is Fiona's son when the game says he is. Not when it is implied. Not before.

Alistair is blond like his half brother and father, not all mage kids become mages. Lets not forget that everything Ali knows about his mother is pieced together from rumours and it is explicitly stated that there will be a coverup regarding Fionas son. Just because Goldannas mother got pregnant to the king doesnt mean it was Alistair.

[bluebullets]

Kryyptehk wrote...

bluebullets wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

First, there was no need to make two threads that had the same point in it.
Second, we don't know Fiona is Alistair's mother (mostly because she isn't, IMO). So it was Alistair's real mother who died.
And I don't think it says in the book or in the game how Maric died. It is assumed he died in battle.

It is implied. the elven child that is to be hidden and separated from the throne so it does not affect Calin's rule, and he is to be watched over by duncan.

Use your wits.. Of course Allistair is the son of Fiona.

Oh really? Funny that Alistair isn't a mage, like her. And that he has reddish hair like his sister. And why would his sister lie about that? Or, for that matter, why would her pregnant mother lie about it when she had nothing to gain from it (as you said, no chance at the throne or riches for that matter)? And it's funny that he isn't be watched over by Duncan, but by Arl Eamon. Duncan recruits him later.

Please do not question my wits, sir. I will believe he is Fiona's son when the game says he is. Not when it is implied. Not before.

Being a decendant of a mage does not seal your fate as a mage yourself. Genetics.. If your great grand mother was african, and you and your wife are white, there is a chance your chil will be black.. The hair colour is not extremely significant.

it is explicitly stated that there will be a coverup regarding Fionas son.

And he was being watched over by Duncan I highly doubt that it was a coincedence he was rrecruited.

NOW the only argument that is not remarkably invalid is this:
"Why did Allistair have to go through thr joining if he was Fiona's child? Would he not be born tainted?"

I still believe he is her kid, regardless though.

Modifié par bluebullets, 07 mars 2010 - 06:46 .

[Kryyptehk]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

bluebullets wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

First, there was no need to make two threads that had the same point in it.
Second, we don't know Fiona is Alistair's mother (mostly because she isn't, IMO). So it was Alistair's real mother who died.
And I don't think it says in the book or in the game how Maric died. It is assumed he died in battle.

It is implied. the elven child that is to be hidden and separated from the throne so it does not affect Calin's rule, and he is to be watched over by duncan.

Use your wits.. Of course Allistair is the son of Fiona.

Oh really? Funny that Alistair isn't a mage, like her. And that he has reddish hair like his sister. And why would his sister lie about that? Or, for that matter, why would her pregnant mother lie about it when she had nothing to gain from it (as you said, no chance at the throne or riches for that matter)? And it's funny that he isn't be watched over by Duncan, but by Arl Eamon. Duncan recruits him later.

Please do not question my wits, sir. I will believe he is Fiona's son when the game says he is. Not when it is implied. Not before.

Alistair is blond like his half brother and father, not all mage kids become mages. Lets not forget that everything Ali knows about his mother is pieced together from rumours and it is explicitly stated that there will be a coverup regarding Fionas son. Just because Goldannas mother got pregnant to the king doesnt mean it was Alistair.

Yes, I know. I tend to over-react. Especially if someone tells me to "use my wits". I know that there is a good chance that Alistair is Fiona's but I personally don't think he is.

And he's hair has a reddish tint to it

[AntiChri5]

Kryyptehk wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

bluebullets wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

First, there was no need to make two threads that had the same point in it.
Second, we don't know Fiona is Alistair's mother (mostly because she isn't, IMO). So it was Alistair's real mother who died.
And I don't think it says in the book or in the game how Maric died. It is assumed he died in battle.

It is implied. the elven child that is to be hidden and separated from the throne so it does not affect Calin's rule, and he is to be watched over by duncan.

Use your wits.. Of course Allistair is the son of Fiona.

Oh really? Funny that Alistair isn't a mage, like her. And that he has reddish hair like his sister. And why would his sister lie about that? Or, for that matter, why would her pregnant mother lie about it when she had nothing to gain from it (as you said, no chance at the throne or riches for that matter)? And it's funny that he isn't be watched over by Duncan, but by Arl Eamon. Duncan recruits him later.

Please do not question my wits, sir. I will believe he is Fiona's son when the game says he is. Not when it is implied. Not before.

Alistair is blond like his half brother and father, not all mage kids become mages. Lets not forget that everything Ali knows about his mother is pieced together from rumours and it is explicitly stated that there will be a coverup regarding Fionas son. Just because Goldannas mother got pregnant to the king doesnt mean it was Alistair.

Yes, I know. I tend to over-react. Especially if someone tells me to "use my wits". I know that there is a good chance that Alistair is Fiona's but I personally don't think he is.

And he's hair has a reddish tint to it

Honestly my main reason for thinking it is that it is all just too damn convenient otherwise,

[Freckles04]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Alistair is blond like his half brother and father, not all mage kids become mages. Lets not forget that everything Ali knows about his mother is pieced together from rumours and it is explicitly stated that there will be a coverup regarding Fionas son. Just because Goldannas mother got pregnant to the king doesnt mean it was Alistair.

One of the great things about this game is that EVERYTHING is coloured by perception and the point of view of the person sharing the information. It is a complex and convoluted web of information that may or may not be true.

Based on Maric's personality in the books, I highly doubt he fathered a child on a random servant. He didn't strike me as the type to sleep around, seeing as he cared deeply for the three women he was with, and they were all serial monogamous relationships.

I can't help but wonder if Goldanna's mother spread the rumour about the babe being the king's in the hopes for a future payout, and Goldanna, of course, latched onto the lie believing it to be truth. Then Eamon/Maric decided to make use of that story to cover up Alistair's parentage.

Hm. Then it becomes awfully coincidental that the mother and babe happened to die in childbirth. Perhaps the murder knife made an early appearance...?  How awful.

Anyways. Short story: no, we don't know if the babe at the end of The Calling is Alistair, but I sure hope it is, and that he'll meet his mother someday.

[Freckles04]

bluebullets wrote...


NOW the only argument that is not remarkably invalid is this:
"Why did Allistair have to go through thr joining if he was Fiona's child? Would he not be born tainted?"

You're going to make me go quote-searching again, aren't you? 

DG has said that the main reason for Morrigan's ritual is to create a tainted child. A child born to a Grey Warden normally is not tainted.

:::off to search for the quote:::

ETA: My searchfu is not strong enough.

Modifié par Freckles04, 07 mars 2010 - 06:59 .

[Kryyptehk]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

bluebullets wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

First, there was no need to make two threads that had the same point in it.
Second, we don't know Fiona is Alistair's mother (mostly because she isn't, IMO). So it was Alistair's real mother who died.
And I don't think it says in the book or in the game how Maric died. It is assumed he died in battle.

It is implied. the elven child that is to be hidden and separated from the throne so it does not affect Calin's rule, and he is to be watched over by duncan.

Use your wits.. Of course Allistair is the son of Fiona.

Oh really? Funny that Alistair isn't a mage, like her. And that he has reddish hair like his sister. And why would his sister lie about that? Or, for that matter, why would her pregnant mother lie about it when she had nothing to gain from it (as you said, no chance at the throne or riches for that matter)? And it's funny that he isn't be watched over by Duncan, but by Arl Eamon. Duncan recruits him later.

Please do not question my wits, sir. I will believe he is Fiona's son when the game says he is. Not when it is implied. Not before.

Alistair is blond like his half brother and father, not all mage kids become mages. Lets not forget that everything Ali knows about his mother is pieced together from rumours and it is explicitly stated that there will be a coverup regarding Fionas son. Just because Goldannas mother got pregnant to the king doesnt mean it was Alistair.

Yes, I know. I tend to over-react. Especially if someone tells me to "use my wits". I know that there is a good chance that Alistair is Fiona's but I personally don't think he is.

And he's hair has a reddish tint to it

Honestly my main reason for thinking it is that it is all just too damn convenient otherwise,

Well, to be honest, my main reason for thinking that he isn't Fiona's son is because he isn't a mage and I don't like the idea of Maric killing the pregnant servant and her baby (like Freckles said).

@ Freckles. The idea of Alistair meeting his mommy nearly makes me want to convert to the Fiona-sired-Alistair cart. But then i would be foolish for fighting it so much. Damn you and your "Alistair could finally have a family" argument that appeals to my Alistair fangirl-ness.

[Cuddlezarro]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Freckles04 wrote...

Here we go: http://social.biowar...174084/2#212241

David Gaider wrote...

Is there not a codex entry for Maric? I see that there isn't -- I thought there was.

If you're truly curious, Maric was lost at sea. Nothing more glamorous than that. Sometimes people simply die.

Thank you, I wish they had added that with the patch. That would dispell some confusion.

eh there is actually a codex entry that states maric died at sea though >_>

[Kryyptehk]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Freckles04 wrote...

Here we go: http://social.biowar...174084/2#212241

David Gaider wrote...

Is there not a codex entry for Maric? I see that there isn't -- I thought there was.

If you're truly curious, Maric was lost at sea. Nothing more glamorous than that. Sometimes people simply die.

Thank you, I wish they had added that with the patch. That would dispell some confusion.

eh there is actually a codex entry that states maric died at sea though >_>

What?! Non-sense! I surely would have seen it.

-runs off to check-

What codex entry is it, I couldn't find anything about it.

[Sandtigress]

To get back to the original point of Utha's motivations, I think its kind of similar to the "ultimate conclusion' a lot of robot movies end up reaching. You know, the whole, "We need to protect humans...humans are a danger to themselves....therefore we can wipe out the humans and still follow our ultimate missive".



Grey Wardens take an oath to save humanity from the darkspawn. The darkspawn will always be about. The ultimate way to save the world from the darkspawn is to turn people into a form where they will no longer be in danger from the darkspawn. It isn't so far-fetched, though most people would see the illogic behind the plan.



As far as Utha's actions in the end, she might be seeing it one of a few ways. 1) Genevieve and Bregan pulled a Jory. They didn't have the guts to go through with the plan in its entirety, so for the good of the plan, they had to be killed. Regretful but necessary. 2) The plan falls under the "whatever is necessary' motto of the Wardens. Some sacrifices might be necessary. She might just believe in things so wholeheartedly that she's willing to see the deaths of former friends to see it accomplished. In that, she would be like Loghain.



Heh, see why I always end up sparing the guy if Riordan keeps talking? I can find justification for nearly everyone's motives....

[Addai]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Well, to be honest, my main reason for thinking that he isn't Fiona's son is because he isn't a mage and I don't like the idea of Maric killing the pregnant servant and her baby (like Freckles said).

?!!  Why would Maric have to kill a servant girl and her baby?!  The way I picture it is that he asks around and Eamon knows of a servant woman who recently died in childbirth, and this is how they pass Alistair off as that woman's child.

As for being child of a mage, Alistair is a templar, and they use limited magic.  Mage talents are genetic but not all descendants of mages become mages themselves, as evidenced by Isolde.

I'm definitely on Team Fiona.  Going to be quite disappointed if she's not the babymama!

[Cuddlezarro]

hmmm seems I was wrong I thought I remember reading about him dying in his own codex entry but it seems it doesnt which is odd you would think the kings own codex entry would talk about how he died oh well sorry about that