158 réponses à ce sujet

[SirEmilCrane]

Choose the spacer background and War Hero. Nothing particularly traumatizing there.



Shepard is like a Space Marine from 40k, he does his job with zeal, going above and beyond the call of duty. Any mental issues are locked away in his brain behind mental barriers. Whatever goes on inside is for him to know and no one else to find out and he is all the more badass because of it.

[CaptainZaysh]

You're failing to take into account that the traumas you describe are largely a series of victories. Moreover, all but one of them took place over a period of weeks/months that culminated in Shepard literally saving billions of lives in a violent and cathartic showdown.



Plus, if you did play a Paragon in ME1 it's really easy to introduce a darker and more ruthless streak to your Shepard in ME2 if you so desire. Mine seemed a lot harder and more callous thanks to the Renegade interrupt system.

the scripting and writing and fails to display, effectively, the traumatized psychology, the malice and ruthlessness, the pain and anger, that the person that Commander Shepard really would display, given their life history to this point.

But not everyone who suffers trauma comes out traumatised, malicious, ruthless, hurting and angry. Some people go through much worse experiences with much less satisfying endings than Shepard's journey in Mass Effect 1, and on the other side of it are inspirational not wicked. Check out Victor Frankl (who survived Belsen) for an example of how not everybody who goes through trauma has to turn out like Jack.

[SLPr0]

SirEmilCrane wrote...

Choose the spacer background and War Hero. Nothing particularly traumatizing there.

Shepard is like a Space Marine from 40k, he does his job with zeal, going above and beyond the call of duty. Any mental issues are locked away in his brain behind mental barriers. Whatever goes on inside is for him to know and no one else to find out and he is all the more badass because of it.

I suppose thats a point of view but given my own military experience and the men I knew and served with, guys who'd fought as far back as Vietnam up to the wars of today....I just find John Shepard unbelievably resilient.

There is no pain, there are no regrets. He sucks down things that would haunt a real soldier for the rest of his life and just keeps on going.

To me its a character flaw, I suppose it could be viewed as a character strength though, a strength heretofore unseen in any specimen of humanity to date.

[StrykerMan]

I don't understand your point. How much "real life" time do you think passes in each of the Mass Effect games? Is our ~30hrs of game time supposed to be real time? Does it translate into a week or two? Either way, you don't think it's possible to suck it up for that amount of time when the fate of the galaxy is at stake?



Even if your point is valid, Shepard has plenty of time to have nervous breakdowns etc. when he's off camera between games.



Oh and....

[Darkened Dragon]

Well think on how this is a RPG, the emotional well being of the character is supposed to be imagined and felt by the player that's assuming the role. When the creators of the story impose the breaking down and giving up feelings they have to walk a very thin line. Bioware did well with pulling it off with the grounding scene in ME1. A good example of overdoing that fine line is FFVII. When Cloud gives up and Tifa, or is it Aeris sorry its been a very long time since I played that game, tries to help him. That scene played out to the point of "Ugh, lets get this over with so I can continue on please!!!" At least to me it did.



But now, also look to this as the trilogy it is. In most trilogies, the main character tends to follow suit with this line. Character is given a seemingly impossible task, in this case defeating Saren. Trials and tribulations happen causing said character to ponder if the task is worth the hassle, his breakdown of being grounded and unable to pursue given task. Epiphany and way show themselves and the character lunges at the task completing it, but given task is now leading to higher purposed task. End of 1st section of the trilogy. Beginning of 2nd section and the character powers through to not let the first section's breakdown happen lunging the best the character can through any obstacles in their path. This section is more action and bridge to the finale and climax. Character has an overly renewed purpose and heightened determination as they already accomplished what seemed impossible. Character crosses the bridge and this section ends, in this case taking the oncoming war to the Reapers at any cost. The next section is where the heavy emotional intrigue and true character comes out. Repressed emotions tend to start surfacing, character hit a potentially emotional crippling as revelations of all they have done come down with a seemingly backbreaking force onto the characters psychological shoulders. Friends, companions, loves, etc.. offer their ears, shoulders, and what not to help ease the burden of the protagonist so they can fulfill their duties and finish their task.



If ME plays true to the way most "epic trilogies" work then ME3 is where we will see the massive character development and Shepard's true spirit shine through.



But I do agree, the VO's of the Shepard characters could have been done a bit better with emotional pitching and less like tele-prompting or scripted reading.

[Halmiriliath]

I agree with Darkened Dragon's line of thinking - we can only hope that we can get more reflective (note: reflective, not angsty) moments in the third installment, with variations such as losing friends, growing up as an orphan on the streets of Earth or losing your parents to slavers being taken into account.

Although indications of Shepard's personal feelings and/or battles can be found in Mass Effect 2, what surprised me the most was the lack of on-screen reflection of his own death. 'Wait a minute, I died and you spent two years reconstructing me?! I've defied the laws of nature!' *cue Rocky theme tune* I was thinking that he/she would have at least some kind of identity crisis - not necessarily mission-breaking, but at least some proof of doubt in his/her own mind - because I think anyone else would in that situation.

Modifié par Halmiriliath, 07 mars 2010 - 04:32 .

[JeanLuc761]

I think Commander Shepard is portrayed well. Being a choice-driven RPG, most of the emotion Shepard should feel is left for the player to feel. This is great because it not only influences your decisions down the road, but it makes you feel like YOU are Shepard. While it would be nice to see the darker, more traumatized aspect of his personality, I can understand why Bioware hasn't really explored it. It's very difficult to have your character express emotion in any significant way because there's a good chance that it's not how the player would react.



Also, I gotta say it; I felt Mark Meer did an exceptional job with Shepard's voice acting in most parts, with only a handful of lines falling flat. Forgive me for saying this, but I cannot bring myself to play as a female Shepard. Jennifer Hale's voice inflections feel way too out of place and over-emphasized.

[SLPr0]

C-Sec Officer: Sorry Commander, our scanners seem to think you're dead.

Shepard: Yeah I've been getting that every where lately.

Stunning amounts of nearly delusional self assuredness. He's so sure of himself his own death hasn't even left a mark that bothers him.

As a writer, I'm not entirely sure I'd take this sequence of dialog and have Shepard break down and lose it. But to glibly just write off ones own return from the grave, is amazing.

The Renegade response is pretty much the same, just with some petty annoyance added to it.

The death of Shepard isn't even a crack in his psychology when faced with his former LI in Mass Effect, whether Ashley or Liara, theres just no cracks at all. The best we get is on Horizon...he comes off a little dissapointed after the meeting with Ashley. The meeting with Liara invokes like almost no emotion at all in regards to Shepards death, if she was your LI in Mass Effect the final part of the dialog after completing all her fetch and get side missions has her expressing more emotion over Shepards death than Shepard does in return.

[Azint]

Don't like it? Don't play it.

[Spectre 117]

SLPr0 wrote...

Really Seriously:

John Shepard:

• Survivor of the Mindoir Colony Raid
• Sole Survivor of the Akuz Incident
• Ruthless Operations Officer who killed hundreds at Torfan to get the job done
  
  Now we just start off with these basics, not even taking into account his birth place and upbringing, these three starting character points paint a man who has become a soldier and has deep scars marring his psychology. How he would deal with them is a matter of theory crafting though because John Shepard is quite possibly the most well balanced person in the history of video games regardless of these three formational trauma's that "build" his "character".
  
  To steal a line from the "Ah yes....Reapers" thread....I will have to say here "Ah yes....character".
  
  John Shepard has no character. Throughout all his interactions, whether Paragon or Renegade his depth, even with his face fully exposed is so shallow and unexpressive that you could almost say that Master Chief from the Halo franchise had more character depth and Master Chief was more or less just a walking suit of armor toting a gun.
  
  So we go on, John Shepard also continues in his journey to add the following psychologically transformational events to his resume:
  
  
• Rescues the Colony of Eden Prime from a Geth Invasion led by Saren Arturius
• Becomes imprinted by a Prothean Beacon
• Fights the Council for the disbarrment of Saren Arturius from the Spectres
• Exposes the treachery of Saren Arturius to the Council and becomes a Spectre
• Saves/Destroys the colony on Feros while investigating a Geth attack
• Becomes imprinted with the Prothean Cipher
• Frees/Kills Shiala
• Frees/Kills the Rachnai Queen at Noveria
• Frees/Kills the Mining Operations Team at Asteroid X57
• Saves/Kills Wrex at Virmire
• Is imprinted again by a Prothean Beacon at Virmire
• Speaks to Sovereign(Nazara) at Virmire
• Sacrifices Kaiden or Ashley at Virmire
• Drives a Mako through a Mass Relay at Ilos traveling thousands of light years across the galaxy in a ground vehicle
• Defeats Saren Arturius at the Citadel Tower/Defeats Saren-Soveriegn at the Citadel Tower
• Saves/Sacrifices the Council of the Citadel
• Dies approximately two months and four weeks after the events of the Battle of the Citadel to decompression and re-entry trauma.
  
  Now, wow, you add that list of stuff to the starting three and you get a pretty complex and deep guy, or so you'd think. But...no, not really, John gets revived by the Lazarus project, quite literally coming back from death and other than some unhealed scarring, hes as well balanced as ever, right on point....give him a gun and get back to fixing the galaxy.
  
  On the Paragon side of things, John is so untraumatized by everything hes experienced up to this point that he could literally be called delusional or insane. Sitting around on the Citadel making jokes about software with a sales rep, giving endorsements....and largely completely non-plussed, psychologically, from everything hes experienced. Even on the Renegade side of actions, he shows very little depth, his level of malice is petty annoyance, the only place he really shows ANY emotion at all is telling off the C-Sec officer and the Volus for harassing the Quarian girl in the Credit Chit side mission....and thats a Paragon action.
  
  The game, and characters often make references to how strong willed John Shepard must be, but this really goes beyond that to the point of nearly unbelievable. There is some CGI art of Shepard which made me consider that the depth behind the character is completely missing in the experience of playing the character himself.
  
  
  
  This image here shows more depth in its CGI rendering, to the John Shepard character, than the character itself does anywhere in Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2, and given Mark Meer's rather bland, generic male voice acting, the character itself completely falls flat on its face in comparison to the absolute bouquet of varieties of personality that John Shepard's companions bring to the table.
  
  Mark Meer's VO work on this project has been substantial, its not something that can be changed, but I can say, without a doubt, that given the pull BioWare has had of late pulling in substantially good voice actors, while it makes sense to carry him over for the continuity, it did the character no favors at all.
  
  Shepard as presented and voiced by Mark Meer, in comparison to his companions and even non-companion characters in Mass Effect/Mass Effect 2, is like....putting Mark Meer next to....Al Pacino, the personalities and depths of Shepards companions are so loud and powerful and compelling, and Shepard is their "leader" but comes off, really, as the wall flower of the entire bunch.
  
  Now I'm not asking for BioWare to switch voice actors mid stream, that would hardly do the game any justice, and I'm not saying that I want an emo/grief ridden Shepard trying to save the universe in between sessions with his therapist.
  
  But, given the Commanders resume up to this point, I'd expect more than a robot, or a guy that seems to be on a really good Prozac dosage. He should have scars, he should have depths....and I just see none.
  
  Jennifer Hale puts more into Commander Shepard than Mark Meer does, as far as voice acting goes, but is limited, again, by the scripting and writing and fails to display, effectively, the traumatized psychology, the malice and ruthlessness, the pain and anger, that the person that Commander Shepard really would display, given their life history to this point.
  
  So with that said, I now introduce my official signature, doesn't stop Mass Effect from being a great franchise and a great game....cause it is quite epic as games go, but, as main character heroes go....Commander John Shepard has to go down in gaming history as the least believable protaganist in the history of all writing ever. Everything that has happened to him just runs right through his head and leaves no marks at all.
  
  It is, really, rather unbelievable, when it comes down to it.
  
  EDIT: Fixing horrible formatting problems...my bad...I think.

[*]If you think shepard isnt an interesting character as the protagonist then you my friend have not played dragon age.......XD

[SLPr0]

Azint wrote...

Don't like it? Don't play it.

Uh, yes, this is the solution. I really love the whole game I just think the main character is a bit off since he doesn't react to anything that happens to him....so I'll just not play the game.

Troll elsewhere please.

[SLPr0]

Spectre 117 wrote...
[*]If you think shepard isnt an interesting character as the protagonist then you my friend have not played dragon age.......XD

Oh I agree hes a got more depth than the Grey Warden but the Grey Warden wasn't voiced at all, so comparatively to the Grey Warden's companions the Grey Warden is like furniture thats just around to set off conversation sequences. So yes John Shepard > Grey Warden in regards to character depth, but thats not saying much.

[MrBeardface]

Do remember that when we see Shepard it is in action, around his squad, that sort of thing. Situations where - whatever he feels inside - outwardly he would have to maintain a strong appearance.



Also, as many have pointed out, I am unsure just how possible it is to give Shepard more depth without impacting the player's freedom of choice.

[RayneMoon]

Yeah I really have to agree, if I'm going to be emotionally involved with my Shepard then I really would like to understand them a little bit more.
I wish someone would bring up a personality trait of some kind other than the morality scale or being "strong willed" because you keep cheating death.
Any of these would appreciated:
http://en.wikipedia....onality_Factors

Modifié par RayneMoon, 08 mars 2010 - 03:16 .

[Never-Red]

To be honest I only had this problem with Male Shepard. Switching to female Shepard fixed that problem for me.



Mark Meer is a robot.



but to be fair alot of this is the direction the VA's of shepard are told to take. They aren't supposed to portray too much emotion because its you who plays the character and is molding the character through your actions. A little extra emotion may ruin the moment for some players who may have a different shepard in mind.

[Chamberboozer]

I agree with the OP entirelly. Shepard's emotions should be explored a lot in ME3 since the second game was about his teammates.

Here's a thread I made about it yesterday. http://social.biowar...5/index/1599898

Modifié par Chamberboozer, 08 mars 2010 - 02:47 .

[Tinnic]

While post-traumatic stress syndrome is pretty prevalent among military men and women, not everybody suffers from it. Some people simply able to compartmentalise trauma better then others. Shepard may well be on the autism spectrum and as such systemizes emotions more so then others. I also think it is a bit cliche that all heros with trauma in their past has to be tortured. Some people go through a lot of pain in their life but don't necessarily fall apart over it.

In addition, we have only seen Shepard in the midst of emergency. Often, in these situations, the emotional analysis is differed. Perhaps when all this is over and Shepard gets a chance to sit down and think, then, maybe she'll show the emotion she isn't right now.

I don't think it makes Shepard less interesting. I just think its what stands Shepard out of the pack. I mean, Heros are not normal people. Why would they react like normal people?

Modifié par Tinnic, 08 mars 2010 - 03:00 .

[Spectre 117]

I think in part having to make him more complex would take the focus away from the real threat.Anothe factor nay be that Bioware just wants to make a badass hero but ill give you a few examples of super guys that people admire thought they are shallow....Master Chief,Marcus Fenix,Link,Mario,etc.I know your point and it is a very valid one but i guess they just dont have a way to make him depth without taking away the liberty of the player :l

[Merilsell]

Yeah, I think it's a bit lackluster too but hell, that's what fanfiction are made for *shrugs*

[TheBestClass]

I'll admit I didn't read all that but I just thought I'd say this: Garrus is basically the more interesting version of Shepard. He's not so absolute in his morals like Shepard has to be. That is all.

[SLPr0]

Tinnic wrote...

While post-traumatic stress syndrome is pretty prevalent among military men and women, not everybody suffers from it. Some people simply able to compartmentalise trauma better then others. Shepard may well be on the autism spectrum and as such systemizes emotions more so then others. I also think it is a bit cliche that all heros with trauma in their past has to be tortured. Some people go through a lot of pain in their life but don't necessarily fall apart over it.

In addition, we have only seen Shepard in the midst of emergency. Often, in these situations, the emotional analysis is differed. Perhaps when all this is over and Shepard gets a chance to sit down and think, then, maybe she'll show the emotion she isn't right now.

I don't think it makes Shepard less interesting. I just think its what stands Shepard out of the pack. I mean, Heros are not normal people. Why would they react like normal people?

Your psychological analysis isn't off, I agree, given my own experiences in combat that when you are in the middle of life threatening situations it is nearly second nature for most competent soldiers to defer emotional reactivity in favor of straight logical threat analysis. This is normal. But I've seen guys drop their ****...sorry to use the word but thats what its reffered to as.

Not everyone is made of the kind of stuff that it takes to defer their fears in an emergency. John Shepard is obviously a pinnacle of soldiery, and I'm not asking him to fall apart....I'm just asking him to actually realize the things that have occured to him. He's not just comparmentalizing emotions in emergencies hes got his entire personality locked behind doors in his brain and its all go, no quit, lets save the universe marine!

Hard to visualize a person like this, in reality, I've never met one.

[Soma Holiday]

My femshep character is my favorite character in the entire series. I have only ever played as her. She IS commander Shepard...so obviously that made an impression on me. Sure, she could be fleshed out a little more, but because I am making her decisions, I end up filling the gaps...plain and simple.

[CommanderTravis]

You think shepards uninteresting?
Choose different dialogue options

[Jackal904]

InvaderErl wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Play as a Femshep. Much more believable.

You obviously did not read his post as he brought FemShep up and said she failed to effectively portray the character as well.

I think they both do a very good job, so... ya.

Modifié par Jackal904, 08 mars 2010 - 03:26 .

[Big I]

I disagree. I play as Colonist Sole Survivor, and reliving the trauma of his family's death with Talitha? Meeting Toombs again? That was all heavy duty emotional stuff. As for what Shepard's done in-game, look at the Thane romance conclusion. Look at his speech to the Flotilla for Tali. All stuff that points to a deeply emotional character.



Depending on how Shepard is played, you can see a wide range of emotions: disgust at the Genophage, anger at the Illusive Man, tenderness towards the LI, and many more. You can play as a Paragon that deeply cares for the suffering of innocent people, or a Renegade who is infuriated at the failure of government to do what must be done.



I have never felt that Shepard acts without emotion, no matter what the outcome you choose.