Before you post I want you to know that I love the quarians. They reflect many of the things I like about myself, as well as many of my interests. This isn't a bashing thread.
The geth and quarian conflict was started by the quarians, we can all agree on that I hope. The quarians reacted to the fact that the geth had achieved sapience by attempting to deactivate, permanently, all geth systems. This is what's called genocide, and completely unacceptable (unless you are a ****, in which case you think it is perfectly acceptable). The geth responded in kind, decimating the quarian population. they got exactly what they were trying to do to the geth. Thus, they got what they deserved.
That's my train of logic, convoluted as it is.
The quarians got exactly what they deserved
Débuté par
GuardianAngel470
, mars 07 2010 07:10
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#2
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:12
applehug
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Except the Geth are machines and have no feelings or emotions.
#3
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:12
Collider
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I don't think they deserved it. The Quarians were too hasty, but assuredly a lot of innocents Quarian and Geths died as a result of the war. It is extremely unfair to say that an entire race of people deserve the consequences of actions made by probably only a few people.
As an addition, deactivation is NOT genocide. Destroying all geth would be.
As an addition, deactivation is NOT genocide. Destroying all geth would be.
Modifié par Collider, 07 mars 2010 - 07:12 .
#4
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:13
Commander Shepard
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I agree. If the geth are capable of a level of conciousness that makes them self aware, then they are pretty much an artificial species. The Quarians struck first. Its their fault. There is a conversation about this in Mass Effect 1 between Tali and Shepard
#5
Guest_Guest12345_*
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:13
Guest_Guest12345_*
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so easy to be a paragon when the synthetic AIs aren't real. when the machine uprising really does happen i will be making the first renegade interrupt option available.
#6
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:15
Commander Shepard
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Collider wrote...
I don't think they deserved it. The Quarians were too hasty, but assuredly a lot of innocents Quarian and Geths died as a result of the war. It is extremely unfair to say that an entire race of people deserve the consequences of actions made by probably only a few people.
As an addition, deactivation is NOT genocide. Destroying all geth would be.
Deactivation is pretty much a death sentence for a machine and of course the innocents didnt deserve it
#7
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:15
Never-Red
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Well when ever I think of the Quarians I just think of Battlestar Galactica. Basically the same story almost word for word.
#8
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:15
Collider
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Basically, there were misunderstandings on both sides. The Quarians just thought they were shutting down faulty hardware. The Geth instead probably used survival programming and reasoned that it would be best to kill all of these quarians in order to survive. Neither were justified. It is very disgusting to say that an entire people deserve to get slaughtered just because of likely a few individuals.
#9
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:17
Collider
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Commander Shepard wrote...
Collider wrote...
I don't think they deserved it. The Quarians were too hasty, but assuredly a lot of innocents Quarian and Geths died as a result of the war. It is extremely unfair to say that an entire race of people deserve the consequences of actions made by probably only a few people.
As an addition, deactivation is NOT genocide. Destroying all geth would be.
Deactivation is pretty much a death sentence for a machine and of course the innocents didnt deserve it
No it isn't. Deactivation does not rule out reactivation. Just as you deactivate or shut down your computer, you can turn it back on. Plus, that's not how the Geth work. They have something similar to a collective conscious. Legion could be "destroyed," but as long as there is a suitable terminal around him he could upload himself to the data bank and then reupload himself to another geth body.
#10
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:17
superimposed
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applehug wrote...
Except the Geth are machines and have no feelings or emotions.
Actually, they were capable of Abstract thought, and fought back against their Masters to survive. Both of those are indications of emotions and feelings.
So laaaaawl.
#11
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:18
Saurel
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Not enough info imo to decide.
More details on how the war played exactly would be needed , I think; as well as why there is such a stigma against AI in the ME verse (which seems to be a given in ME1, but we aren't given much reason; but there seems to be an assumption they will go HAL on your ass).
Considering Shepards reaction to Hackett with the simulation on Luna and that odd credit stealing AI on the Citadel.
More details on how the war played exactly would be needed , I think; as well as why there is such a stigma against AI in the ME verse (which seems to be a given in ME1, but we aren't given much reason; but there seems to be an assumption they will go HAL on your ass).
Considering Shepards reaction to Hackett with the simulation on Luna and that odd credit stealing AI on the Citadel.
#12
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:18
GuardianAngel470
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Collider wrote...
I don't think they deserved it. The Quarians were too hasty, but assuredly a lot of innocents Quarian and Geths died as a result of the war. It is extremely unfair to say that an entire race of people deserve the consequences of actions made by probably only a few people.
As an addition, deactivation is NOT genocide. Destroying all geth would be.
The problem with your last point is that it is stated (i cant remember by whom) that the geth were going to be deactivated PERMANENTLY which is the synthetic equivalent to death. Most likely the quarians would study what happened then delete all geth programs, which definitely means death.
And just because a race doesn't have feelings (which is actually in question, edi sure seems to care about joker and legion sure seems to look up to and admire shep) doesn't mean that it isn't entitled to the rights of life. The geth knew that if they didn't act they would be wiped out, and in their retaliation they gave the quarians a taste of their own medicine.
And the quarians I am refering to are the Morning war quarians, not the migrant fleet quarians.
#13
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:19
GuardianAngel470
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Saurel wrote...
Not enough info imo to decide.
More details on how the war played exactly would be needed , I think; as well as why there is such a stigma against AI in the ME verse (which seems to be a given in ME1, but we aren't given much reason; but there seems to be an assumption they will go HAL on your ass).
Considering Shepards reaction to Hackett with the simulation on Luna and that odd credit stealing AI on the Citadel.
As far as I knew the stigma exists because of the geth.
#14
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:19
superimposed
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Collider wrote...
Commander Shepard wrote...
Collider wrote...
I don't think they deserved it. The Quarians were too hasty, but assuredly a lot of innocents Quarian and Geths died as a result of the war. It is extremely unfair to say that an entire race of people deserve the consequences of actions made by probably only a few people.
As an addition, deactivation is NOT genocide. Destroying all geth would be.
Deactivation is pretty much a death sentence for a machine and of course the innocents didnt deserve it
No it isn't. Deactivation does not rule out reactivation. Just as you deactivate or shut down your computer, you can turn it back on. Plus, that's not how the Geth work. They have something similar to a collective conscious. Legion could be "destroyed," but as long as there is a suitable terminal around him he could upload himself to the data bank and then reupload himself to another geth body.
So It's okay to shoot someone out the front of a hospital, because they can just go in and get patched up?
#15
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:20
Saurel
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GuardianAngel470 wrote...
Saurel wrote...
Not enough info imo to decide.
More details on how the war played exactly would be needed , I think; as well as why there is such a stigma against AI in the ME verse (which seems to be a given in ME1, but we aren't given much reason; but there seems to be an assumption they will go HAL on your ass).
Considering Shepards reaction to Hackett with the simulation on Luna and that odd credit stealing AI on the Citadel.
As far as I knew the stigma exists because of the geth.
I believe part of the reason the Citadel not helping the Quarians out had to do that AI research was outlawed and the quarians had broken that law.
#16
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:21
thegreateski
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*Sigh*
Nobody deserves death.
If they're dead then you can't torture them.
Nobody deserves death.
If they're dead then you can't torture them.
#17
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:21
GuardianAngel470
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Collider wrote...
Basically, there were misunderstandings on both sides. The Quarians just thought they were shutting down faulty hardware. The Geth instead probably used survival programming and reasoned that it would be best to kill all of these quarians in order to survive. Neither were justified. It is very disgusting to say that an entire people deserve to get slaughtered just because of likely a few individuals.
The few individuals concept is mistaken. It was a species wide consensus that deactivating the geth was the right thing to do.
#18
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:21
Tyreal42a
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I wonder if Bioware intended to vilify the Quarians. From what we knew in ME1, they messed up, yes, but the Geth are basically an a quest for organic genocide. So it's easy to side with the Quarians. Suddenly, in ME2, it was all the 'bad Geth's fault' and the real Geth are shining innocent victims in the encounter.
Maybe in ME3 we'll receive new information that will further complicate matters and it won't be so black and white.
Maybe in ME3 we'll receive new information that will further complicate matters and it won't be so black and white.
#19
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:21
Collider
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Never said anything like that. What I did say was that deactivation was not equal to murder. Your analogy is very flawed. Shooting someone is wounding them. Turning off your computer is not damaging or wounding your computer.superimposed wrote...
So It's okay to shoot someone out the front of a hospital, because they can just go in and get patched up?
#20
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:22
GuardianAngel470
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thegreateski wrote...
*Sigh*
Nobody deserves death.
If they're dead then you can't torture them.
Exactly my thoughts on the Turian Councilor. I'll make him pay for getting billions killed, you'll see. and it won't be pretty.
#21
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:23
GuardianAngel470
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Collider wrote...
Never said anything like that. What I did say was that deactivation was not equal to murder. Your analogy is very flawed. Shooting someone is wounding them. Turning off your computer is not damaging or wounding your computer.superimposed wrote...
So It's okay to shoot someone out the front of a hospital, because they can just go in and get patched up?
In this case deactivation is equal to murder. I just replayed ME1 and tali tells you specifically that the order sent out across all the colonies was to PERMANENTLY deactivate all geth. Permanent deactivation=death.
#22
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:23
applehug
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superimposed wrote...
applehug wrote...
Except the Geth are machines and have no feelings or emotions.
Actually, they were capable of Abstract thought, and fought back against their Masters to survive. Both of those are indications of emotions and feelings.
So laaaaawl.
No it doesn't. If you corner a wild animal it will fight back. This doesn't prove it has emotions or feelings.
#23
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:24
Collider
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I'm very doubtful that they all attempted and had the means to deactivate the geth. I'm sure most of the Japanese civilians in Hiroshima were not of high opinion of the United States but the nuclear attacks on Japan are still not a black and white issue.GuardianAngel470 wrote...
The few individuals concept is mistaken. It was a species wide consensus that deactivating the geth was the right thing to do.
#24
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:24
madisk
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You can't condemn an entire race because a ruling clique made the wrong decision.
CITATION NEEDED
GuardianAngel470 wrote...
The few individuals concept is mistaken. It was a species wide consensus that deactivating the geth was the right thing to do.
CITATION NEEDED
Modifié par madisk, 07 mars 2010 - 07:25 .
#25
Posté 07 mars 2010 - 07:26
superimposed
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madisk wrote...
You can't condemn an entire race because a ruling clique made the wrong decision.GuardianAngel470 wrote...
The few individuals concept is mistaken. It was a species wide consensus that deactivating the geth was the right thing to do.
CITATION NEEDED
You can. When they make no effort to stop it, they are as equally to blame.
